01-12-2020, 07:55 PM | #23 |
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specifically to M2C
Anyone lowered on 265 30 19 front ? Able to fit 10mm spacer or no? Photos would be greatly appreciated
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01-12-2020, 08:51 PM | #24 |
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Stock setup is two sizes wider in the rear compared to the front. When getting wider tires it's recommended to stick to that ratio. Trying to stuff the widest tires without considering the ramifications will compromise performance. Three or four sizes wider rears compared to front? Can't tell you what to do with your car, but I can tell you to enjoy the massive understeer, bro's.
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01-13-2020, 06:22 PM | #26 |
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We have done quite a bit of research on this subject. It turns out that a 265/285 tire setup is just not ideal given the OEM wheel widths. It is important to note that you are sacrificing sidewall support by fitting a tire that is "too wide" for the given wheel width. By running a tire that is bulging, you will negatively impact handling over stock.
To combat this, we ended up releasing a 19" wheel for the M2 and Competition models that allows for the 265/295 staggered fitment with relative ease. A 265/35-19 is a bit too tall up front and can cause rubbing issues under compression, therefore a 265/30-19 is recommended. We paired a 265/30-19 and 295/30-19 R888R with our M2/M2C specific EC-7 wheels in a 19x9.5 ET28 and 19x10.5 ET45 respectively. This is a spacer free fitment for those on stock suspension. A spacer is required for those running the M Performance coilover or KW HAS kits. There is a lot of good fitment and tire information in this detailed thread: https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1600433 Here are a few photos from that test fitment! - Max
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01-14-2020, 10:26 AM | #27 | |
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01-14-2020, 11:52 AM | #28 | |
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If the tire brand and compound are on the aggressive side, fitment and performance would be impacted when compared to running the extra 0.5" of wheel width to give that extra bit of sidewall support. - Max
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01-14-2020, 06:28 PM | #29 | |
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The fact is, in my personal experience RE71R and Sottozero Serie II do not bulge the OEM wheels. That being a 265/35 on the front 9" and a 285/35 on the rear 10". The sottozeros that I have are actually slightly wider than the RE71R too. Additionally, both everyone in the forums and tire shops agree that 285 is perfectly acceptable for a 10". Can't actually find anyone who says a 295 or 305 isn't okay, actually, either. So if you want to go against tons of different people who have tested multiple tires on the 437m wheels, as well as multiple tire mfgs and retailers that say 285 is fine for a 10" wheel, the provide proof. Otherwise, everything you say is marketing nonsense to sell wheels, in my view. Which does an incredible disservice to the community and the people who believe you because they don't know any better. https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...2&postcount=23 https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...&postcount=199 https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1349434 https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1421086 https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1414210 https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1464923 Additional evidence: Absolutely every tire mfg on tirerack reccomends a 9.5"-11" wheel for their 285/35 tire. And some even recommend 9" wheels https://www.tirerack.com/tires/TireS...earDiameter=17 Absolutely every tire mfg on tirerack reccomends a 9"-10.5" wheel for their 265/35 tire. And some even recommend wheels as narrow as 8.5" and as wide as 11" for their 265/35 tires. https://www.tirerack.com/tires/TireS...earDiameter=17 https://www.tyres-pneus-online.co.uk...ce-advice.html https://www.tyresizecalculator.com/c...rim-size-chart This isn't just a BMW thing either. Every single Porsche, Mustang, and Corvette forum sees no problem with a 285/35 on a 10" rim, some cars even come from the factory like this, and say even wider is fine. So two things you have to prove here: 1: A 285/35 bulges out of a 10" wheel, or a 265/35 bulges out of a 9" wheel. 2: That the amount of bulge negatively impacts handling and is dangerous. Otherwise everything you are saying is hogwash. Last edited by Anthony1s; 01-14-2020 at 10:12 PM.. |
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01-14-2020, 07:28 PM | #30 |
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While I agree with most everything you said, I will say that a tire that is slightly stretched will provide not only better turn-in, but take a set quicker, and be more predictable (which I'm sure you already know). However, that is NOT to say that a bit of a bulge would be dangerous.
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01-14-2020, 07:39 PM | #31 | |
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The 265/30 + 295/30 is perfectly fine as well, but the shoulder profile won't quite match, and the rake is a bit tall (about .8, depending on the tire, of course) because of the taller sidewall. And with said taller sidewall, if the owner doesn't plan to drop the car, then the front to rear tire gap that's already bad will only get visually worse. |
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01-15-2020, 04:12 PM | #32 |
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Thank you for your detailed response, but it seems that my original point might have been lost. Let me explain a bit more clearly.
The reason we do not recommend a 265mm tire on a 9” wheel is due to the lack of sidewall support when compared to a 245mm or 255mm tire on a 9” wheel. That is not to say that a 265mm tire cannot work on a 9” wheel or is dangerous or unsafe, but it can and will impact the performance, handling characteristics (feedback to the driver) and wear patterns of the tire in question. When you consider the fact that many extreme summer, r-comp and semi-slick track oriented compounds notoriously run wider than your average 265 street tire, the lack of sidewall support from a 9” wheel is amplified and becomes increasingly more apparent to the driver - especially upon initial turn-in and throughout a corner when the weight of the vehicle is transferred and the tire sidewalls are experiencing extreme loads. When fitting a wheel and tire package to any car, many individuals believe that wide tires unequivocally result in more performance. That is not always the case. A crucial variable to take into consideration is maximizing sidewall support on whatever size tire you plan on using. When the sidewall of a tire is supported correctly, the tire can perform much more linearly across its traction range. If the sidewall is not well supported, the tire sidewall can flex and fold over during turn-in and throughout corners. The sidewall is not designed to withstand the same adhesion requirements as the main treadblock of a tire, and this folding over can result in less traction and undesired understeer/oversteer given the situation. Generally speaking, the consensus of many racers is that in order to extract the most performance out of a given compound and to maximize the tires contact patch, you’ll want to use a wheel width that is at the wider end of a tire manufacturer's recommended wheel width spectrum. Tire sidewall construction varies from compound to compound, so some tire models are more sensitive to this than others. There are always exceptions to the rule. Many racers are bound to class rules, for example, SCCA street class mandates that you run the stock wheel widths of a given vehicle with an offset that is +/- 7mm. In these instances, while drivers cannot run wider wheel widths, they will certainly maximize tire width to gain as much grip as possible. At the end of the day, hard core track enthusaists and racers are always looking for ways of getting an edge over “the competition”. There are many decisions and incremental improvements that can be made which directly increase performance and/or instill more confidence in the driver, all resulting in superior lap times. I do hope that this provided clarity to my previous posts. - Max
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01-15-2020, 04:47 PM | #33 | |
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Last edited by Anthony1s; 01-15-2020 at 04:54 PM.. |
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01-15-2020, 07:37 PM | #35 | |
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After reviewing the discussion and my previous responses, I can appreciate your position on the topic and it was our mistake to speak in absolutes. As a performance-focused brand involved in motorsports, we are passionate about offering solutions to track enthusiasts and club racers that optimize wheel and tire configurations to their fullest potential. I can see that I am making some assumptions in regard to how M2 owners here on the forums may be enjoying their vehicles. If an enthusiast is planning to upgrade their wheels and desires to run wider tire widths, we believe that taking the opportunity to increase wheel width respectively will yield superior results for the reasons mentioned in our last post. It sounds like we share different views on the topic, and that is okay as personal preferences play a big role in how we all modify our cars. Luckily, there are now a fair amount of options for wheel and tire configurations for the M2 & M2C. You had asked for proof, and I apologize I did not address that request. Our professional recommendations come from 12+ years of researching and developing wheels for a variety of makes and models, more specifically for track and race applications, as well as our direct involvement in various levels of motorsports from sprint races to 25 hour endurance races. As you’ve pointed out, tire manufacturers list a range of tires sizes that are appropriate (safe) for a given wheel width, however, they do not tell you which of those wheel widths is going to yield the best results for a given application. That only comes from experience. For those that would like to keep the stock wheels in place while increasing tire width, we agree that there is no problem or safety concern with installing 265/285 tires. While the 265’s on a 9” wheel may be a bit wide for our preference, street cars are not pushed to the limits where sidewall support would become an issue or pain point for the driver. 285mm tires mount up to 10” wheels quite nicely, and we recommend it to street customers often. We appreciate the conversation. It is helpful as a community to debate specific topics in hopes of providing information that can be beneficial to all members. - Max
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01-15-2020, 09:15 PM | #36 | |
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Put another way, fitted to the same car, and inflated to the same psi, a 245 on a 9" wheel and a 305 on an 11" wheel will have the exact same contact patch area, they will just be different shapes. And going even further, all these guys fitting 285's and 295's thinking they will get better acceleration are absolutely confused. All they are getting is a different handling car, and any increased acceleration grip is down to new tires vs the old, or a stickier compound. Strictly speaking, for acceleration you want a long contact patch front to back (take a look at what happens to the tire of a Top Fuel dragster for confirmation), and for handling you want a wide contact patch side to side (re: F1 or any other handling motorsport, especially auto-x). |
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01-15-2020, 09:41 PM | #37 | |
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How specifically does a 295/30R19 on a 10.5" wheel behave differently than a 285/35R19 on a 10" wheel? What are the aspects you believe the 295 combo performs better in? And what is specifically negative about the handling of the 285 combo? Maybe my logic is wrong and you have good reasons for believing this. But it can't be bulge, because both combos are proportionally the same in that aspect. Last edited by Anthony1s; 01-15-2020 at 11:37 PM.. |
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01-15-2020, 10:40 PM | #38 | |
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We had access to the 265/295 R888R, and since many of our customers are in pursuit of r-compounds for HPDE's, we thought we would examine and share that configuration. We also really like the Michelin PS4S as a performance street tire, but unfortunately, they are not available in 285/30-19 either. There is a lot more support from tire manufacturers in a 19" diameter than there used to be, so we're hoping more good options become available. For reference, I've pasted the tire list from that thread below. Tire Availability - Staggered Configurations F: 265/30-19 / R: 285/30-19 Performance Street Hankook Ventus V12 Evo2 Kumho Ecsta PS91 Firestone Firehawk Indy 500 Extreme Summer None available Streetable Track and Competition None available Semi-slicks & Slicks None available F: 265/30-19 / R: 295/30-19 Performance Street Michelin Pilot Sport 4S * APEX favorite * Hankook Ventus V12 Evo2 Kumho Ecsta PS91 Extreme Summer None available Streetable Track and Competition Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 * APEX favorite * Pirelli P Zero Trofeo R * APEX favorite * Toyo R888R Semi-slicks & Slicks None available F: 275/30-19 / R: 295/30-19 Performance Street Michelin Pilot Sport 4S * APEX favorite * Hankook Ventus V12 Evo2 Kumho Ecsta PS91 Extreme Summer None available Streetable Track and Competition None available Semi-slicks & Slicks None available F: 275/30-19 / R: 305/30-19 Performance Street Michelin Pilot Sport 4S * APEX favorite * Continental Extremecontact Sport Hankook Ventus V12 Evo2 Kumho Ecsta PS91 Extreme Summer None available Streetable Track and Competition None available Semi-slicks None available Tire Availability - Rotatable Square Configurations F&R: 265/30-19 Performance Street Michelin Pilot Sport 4S * APEX favorite * Hankook Ventus V12 Evo2 Kumho Ecsta PS91 Extreme Summer None available Streetable Track & Competition Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 * APEX favorite * Pirelli P Zero Trofeo R * APEX favorite * Toyo R888R Semi-slicks & Slicks None available F&R: 275/30-19 Performance Street Michelin Pilot Sport 4S * APEX favorite * Continental Extremecontact Sport Hankook Ventus V12 Evo2 Kumho Ecsta PS91 Firestone Firehawk Indy 500 Dunlop Direzza DZ102 Extreme Summer Nitto NT05 Streetable Track & Competition None available Semi-Slicks None Available EDIT: I should also mention, Bridgestone RE-71Rs is a very popular Extreme Summer Tire among track enthusiasts, and they can be ran in 255/35-19 front, 275/35-19 rear.
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01-15-2020, 10:55 PM | #39 | |
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I will say that many Michelin-snooty BMW owners are overlooking the Firehawk Indy, which comes in correct sizes, and is a damn fine performance tire, even with how inexpensive it is. |
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01-16-2020, 12:32 AM | #40 | |
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01-16-2020, 12:54 AM | #41 |
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For reference only, the Audi RS5 fits 275 rubbers on 9" rims from the factory and works well, so 265/285 can be mounted without any issue on 9"/10" oem M2 wheels. It's more a matter of appearance, someone could prefer a more staggered effect, someone else a more square effect.
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01-16-2020, 01:50 AM | #42 |
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AD-08R (Extreme Summer) 245/35, 265/35 19 255/35, 275/35 19 255/30, 275,30 19 265/30, 295/30 19 275/30, 305,30 19 A005 (Slick) & A006 (Wet) Available in a number of sizes for 19 inches wheel https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&r...6gswAmGHF7TvIX |
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01-16-2020, 02:00 AM | #43 |
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RE-12D (R Compound Motorsports) 275/35R19 - Square setup The Potenza range, RE-71R, RE-71RS and S007A all have various 19 inches size that is suitable for the M2 but may not be the best match |
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01-16-2020, 04:36 AM | #44 | |
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Just wanted to ask for your recommendation: I've got a set of Protrack One in 10x18 +20 and 10,5x18 +40 and plan to run 265/35 front and 285/35 rear. Car is lowered on KW CS 3-way. Would you think, 265/30 and 285/30 (or even 295/30) is a better choice? The wheel set is only for track use. |
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