[medphysdave]

I did a 1 day M school at the performance center in SC. We got to beat on the cars quite a bit (M3 and m4). I would consider the courses very short. Lots of hard on/off throttle. Cars were left with traction control on. Sport plus for settings. Transmission was on level 3. At the beginning of the day and runs I thought they did quite well. Shifts were quick and logic was reasonable. I kept it in auto mode because new track, new car, and not used to paddle shifting. I noticed the shift time falling off as the cars got hot. By the end of the medium track session the auto mode logic was terrible. The point was that these might be great for the average enthusiast that isn't beating on the car for an extended period of time.

With that said. How would I mitigate this issue? By the end of the first day I was comfortable enough with the M3 and m4 that I would have moved to manual shifting if I had a second day. The courses would be 2nd/3rd gear usage so minimizing shifts and better control. The whole day I felt like I was leaving time on the table with the trans in auto. I know these classes are relative regarding quickness as not everyone in the class is a track enthusiast or has experience. I was the quickest of the day on the timed short course and a second behind the instructor. (instructor was driving a lesser car)

[to_riffic]

I suppose that's why the F8x DCT's had specific transmission coolers for the auto? Maybe the ZF will get something similar

[Humdizzle]

its a cheap transmission. good fuel economy, high torque rating, and can fit in nearly any car. the e92 dct had trans overheat problems i think and they improved that in the f8x with coolers.

adding a trans cooler and maybe better trans fluid may help

[Jimjamz]

I spent a day a few months ago track driving the G8X M3 and M4 Comps. Both very competent cars, and both track beasts.

Drove to the track and back home in my DCT F87CS.

Next day placed an order on a manual 992 T.

It was all about the transmission. Couldn't see a ZF8 improving on the DCT (in fact I found it much less fun and engaging). Didn't want three dual clutches in the garage (getting a PDK Macan GTS in march) - so the 911 PDK was not an option. Just announced 911 T 7-speed manual FTW.

[Beenz]

Agree with others it won’t compare to the DCT.
I can only suggest next time, ditching auto mode for anything other than commuting and see if it’s different?
I remember doing a half day m drive day and started with similar thoughts to you- new car, unfamiliar with track, leave it in auto for a bit, right? Wrong, lasted about 1 lap and switched to manual mode.

[CarJunkie]

I drove a G series M4 at the Thermal performance center last year and was unimpressed with the transmission. The car was fast, but the shifts were sloppy and slow when shifting at redline. Driving to the paddock and back at normal speeds it seemed programmed to provide a little kick for effect, but that went away once it was under load at speed, probably because you just can't make a hydraulic connection do that. It probably did not effect performance, pretty sure there was never an interruption in power to the wheels, it just wasn't fun or engaging.

[to_riffic]

Originally Posted by CarJunkie

I drove a G series M4 at the Thermal performance center last year and was unimpressed with the transmission. The car was fast, but the shifts were sloppy and slow when shifting at redline. Driving to the paddock and back at normal speeds it seemed programmed to provide a little kick for effect, but that went away once it was under load at speed, probably because you just can't make a hydraulic connection do that. It probably did not effect performance, pretty sure there was never an interruption in power to the wheels, it just wasn't fun or engaging.

yup. i felt the same about the G80. transmission was meh, but the handling around the track was really capable considering the weight it's carrying...

[TargaM2]

ZF8 is the reason I won't be getting a G87 (along with a few other concerns).
After decades of buying manual trans performance cars (still got a couple) it was eye opening to experience the marvel of Dual clutch transmissions, we currently have 4 x performance cars with various brand dct's in the household & they are all fantastic with their true dual purpose ability.
Why BMW picked the dct to drop as part of their cost cutting is beyond me? All other manufacturers of performance cars are pushing forward with development/production of dct's, BMW really stuffed up badly with that decision imo.
The only torque converter trans cars I've owned were when I was into drag racing back in the 80's (extremely modified trans with hi-stall & manual change only) as they were the prerequisite for big hp drag cars at the time.
I've driven ZF8 equipped cars (with an open mind) & unfortunately they are still a slush box (albeit somewhat improved), which is fine for everyday commuting but has no business in a performance car IMO.

[medphysdave]

Originally Posted by to_riffic

yup. i felt the same about the G80. transmission was meh, but the handling around the track was really capable considering the weight it's carrying...

I really liked the balance of the M3. I preferred it over the M4. I'm willing to be the transmission issues would be less on a longer course with more time between brake and throttle. It just can't handle the rapid changes in speed.

We didn't do anything beyond the skid pad with the DCT M2. I'm good at 360s, not so much at drifting:P

[M5F90]

Originally Posted by CarJunkie

I drove a G series M4 at the Thermal performance center last year and was unimpressed with the transmission. The car was fast, but the shifts were sloppy and slow when shifting at redline. Driving to the paddock and back at normal speeds it seemed programmed to provide a little kick for effect, but that went away once it was under load at speed, probably because you just can't make a hydraulic connection do that. It probably did not effect performance, pretty sure there was never an interruption in power to the wheels, it just wasn't fun or engaging.

I understand you were talking about M3/M4 but when also saying "can't make hydraulic connection do that" you'd be surprised if you tried F90 M5 in D3 or S3 (after warming up of course). I was just blown away by ZF M8HP76 transmission.

[M5F90]

I also wanted to check what exact ZF model is in the new 2023/2024 M2?

[akkando]

Supposedly the g80 m3CS shifts faster, but I assume would get slow if it gets hot if that's an issue on zf8. I'm also guessing a transmission tune on a non CS zf8 could make it shift like a CS (until it's too hot)

[allinon72]

I went from F80 M3 to F97 X3M. I found the transmission to be decent for a torque converter but uninspiring compared to the DCT and about 7/10 as fast. S55 and DCT combo is what brought me to the M2.

[AlpsRider]

My experience with the ZF8 was that it's a great commuter and freeway warrior transmission. However, in the twisties when using a lot of power the shifts get softer and less positive. If you go into manual mode it starts to get frustrating when shifts just don't respond well, especially on downshift. It's still probably faster than shifting a 6mt, but not nearly as fun.

[medphysdave]

This is what I found. At the performance center I felt like the zf8 overheated easily and started to lag when shifting.

[Jimjamz]

I always drove the M2CS in manual mode with the DCT and am doing the same now in the G81. While the shifts are slower in the ZF8 they are serviceable.

However, in either car, unless I’m in heavy traffic or occasionally on the highway, I never have auto mode on. As good as it is, I always prefer deciding shift points. The auto just can’t read the road ahead (or your mind) and so while operating with insight, is never able to operate with foresight.

I can imagine a day in 10 years where with predictive or generative AI that foresight will be trained to your roads and style. But that day is not today.

[Davil]

Originally Posted by Jimjamz

I can imagine a day in 10 years where with predictive or generative AI that foresight will be trained to your roads and style. But that day is not today.

What a bleak future. I don’t have a commute so my driving is often just for mental therapy. What a sad day when that finally goes away. Then again. I might be too old to care by then. I feel so lucky being a Gen Xer.