08-19-2020, 04:12 PM | #67 | |
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I really want a 718 Spyder, but the BGTS 4.0 might be the sweet spot in the 718 range. The 4.0L F-6 definitely sounds muted in videos compared to my 3.4, but I am assuming that can be addressed with a cat-back system. The US version isn't supposed to have the particulate filters, which I assume would make the exhaust more exciting. I have a buddy who just took delivery of his GT4, and can't wait to hear it in person.
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Past rides: 2016 981 BGTS, 2020 MINI JCW, 2017 F80, 2015 981 CS, 2014 F22 235, 2011 E82 135, 2008 E82 135, 2007 E92 328, 2007 E92 328 (My lady drives an OG M2. So does my dad)
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08-20-2020, 03:55 AM | #68 | |
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08-20-2020, 07:18 AM | #69 | ||
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08-20-2020, 09:58 AM | #70 | ||
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I would say drive one of you aren't sure.
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Wife's Car: 2020 X4M Competition, Alpine White on Black Alcantara and Biege
Current Car: 2018 F80 M3CS, SMB, DCT, ZEC, MPE Recently Departed: 2020 F87 M2C, LBB, ZEC, 6MT (Euro Delivery Aug. 29, 2019, totaled by an idiot in a Camry who then ran from the scene) Wife's Prior Car: 2018 F80 M3, Yas Marina Blue, DCT, Black 19s, Carbon Structure Anthracite Cloth/Leather Combination, Driving Assistance Package (Euro Delivery Oct. 9, 2017) |
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08-20-2020, 12:32 PM | #72 | |
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The M2C's S55 just felt so different than my F80 ZCP. It felt somewhat stronger than our OG M2, but not hugely so if that makes sense. I am wondering if that's the source of the "laggy" feel. I wouldn't describe it as laggy - more that the F80 tune (or M2 CS tune) feels much more savage in nature. Curious what your thoughts are on that front...
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Past rides: 2016 981 BGTS, 2020 MINI JCW, 2017 F80, 2015 981 CS, 2014 F22 235, 2011 E82 135, 2008 E82 135, 2007 E92 328, 2007 E92 328 (My lady drives an OG M2. So does my dad)
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08-20-2020, 01:20 PM | #73 | |
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I am curious about this topic. From an overall power perspective, I cannot imagine the M2C needing anymore power. Even in MDM mode, the wheels are constantly spinning. Requires some attention, but not like I am all over the road. Still, not sure what I would do with anymore power? How much does anyone want to spin the wheels? I have driven F80/F82 on several occasions but never owned one. Not being my own vehicles, I never drove them like I owned them . . . and do not recall an appreciably significant difference from my M2C experience. Getting to the point, the one thing I can complain about with the M2C is the early onset of peak power, occurring shortly after 5K RPM. I rarely feel compelled to get beyond of 2nd or 3rd gears and would really enjoy pull to red line like I get with my 718 CGTS. My understanding is the BootMod3 CS and CS+ tunes are a perfect solution for what I am describing. Really no significant power gains but offer peak power up near red line. I am curious if your described experience with the F80/F82 is related more to where peak power occurs in relation to red line, overall power, or both? Of note, as much as I am interested in what the BM3 CS and CS+ tunes are claimed to offer, I am not interested in removing my ECU, mailing it out for bench break-in . . . nor the inability to have BMW updates applied without having to repeat process down the road. ///AVM |
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08-20-2020, 01:34 PM | #74 | ||
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One thing I will add is that I also attribute a lot of the F80's savagery to the slight turbo lag when you get on the throttle in efficient or sport mode (like when trying to get out of a situation or change lanes quickly or make a left turn etc). There is an annoying half a second to a second pause, then all the power hits you like a ton of bricks. That doesn't really happen in the M2C for me (though it's been a while since I've driven the F80). It usually goes like normal when I need it to regardless of the gear or throttle position (other than 6th gear at 30mph). There isn't a lag as much as a linear build up like on an NA car, which the normal F80 and F80 ZCP didn't have.
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Wife's Car: 2020 X4M Competition, Alpine White on Black Alcantara and Biege
Current Car: 2018 F80 M3CS, SMB, DCT, ZEC, MPE Recently Departed: 2020 F87 M2C, LBB, ZEC, 6MT (Euro Delivery Aug. 29, 2019, totaled by an idiot in a Camry who then ran from the scene) Wife's Prior Car: 2018 F80 M3, Yas Marina Blue, DCT, Black 19s, Carbon Structure Anthracite Cloth/Leather Combination, Driving Assistance Package (Euro Delivery Oct. 9, 2017) |
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08-21-2020, 08:41 AM | #75 | |
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Coming from a 981 CS, I was frustrated out of the box with how the F80 drove on a daily basis. Take all the obvious differences out (size, mid-engine vs. front, weight, etc.) and my biggest gripe was with how the car hooked up with the road. There just didn't seem to be enough tire in the rear to handle all the oooomph. I also wasn't a fan of the Super Sport tires that came on the car stock - so when I had worn those out, I moved to the 4S, and with a 295 rear width. This made a world of difference in how the car performed, and allowed that "savagery" to really come out. At that point, I didn't really look at any tunes either. This is a long winded way of repeating that the newer Ms are severely under-tired. I wonder if the laggy feel or lack of savagery feedback on the M2C can really be traced to that. I never loved the F80, but I enjoyed it much more and appreciated what they were trying to do as soon as I swapped out the rear tires. In terms of revving it out, my recollection is that the S55 does make peak power closer to the redline than say, the N55 in the OG M2. But it wasn't a car I really revved out all that much. Maybe because of the sound characteristics? I don't really know...by way of comparison, my 981 BGTS isn't nearly as fast as the F80, and is also probably quite a bit slower than the M2C. But I love revving it out, because of the howl and the other sounds that engine and exhaust make. Not sure if that distinction makes sense in terms of your question, but that's how I look at it.
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Past rides: 2016 981 BGTS, 2020 MINI JCW, 2017 F80, 2015 981 CS, 2014 F22 235, 2011 E82 135, 2008 E82 135, 2007 E92 328, 2007 E92 328 (My lady drives an OG M2. So does my dad)
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08-21-2020, 10:07 AM | #76 | |
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Thank you for the excellent post and comments therein. There is something so damn engaging and enjoyable about the NA6 in 981 variants. Acoustics are part of it, but the linear climb ALL THE WAY to redline is something that, once in your system, stays there indefinitely. As enthralled as I am with the 981 GTS/GT4 options, I simply could not ignore the 2.5T performance. Specifically related to this topic, it offers that low-end torque everyone enjoys but, unlike most turbos (e.g., M2C) pulls nearly all the way to red line (peak power occurs near red line). So, moving from the 718 CGTS into the M2C, what has frustrated me the most is the lack of pull to red line with the stock M2C tune. I have truly embraced the ‘whine’ and ‘spooling’ of turbo engines. . . I just want the pull and acoustics to peak at/closer to red line. Short of an aftermarket tune, I guess there is not much I can do to get back what BMW took out at the top of the power band. You bring up some other great points. I do not perceive any turbo lag issues with the M2C, probably because I am always in Sport or Sport-Plus and rarely below 4K RPM? Also, I have little value for straight line, 0-60 pulls and I suspect most lag with any turbo is experienced off the line. I do sense that the M2C is somewhat slower than the 718 CGTS but this, again, relates to my commitment to pulling Gs in the twisties where the M2C chassis simply cannot compete with the GTS chassis. As to the ‘under-tired’ topic . . . I have no way of verifying, but from the moment I took delivery of the M2C I felt it needed PS4S tires. How much of a difference will it make over the stock PSS tires, I cannot state with any authority without direct comparison. I do, however, believe I am going to wear out the PSS treads pretty quickly and will replace with 255/275 PS4S setup (if available in those sizes?). The question is, will I wear out the treads before I trade the F87 in for the G87 M2C? . . . I am sure as hell going to enjoy trying. ///AVM |
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08-24-2020, 01:03 PM | #78 |
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For me, the lack of rear folding seats and center console just cuts down only clear advantage the M2C has over the GTS 4.0 or GT4 Cayman: practicality. My wife and I filled the car up with all the stuff we couldn't leave to the movers and then did a 2500 mile road trip from MA to TX. Last week we fit a 30x60in desk and an office chair from Ikea. If I didn't need the practicality I would would have just bought a used last gen GT4. The M2/3/4 has always been a sports car that leans towards a daily driver, not just a weekend toy.
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08-24-2020, 01:19 PM | #79 | |
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08-24-2020, 01:22 PM | #80 | |
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08-24-2020, 02:35 PM | #81 |
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No doubt about it, the Porsche forums are full of the same ‘debates’ that just constantly repeat themselves. Turbo vs NA . . . 718 vs 911 . . . GTS vs GT4 . . . GT4 vs GT3 . . . one individual/group constantly trying to convince themselves and/or others which is ‘BETTER.’
However, the topic of Porsche vs BMW does not exist or - at the VERY LEAST - does not come up in nearly every single thread. Probably because Porsche enthusiasts recognize BMW does not build a chassis that remotely compares with the 718/911 chassis. There is absolutely no value in comparing chassis that are so completely different. Conversely, nearly every thread on this forum digresses into BMW vs Porsche . . . before completely digressing into the ultimate, ‘well, my BMW has a functional back seat.’ Seriously?! I think 90% of members on this forum just need to go out and buy themselves a Porsche already. If new is not an option, then buy a nicely broken-in CPO model of your choice and get it over with already. When I bought my M2C I knew I did not need two cars, but I have begun to learn I do not even enjoy owning two cars. It has not equated to ‘twice the fun.’ I feel my 718 CGTS is a superior product when it comes to overall quality and performance. On these two measures, the Porsche offers much ‘MORE.’ However, more does not always equate to better. In fact, when it comes to the Competition vs CS debate, nothing the CS has offer over the Competition is that important to me. I do not even like most of the ‘more’ the CS has to offer. Thus, I just wanted the M2C. Now, for all of you obsessed and who constantly want to compare your BMW of choice to a Porsche offering, I offer (my) further perspective . . . Not sure there has ever been a better sellers car market than exists right now. The dealerships are desperate for new and used inventory. Consumers want to buy cars. Between the 718 CGTS and M2C, do you know which one I am not willing to consider parting ways . . . the M2C! More does not equate to better when it comes to what is best for each individual enthusiast. There is subjectively just something about the M2C that touches all the right nerves for me. The Porsche grass is not always greener when it comes to every individual, even if offering more and perceived as being better. . . the same can be said of the Competition vs CS. So, will I succumb to the market demands and ‘sell high’ when it comes to my 718 CGTS? Yes, if the right offer comes my direction. Will I consider selling my M2C at this time? Absolutely not!! ///AVM (aka Porsche fanboy) |
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08-24-2020, 03:10 PM | #82 | |
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08-24-2020, 03:45 PM | #83 | |
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I am sure many will read my post and interpret it as M2C vs 718 CGTS. . . and that the M2C is ‘better.’ Based on your comments I think you recognize the key points were (1) owning two cars has not equated to ‘twice the fun’ for ME; and (2) what I think is ‘better’ is ONLY better for ME. I am not trying to convince anyone the M2C is better than the 718 CGTS for THEM. ///AVM |
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08-24-2020, 05:15 PM | #84 | |
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08-24-2020, 10:33 PM | #85 | |
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I love my M2C. But the Boxster 4.0 is a superior machine. Porsche clutch feel and gearbox is unreal. And 4.0 in a mid engine car. But these are 2 completely different classes of cars, IMO |
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08-25-2020, 09:03 PM | #87 | |
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They’re different, sure. But also similar. Not cheap, or very practical (let’s be honest about the 2er’s back seat). Lots of BHP, smiles, true DCT or a manual, and RWD...”cheapest” alternatives for Porsche or ///M....sounds somewhat similar to me. That’s why I wanted something truly different for my daily, and got a Mini Cooper JCW. It’s very different from our 981 or M2...and yet, I appreciate it and love to drive it. It feels very different than our other two cars. And so it made sense for me, as a second and strictly speaking, necessary car. For that exact reason....it’s very different.
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Past rides: 2016 981 BGTS, 2020 MINI JCW, 2017 F80, 2015 981 CS, 2014 F22 235, 2011 E82 135, 2008 E82 135, 2007 E92 328, 2007 E92 328 (My lady drives an OG M2. So does my dad)
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08-25-2020, 09:26 PM | #88 | |
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As always, great perspective. You are likely correct. Different . . . but both visceral. Still, I believe you inadvertently touched on the bigger issue. I only need one car. Whatever it is, I daily drive it every day. Both the M2C and GTS fit the bill . . . but I do not need or enjoy having two for the same occasion. My garage does not have any dormant parking spaces. Clearly this is a first-world 'problem,' and sure hope my comments are not coming across as relating some form of a major life dilemma. Rather, 'I just wanted both of them,' only to find out two cars is one too many in my life. Even more than that, the true basis of my original post was to convey that between the two - despite any rhyme or reason others might have - the M2C is the one that hits all the right cords with ME. . . at this point in time. ///AVM |
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