[cplay4me]

@10"

Originally Posted by 10"

I owned a 135is before my 1M and have driven several M2s.

The 135is was a great car—-the steering is MILES better than any M2. It isn't as good as the 1M's steering but it was really good. I'd say the 135is steering was actually a little heavier than the 1M's—-but with a bigger dead spot. But even dead spots on these late hydraulic racks feel like an old school race car compared to the massive dead steering that happened in the M2.

The only thing I didn't like so much about the 135is is how unsettled the back end felt over the bumps and uneven roads. I suppose this is fixable with perhaps an LSD or adjusted suspension. But it's NOT an M car and M cars always feel so sorted out in the rear—especially something the M2 does quite well.

The 135is was really the same as the standard N55 135 but came with a package of options—-a really nice package but if you can find a cheaper standard 135 you can replicate it easily. The performance exhaust on the 135is is awesome—-quiet when needed, loud and popping off when caning it!! Sounds like popcorn popping! Lol

I do think the 135 was a way more fun car to drive than the several M2s I've driven just because it was way more engaging and simple. It was the last old school BMW driving experience before the computers took over—But it has its issues too like suspension and mediocre braking.

The manual transmission in the 135is is very similar or possibly the same unit as the M2. No major differences and it feels great.

It's easy to find regular 135s on the used market—-you should go drive one. The 135is largely is the same car with just some little options.

This is excellent input, thanks for taking the time to share.

I'd love to drive a 135i, but unfortunately in a relatively rural area (southern Oregon with about 220k people in my county). I haven't seen a 135i manual available for sale in my area for years.

Couple of questions for you:

1) I have a friend with a 128 automatic. Would this be worth driving to get a feel of the suspension and steering? I'm not sure how similar it is to 135.

2) I've considered a 1m as well, but have read to push, the require a high skill-level. I feel confident driving, but I'm certainly not an expert and would only be using the car on backroads.

I LOVE how the 1m looks and understand they are very rare. To you, is spending 70k+ on a 1m worth it over a 135i for ~25k with the ability to do $10k in mods?

Thanks again.

[tracer bullet]

Originally Posted by 10"

the steering is MILES better than any M2

OG M2, or the later M2 Comps? This questions is really for everyone.

I've had my 135i for like... 11 years. As I get older and as cars advance I get more and more appreciative of its analog feel is how I might put it. Given that 11 years is a long time with a single car I'm interested in a replacement, and unless the Z4 gets a manual very soon (unlikely) I'd say a low mile used M2 comp is the top replacement option. Not interested in the new M2, given what I like about my 135i I'm more than a little certain BMW has not tried to recapture its history with that car, if I wanted an M3/M4 I'd just get an M3/M4).

I've read that the M2CS has wonderful steering feedback and later that the M2 comp was actually set (coded, whatever) the same way, the only difference perhaps being in the M2CS's lower unsprung weight at each corner having an effect as well.

I swear that though the 135i is far from perfect and doesn't perform anywhere near an M2C level on the books (lap times, 1/4 mile, braking, g's). But what I love about the 135i is the tactile feeling through the steering wheel of what I'm driving on. No one loves potholes of course, but it's knowing just through your fingers on the wheel if you're driving on smooth asphalt, rocky asphalt, just went over a small patch of sand in a corner, and etc.

Curious if the M2C can do any of that? Or is it more like my X3 in that sense (2015, EPS, it's a 35i but still a kid hauler and grocery getter).

[cplay4me]

Originally Posted by tracer bullet

I've read that the M2CS has wonderful steering feedback and later that the M2 comp was actually set (coded, whatever) the same way, the only difference perhaps being in the M2CS's lower unsprung weight at each corner having an effect as well.

I had an e92 M3 before my OG M2. There are a lot of things I enjoy (they are REALLY different cars) about the M2 more, but one thing I miss is the hydraulic steering / steering feel of the M3. I miss that much more than I thought.

The OG m2 steering is OK, but certainly lacks the enjoyment of BMWs that had great hydraulic setups.

I've read you can code both the OG M2 and M2C with the steering from the CS, and the yes, it is a big improvement.

https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1541527

If I keep the M2, I will def. do that, along with strut brace replacement, stage 2 custom tune and ohlins.

Having never driven a 1 series, it's hard for me to tell exactly how they are different, but my gut says that while the new M2 is great, and really shines from a chassis standpoint above 80mph, a 135i with some choice mods may get you something comparable in the enjoyment department, albeit different, for a fraction of the cost.

I have not driven an M2C, but for around town, most of what I read and heard from users that compared the two was that the OG m2 is better out of the box. Track is a different story, but if I was headed to the track, I honestly may not choose BMW anyway...

I'm afraid everything is getting fat and bloated and losing some of the tangible and intangible enjoyment.

I'd still love an answer to my question above from 10"

[tracer bullet]

Originally Posted by cplay4me

I'm afraid everything is getting fat and bloated and losing some of the tangible and intangible enjoyment.

First, thanks for the thoughtful reply.

My 1-er has a lot I've done to it over the years, nothing stupid, but the typical things. CDV delete, arms swapped for M3 bits, RSFB (rear subframe bushings) also swapped, it's got a factory short shifter, I've got good brakes, light wheels, sticky tires, and so on. It'd get its ass handed to it on a track vs. an M2C of course but for a daily driver in open areas / twisties (when no one's around to get hurt if I manage to slide off the road) it's a hoot.

I'm betting I just need to drive an M2C and compare. But of course on a cold gray Sunday afternoon with yardwork to be avoided I'm certainly interested in what others who own / owned either or both think about the differences.

[10"]

Originally Posted by cplay4me

@10"

This is excellent input, thanks for taking the time to share.

I'd love to drive a 135i, but unfortunately in a relatively rural area (southern Oregon with about 220k people in my county). I haven't seen a 135i manual available for sale in my area for years.

Couple of questions for you:

1) I have a friend with a 128 automatic. Would this be worth driving to get a feel of the suspension and steering? I'm not sure how similar it is to 135.

2) I've considered a 1m as well, but have read to push, the require a high skill-level. I feel confident driving, but I'm certainly not an expert and would only be using the car on backroads.

I LOVE how the 1m looks and understand they are very rare. To you, is spending 70k+ on a 1m worth it over a 135i for ~25k with the ability to do $10k in mods?

Thanks again.

to answer your question YES a 128i will have the same steering rack as a 135 but just a warning the whole car may feel a little bit lighter and more agile due to less weight around the front. But otherwise it will be VERY similar! Worth trying for sure.

The 1M is a sketchy little thing to drive, it is setup quite aggressively stock—BUT once you put enough miles on it, it becomes more understandable and predictable. I have over 100,000 miles on mine and have really learned MOST of its behaviour patterns!

I personally think the 135 is about 85% of the 1M for most drivers. It lacks the planted feel of the E9X chassis components and slip differential but I think overall it's a very enjoyable car to drive.

I paid $51k for my 1M in 2013 and have put a LOT of miles on it. Was it worth it for me? YES. Is it worth spending $70k on a 1M these days? Only if it's your "dream car" and you have the $$$ and are going to drive the hell out of it! Otherwise I'd say the 135 is a more sensible buy OR keeping an M2!

[10"]

Originally Posted by tracer bullet

OG M2, or the later M2 Comps? This questions is really for everyone.

I've had my 135i for like... 11 years. As I get older and as cars advance I get more and more appreciative of its analog feel is how I might put it. Given that 11 years is a long time with a single car I'm interested in a replacement, and unless the Z4 gets a manual very soon (unlikely) I'd say a low mile used M2 comp is the top replacement option. Not interested in the new M2, given what I like about my 135i I'm more than a little certain BMW has not tried to recapture its history with that car, if I wanted an M3/M4 I'd just get an M3/M4).

I've read that the M2CS has wonderful steering feedback and later that the M2 comp was actually set (coded, whatever) the same way, the only difference perhaps being in the M2CS's lower unsprung weight at each corner having an effect as well.

I swear that though the 135i is far from perfect and doesn't perform anywhere near an M2C level on the books (lap times, 1/4 mile, braking, g's). But what I love about the 135i is the tactile feeling through the steering wheel of what I'm driving on. No one loves potholes of course, but it's knowing just through your fingers on the wheel if you're driving on smooth asphalt, rocky asphalt, just went over a small patch of sand in a corner, and etc.

Curious if the M2C can do any of that? Or is it more like my X3 in that sense (2015, EPS, it's a 35i but still a kid hauler and grocery getter).

I have not driven an M2 CS but I have driven an OG M2 and an M2 Competition and I was pretty disappointed in the lack of steering feel in both of those.

I am glad the F87 M2 exists and am aware that the whole car industry really switched towards an electronic steering adoption around that time so I'm not sure this should be totally held against the M2—it is what it is

The M2C felt better, steering wise, than the OG M2 but neither one of them felt very connected to me. I don't think the 1M is the 'best' steering car in history or anything but it always always always feels connected mechanically. My 135 had that same feel too. When these cars twitch it transmits through the steering in a way that an electronic steering rack simply cannot replicate, no matter how good it is. When I drove a 991 GTS—-I felt the same problem. It feels like technology is helping you get a result, instead of feeling like YOU are doing it.

There are other things the M2 does quite well, like feel secure (uhhh the 1M doesn't always feel secure lol), brake better, have a more sorted out suspension and rear end—but those things are a matter of taste.

Last thing that the 1M has this reputation of being able to lose control abruptly—but I felt that same thing in the 135 albeit a little bit more differently. The 135 also had an abrupt point at which the rear swings out—I never felt that on a 228, OG M2 or M2C I've driven, they were far more predictable IMO.

[tracer bullet]

Originally Posted by 10"

...I have driven an OG M2 and an M2 Competition and I was pretty disappointed in the lack of steering feel in both of those...

...There are other things the M2 does quite well...

Thanks, was hoping you'd answer as well. I get it - trade-offs, always.

I'll keep an eye out for an M2C manual locally and if one pops up will have to go drive it. I've been a car guy for decades, I think I'll know pretty fast if it "does it" for me. I'll be sure I have finances ready haha as I'm fairly sure it will.

[10"]

Originally Posted by tracer bullet

Thanks, was hoping you'd answer as well. I get it - trade-offs, always.

I'll keep an eye out for an M2C manual locally and if one pops up will have to go drive it. I've been a car guy for decades, I think I'll know pretty fast if it "does it" for me. I'll be sure I have finances ready haha as I'm fairly sure it will.

Ah yeah it's the only way to know for sure! We hear a lot of chatter online about peoples opinions but all that matters is what you think!

when I went to go buy my 1M the guy at the dealer said "no 1M test drives everyone asks us" and I said to them "did everyone drive 2.5 hours with money in hand ready to buy it?" And they let me test drive it—-and I bought it

[BMW003E]

For what it's worth, I had both a E92M3 and 135is (convertible) at the same time and now have a M2C and M2CS. The 135is was a blast to drive, even with the soft top. However, when I took the M3 out, it was something special on a completely different level (the S65 was just a sublime engine, even if it didn't have the low down torque). It was much more settled than the 135is at most speeds, but the 135is had the low down torque that was easier to use from the start. Unfortunately, we got a point in our lives when the 135is needed to go (no way was I going to let the M3 go at that time), but I did miss it from time to time.

I feel that the M2CS is just as special as the E92M3 (that one was eventually sold, for which I now have some regrets). Not wanting to daily the M2CS, I found a reasonably priced '19 M2C that checks almost all of the boxes. It is not as special as the E92 or the CS, but it is still a lot of fun to drive. In some respects, I think the 135is has a more mechanical feel than the M2C but the power and handling of the latter should not be overlooked (of course, it is a newer platform). However, I no longer miss the 135is now that I have the M2C.

Ultimately, it's your money and what you value in a car. I personally don't think you can go wrong with any of the choices. They are all great cars.