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      02-26-2018, 10:21 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by Transfer View Post
At least 4 M2s on my dealer's lot and they are only going corporate discount of $2k off and nothing given up by them. The only one of these cars that doesn't have the $5k performance pack is black which I don't want so I'm going to have to order anyway.

One of them is loaded to $69k sticker.

The point though is there are cars on the lots, order slots available and a new M2 arriving middle part of this year. Prices should be coming down.
You must be talking about them. They got 7 in stock ready to drive away! Seems like the M2 hype is over.
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      02-26-2018, 11:45 AM   #68
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You must be talking about them. They got 7 in stock ready to drive away! Seems like the M2 hype is over.
Aw that pic makes me sad. All those M2's with nobody to love them. This must be what girls feel like when they see puppies in the pound.
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      03-01-2018, 12:56 PM   #69
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It's a fair point. I loved the F80 at the M School and think it is a great total package. My spouse and I are at that point where four doors is a serious attraction and a slight requirement. The Silverstone is to die for and it is a Swiss Army Knife with track duty, DD, errands, etc. It would suffer at the AX, but whatever. My iS was too much car for that but still fun...

But I love the rawness of the F87, and frankly, it's the "dumb" stuff that doesn't come on it that keeps me flip-flopping. Cloth seats and 18 inch wheels as options would seal the deal. I love the look, the feel, the finish, and frankly, I feel it is the best blend of tech with performance which the F80 does not have (it's practically a wild GT car). The M2 though, man, for the driving I love and the AX/back country roads we have here, it is the perfect formula. But I want f--king cloth and 18s!

I like nimble, fast, raw cars. The M2 is it, but the F80 with those stupid options not available on the F87, for some reason just irks me. I know the F87 gets the E46 comparison, but just give us those two options that were available on the E46 to make more of a reality... Sh-t, the cloth interior, and this would have been locked up a long time ago.

Oh and for the price, the F87 is it.

People love the 437m wheel, I am sure you could get some 18s in a trade. Honestly the dealer can't just make the 18s happen for you while giving up the 19s?
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      03-01-2018, 01:08 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by ddnmkun View Post
You must be talking about them. They got 7 in stock ready to drive away! Seems like the M2 hype is over.
Some reason PNW dealers like to list them on their web-site even though those cars are pre-sold or even sold. I doubt they have 7 of them on the floor, and still ask for full MSRP.

At least now, if you finance through CU you can get $2000 fleet.
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      03-02-2018, 12:51 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by ddnmkun View Post
You must be talking about them. They got 7 in stock ready to drive away! Seems like the M2 hype is over.
Some reason PNW dealers like to list them on their web-site even though those cars are pre-sold or even sold. I doubt they have 7 of them on the floor, and still ask for full MSRP.

At least now, if you finance through CU you can get $2000 fleet.
As if a couple weeks ago those 7 were available to anyone walking in the door who wanted to pay MSRP.
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      03-02-2018, 07:34 AM   #72
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As if a couple weeks ago those 7 were available to anyone walking in the door who wanted to pay MSRP.
Wow, that's crazy, seven M2 at a single dealer is like an entire year worth of allocations. Trust me I talked to 2 prominent CAs back in summer when I was seriously considering M2 over M3, and in a quarter (3 month period) they only get about two M2 allocations, that assuming they can sell most of their allotted 240i M which is not selling well compare to M2. Clarifications, dealers may get fewer M2 if they have 240i M sitting on their lot, it's the game BMWNA play to reward resourceful dealers for moving stale merchandises.

That also means that dealer hang on to their allocation even though no one is willing to pay MSRP for M2, they'll end up like BMW Northwest the only dealer I know of that still has M4 GTS 18 months after it's released; well the market is not paying $10k over MSRP on M4 GTS and they seems to miss that memo.
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      03-02-2018, 04:20 PM   #73
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Yep same in Toronto Budd's BMW has 7 M2's in stock....
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      03-02-2018, 07:50 PM   #74
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Yep same in Toronto Budd's BMW has 7 M2's in stock....
Most of these dealers show sold customer ordered cars as being available on there website.I would be very surprised if all of those cars are in stock and for sale at that dealer.
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      03-02-2018, 08:45 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by HPIA4v2 View Post
Wow, that's crazy, seven M2 at a single dealer is like an entire year worth of allocations. Trust me I talked to 2 prominent CAs back in summer when I was seriously considering M2 over M3, and in a quarter (3 month period) they only get about two M2 allocations, that assuming they can sell most of their allotted 240i M which is not selling well compare to M2. Clarifications, dealers may get fewer M2 if they have 240i M sitting on their lot, it's the game BMWNA play to reward resourceful dealers for moving stale merchandises.

That also means that dealer hang on to their allocation even though no one is willing to pay MSRP for M2, they'll end up like BMW Northwest the only dealer I know of that still has M4 GTS 18 months after it's released; well the market is not paying $10k over MSRP on M4 GTS and they seems to miss that memo.
What exactly is your evidence that "no one is willing to pay MSRP for M2 . . . .?" I haven't seen that. I've seen dealers holding on to these cars until someone walks in and pays retail for it. Sure, you can call around and you might get lucky, but unless you are really really lucky you are not going to have an opportunity to buy one of these cars configured the way you want it and sold to you at a meaningful discount. It could obviously happen to some people, but the norm? Clearly not.

I would bet that the vast majority of people on this board paid MSRP for their M2s, and a lot of them did that recently. I myself have one coming in shortly. I'm a "deal" type of guy and you can bet that if I could have gotten a deal easily on a car that I wanted, that did not involve airplane flights, a long drive, and lots of wasted time, I would have done exactly that. Some people have other, more valuable things to do with their time than wasting 2 or 3 days trying to save a couple of thousand dollars.

What IS true is that there is no reason anymore to pay a premium over MSRP; that era is over, except for maybe a couple of specific geographic areas, and those areas have so many dealers that it's hard to believe that this problem can't be avoided somehow.

It's winter; a few of these cars have piled up on a few dealer's lots. This is not a continent-wide situation, and although some people here have reported opportunities to buy pre-ordered cars at a significant discount, very few have been able to order them the way they want them, with very many $$ off.
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      03-03-2018, 07:12 AM   #76
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thought I would share, maybe boast a bit. just picked up the M2 last Saturday. I had a couple days of phone and email conversations, Thursday on. They had it listed just under 1800 off, then were showing presidents day, returning customer and some other deal... Of course those didn't apply to me...

fast forward Saturday morning and I get a call, we will make a deal and honor most of those deals. Thinking sure, sure. Drove a couple hours back to town, giving up my weekend plans. Went to dealership around 4 PM. Sat down and figured out the price, they came close at first. Removed some of those dealer options, who gets those any way. Price was close to what I wanted to pay. Asked for a final price out the door. They came back with a yes. Deal was done in 15 minutes. Then waited on financing, got a decent rate, but will migrate it to a better rate in a month...

But a very simple and pleasant deal and got the car I would of ordered or done a EU delivery for. Ohhh, for much less than either other option.

18 M2
LBB
Exec package
DCT
Destination
Sticker 59495
waiting on my BMWCCA discount for an additional 500

YMMV, but a very happy new M2 owner who expected to pay more.

Here is a snippet of the BoS, I could edit out other areas, but this was simple...
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      03-03-2018, 01:49 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by Bruuuce View Post
thought I would share, maybe boast a bit. just picked up the M2 last Saturday. I had a couple days of phone and email conversations, Thursday on. They had it listed just under 1800 off, then were showing presidents day, returning customer and some other deal... Of course those didn't apply to me...

fast forward Saturday morning and I get a call, we will make a deal and honor most of those deals. Thinking sure, sure. Drove a couple hours back to town, giving up my weekend plans. Went to dealership around 4 PM. Sat down and figured out the price, they came close at first. Removed some of those dealer options, who gets those any way. Price was close to what I wanted to pay. Asked for a final price out the door. They came back with a yes. Deal was done in 15 minutes. Then waited on financing, got a decent rate, but will migrate it to a better rate in a month...

But a very simple and pleasant deal and got the car I would of ordered or done a EU delivery for. Ohhh, for much less than either other option.

18 M2
LBB
Exec package
DCT
Destination
Sticker 59495
waiting on my BMWCCA discount for an additional 500

YMMV, but a very happy new M2 owner who expected to pay more.

Here is a snippet of the BoS, I could edit out other areas, but this was simple...
OK, so you saved $4000, and if this is the car that you would have ordered, then it's a deal. Congratulations!

Euro delivery would have saved you close to $3000, so we are not talking lottery winnings.

But it is a loaded up car similar to a lot of the cars that other forum members claim to have gotten deals on. I personally would not have wanted that car at any price, since I don't want DCT, the Executive Package, or LBB, all personal preferences. Then you throw in considerations of savings on sales tax with a trade in, which makes any sort of long distance transaction very dicey; I would not personally drive hours and hours with my trade-in vehicle, only to risk that the dealer wouldn't honor a verbal agreement when I got there.

And, in truth, the amount of effort I would put in on a car deal like this, to save a few thousand dollars is limited. In my business dealings, a few thousand dollars is a rounding error. I suspect I am not alone here with that attitude.
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      03-03-2018, 01:49 PM   #78
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What exactly is your evidence that "no one is willing to pay MSRP for M2 . . . .?" I haven't seen that. I've seen dealers holding on to these cars until someone walks in and pays retail for it. Sure, you can call around and you might get lucky, but unless you are really really lucky you are not going to have an opportunity to buy one of these cars configured the way you want it and sold to you at a meaningful discount. It could obviously happen to some people, but the norm? Clearly not.

I would bet that the vast majority of people on this board paid MSRP for their M2s, and a lot of them did that recently. I myself have one coming in shortly. I'm a "deal" type of guy and you can bet that if I could have gotten a deal easily on a car that I wanted, that did not involve airplane flights, a long drive, and lots of wasted time, I would have done exactly that. Some people have other, more valuable things to do with their time than wasting 2 or 3 days trying to save a couple of thousand dollars.

What IS true is that there is no reason anymore to pay a premium over MSRP; that era is over, except for maybe a couple of specific geographic areas, and those areas have so many dealers that it's hard to believe that this problem can't be avoided somehow.

It's winter; a few of these cars have piled up on a few dealer's lots. This is not a continent-wide situation, and although some people here have reported opportunities to buy pre-ordered cars at a significant discount, very few have been able to order them the way they want them, with very many $$ off.
To be fair, your argument doesn't show any actual evidence either. Only things you have "seen" and "would bet" on. Which is the same metric that guy used to justify his response. What's to say he's not in some bubble of people he talks to that refuse to pay MSRP or above and the dealers he's talked to (only two and 6 months ago) weren't in their own little world of refusing to quote lower than MSRP. You seem to have spent your time talking to actual dealers too, but what's to say you're not in your own little a bubble of dealers who all charge MSRP or higher? In order to really answer what the entire USA is selling M2 build orders for, we would need sold prices of every single M2, the dates they were sold, the final profit the dealer expected to make taking loan/lease into consideration, asking the buyer if a sooner allocation date influenced him to pay more, etc. And no one is gonna do that research because whatever we find out will be worthless in a few months when spring comes or the new M2 CS is announced or whatever millions of other variables there could be.

I can tell you that I personally was given $2518 off MSRP on the M2 I ordered on February 3nd with a wk8 build allocation. I emailed 12 dealers in my state asking basically "do you have a M2 allocation? If so, when is it?" then "what is the out-the-door price on this M2 build". I think I also mentioned that I was ready to order ASAP and won't back out after the car arrives. The dealer I went with replied with the $2518 off quote. I didn't do any negotiating with him. 6 other dealers that had allocations and replied quoted me at MSRP or about $100 higher. When I asked them if they could beat the quote from the other dealer, a couple of them said the most they could take off was about $1200. All this took me 3-4 hours, not near 2-3 days. Dealers reply quickly, plus I was laser focused in my conversation. I slept on it and the next day I put a deposit down online. Never needed to go to a dealership.

Now, with that in mind, the dealer didn't ask how I was paying until almost a month after I placed my order. I'm paying cash. I don't know if he's losing money on that because I'm not getting a loan. So did that influence the price he gave me? Or is that gonna influence the future pricing he offers to thers? I don't know. Is he gonna try to lock me into some other plan to re-coup money lost on the car sale? I don't know. Is he gonna change the price when I walk in the door to pick my car up? I don't know. Did he give me that price because their power would be shut off if they didn't sell a car ASAP? I don't know.

Also, my experience is just one example of ordering a car recently. Like I said before, we don't have enough evidence to make a proper call on this. So make what you want out of my experience. I think everyone reading should use everyone's experience as general information, and not a rule of thumb for what they should pay.

Speaking to everyone, not just to you, champignon... In the end, this thread is about getting the best price for your new M2 relative to what others paid. And I think you can't do that. You have to go by what price you can actually get the car for. Email dealers in your area and see what their out-the-door price is.

And in all this, I am talking about final out-the-door price for ordering a M2, not buying one on the lot. Also, I don't have a trade-in. That changes things and makes it more complicated.

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      03-03-2018, 02:08 PM   #79
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To no one in particular and everyone in general:
If you think you got a good deal, it’s a good deal. Period.
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      03-03-2018, 03:27 PM   #80
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To no one in particular and everyone in general:
If you think you got a good deal, it’s a good deal. Period.
agreed
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      03-03-2018, 03:51 PM   #81
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To be fair, your argument doesn't show any actual evidence either. Only things you have "seen" and "would bet" on. Which is the same metric that guy used to justify his response. What's to say he's not in some bubble of people he talks to that refuse to pay MSRP or above and the dealers he's talked to (only two and 6 months ago) weren't in their own little world of refusing to quote lower than MSRP. You seem to have spent your time talking to actual dealers too, but what's to say you're not in your own little a bubble of dealers who all charge MSRP or higher? In order to really answer what the entire USA is selling M2 build orders for, we would need sold prices of every single M2, the dates they were sold, the final profit the dealer expected to make taking loan/lease into consideration, asking the buyer if a sooner allocation date influenced him to pay more, etc. And no one is gonna do that research because whatever we find out will be worthless in a few months when spring comes or the new M2 CS is announced or whatever millions of other variables there could be.

I can tell you that I personally was given $2518 off MSRP on the M2 I ordered on February 3nd with a wk8 build allocation. I emailed 12 dealers in my state asking basically "do you have a M2 allocation? If so, when is it?" then "what is the out-the-door price on this M2 build". I think I also mentioned that I was ready to order ASAP and won't back out after the car arrives. The dealer I went with replied with the $2518 off quote. I didn't do any negotiating with him. 6 other dealers that had allocations and replied quoted me at MSRP or about $100 higher. When I asked them if they could beat the quote from the other dealer, a couple of them said the most they could take off was about $1200. All this took me 3-4 hours, not near 2-3 days. Dealers reply quickly, plus I was laser focused in my conversation. I slept on it and the next day I put a deposit down online. Never needed to go to a dealership.

Now, with that in mind, the dealer didn't ask how I was paying until almost a month after I placed my order. I'm paying cash. I don't know if he's losing money on that because I'm not getting a loan. So did that influence the price he gave me? Or is that gonna influence the future pricing he offers to thers? I don't know. Is he gonna try to lock me into some other plan to re-coup money lost on the car sale? I don't know. Is he gonna change the price when I walk in the door to pick my car up? I don't know. Did he give me that price because their power would be shut off if they didn't sell a car ASAP? I don't know.

Also, my experience is just one example of ordering a car recently. Like I said before, we don't have enough evidence to make a proper call on this. So make what you want out of my experience. I think everyone reading should use everyone's experience as general information, and not a rule of thumb for what they should pay.

Speaking to everyone, not just to you, champignon... In the end, this thread is about getting the best price for your new M2 relative to what others paid. And I think you can't do that. You have to go by what price you can actually get the car for. Email dealers in your area and see what their out-the-door price is.

And in all this, I am talking about final out-the-door price for ordering a M2, not buying one on the lot. Also, I don't have a trade-in. That changes things and makes it more complicated.
I don't disagree with anything you have written. There is a total of ONE dealer in my state, and other adjacent and semi-adjacent states are not ones in which people seem to be getting deals. So my reference to 2-3 days, has to do with the amount of time it would take for me to get on an airplane and fly somewhere, or drive my car 900 miles and then back in the new M2.

Obviously, if you live in a state where there are 12 dealers, and if there is a surplus of cars on the lots or a surplus of allocations, then you have some other options.

Still, although I would not personally pay ONE dollar over MSRP for any car, I am not against the dealer making a profit on his transactions with me. I do business in the city where the dealer is located, and some of their employees are customers of a business I am a partner in, which I know for a fact. The dealer has also done some favors for me over the last few years. I had a great uncle (long since deceased) who was a highly successful lawyer, and his personal ethos was, "always leave something on the table for the other guy." I think he had a point. This is how I conduct my business affairs, and as a result I would like to think that I get it all back in the end.

This whole MSRP discussion has value in that it shows that you don't have to pay over sticker for one of these cars, and in some cases you may get a modest discount off of sticker if you happen to live in the right area, or you are willing to put a lot of time and effort into this. A purchase of the magnitude of a new M2 may be one of the biggest purchases of some young forum member's life, and may be nothing to even think about for others.
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      03-04-2018, 11:13 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by Spa2k View Post
To no one in particular and everyone in general:
If you think you got a good deal, it’s a good deal. Period.
Word!!

Btw another week pass by, those 7 M2 at BMW Seattle still sitting comfortably.

https://www.bmwseattle.com/new-inven....htm?model=M2&
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      03-04-2018, 12:17 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by ddnmkun View Post
Word!!

Btw another week pass by, those 7 M2 at BMW Seattle still sitting comfortably.

https://www.bmwseattle.com/new-inven....htm?model=M2&
The used market is starting to show some M2s as well. I have seen several CPO M2's in south California (http://cpo.bmwusa.com/certified-used...?zipCode=91801)

All dealers ask sticker or above for the used ones, but I bet that if the customer says he is serious about buying, they might budge the price.
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      03-05-2018, 08:53 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by ddnmkun View Post
Word!!

Btw another week pass by, those 7 M2 at BMW Seattle still sitting comfortably.

https://www.bmwseattle.com/new-inven....htm?model=M2&
Seattle BMW internet manager, Mike Brown is very active at bimmerfest.com/forums/ask-the-dealer, beginning of last month when allocation for his dealer came out, he said that about half of his clients on the waiting list got production numbers for their M2, I can't say with 100% certainty but from that discussion on that forums, these M2 are spoken for and no longer available for sale. Like I said before all PNW dealers for some reason put sold vehicles on their web-sites; how do I know? well for 2 months my M3 was on their website, not even marked as "priority-1 sold" until last week when I picked it up it turned to sold on their website. I guess it's tactic to lure buyers thinking they have hard to find cars on the lot.
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      03-06-2018, 07:45 AM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HPIA4v2 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ddnmkun View Post
Word!!

Btw another week pass by, those 7 M2 at BMW Seattle still sitting comfortably.

https://www.bmwseattle.com/new-inven....htm?model=M2&
Seattle BMW internet manager, Mike Brown is very active at bimmerfest.com/forums/ask-the-dealer, beginning of last month when allocation for his dealer came out, he said that about half of his clients on the waiting list got production numbers for their M2, I can't say with 100% certainty but from that discussion on that forums, these M2 are spoken for and no longer available for sale. Like I said before all PNW dealers for some reason put sold vehicles on their web-sites; how do I know? well for 2 months my M3 was on their website, not even marked as "priority-1 sold" until last week when I picked it up it turned to sold on their website. I guess it's tactic to lure buyers thinking they have hard to find cars on the lot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HPIA4v2 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ddnmkun View Post
Word!!

Btw another week pass by, those 7 M2 at BMW Seattle still sitting comfortably.

https://www.bmwseattle.com/new-inven....htm?model=M2&
Seattle BMW internet manager, Mike Brown is very active at bimmerfest.com/forums/ask-the-dealer, beginning of last month when allocation for his dealer came out, he said that about half of his clients on the waiting list got production numbers for their M2, I can't say with 100% certainty but from that discussion on that forums, these M2 are spoken for and no longer available for sale. Like I said before all PNW dealers for some reason put sold vehicles on their web-sites; how do I know? well for 2 months my M3 was on their website, not even marked as "priority-1 sold" until last week when I picked it up it turned to sold on their website. I guess it's tactic to lure buyers thinking they have hard to find cars on the lot.

Wow, wonder why they put those cars deep inside the showroom. Whoever new owner of those 2 M2 in the picture, forgive me a stranger for sitting in your new car playing with clutch and buttons.
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      03-07-2018, 07:51 AM   #86
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Wow, wonder why they put those cars deep inside the showroom. Whoever new owner of those 2 M2 in the picture, forgive me a stranger for sitting in your new car playing with clutch and buttons.
LOL, you just breaking in the clutch for them.

It's possible those people, back out after seeing the lease numbers.
Or maybe buyer remorse, after agreeing on $X over MSRP and cancel.
Last summer my CA at Bellevue told me, there are 20 people on waiting list but he also says that's like 10 at best cause half will drop out after the car comes in due to the above reasonings.

Got to love BMW dealers, never sweat at cancellation, my CA had some one cancelled on M6 GC, $150K with ceramic brake and all, he said he could give me a good deal on it
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      03-07-2018, 10:45 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by HPIA4v2 View Post
LOL, you just breaking in the clutch for them.

It's possible those people, back out after seeing the lease numbers.
Or maybe buyer remorse, after agreeing on $X over MSRP and cancel.
Last summer my CA at Bellevue told me, there are 20 people on waiting list but he also says that's like 10 at best cause half will drop out after the car comes in due to the above reasonings.

Got to love BMW dealers, never sweat at cancellation, my CA had some one cancelled on M6 GC, $150K with ceramic brake and all, he said he could give me a good deal on it
Does that dealer require a non-refundable deposit to be put on the waiting list? Last month the sales manager at Sun Motor Cars said their allocations were booked up until June 2019 and asked me for a $1000 deposit to get on the waiting list. I was like "nope" and went elsewhere.
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      03-07-2018, 11:44 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by Anthony1s View Post
Does that dealer require a non-refundable deposit to be put on the waiting list? Last month the sales manager at Sun Motor Cars said their allocations were booked up until June 2019 and asked me for a $1000 deposit to get on the waiting list. I was like "nope" and went elsewhere.
If you are not comfortable, ask to be put on the waiting list until a production number becomes available for you, then put a deposit. once dealer receive allocation in the form of production number, ALL dealers require a deposit for it to be attached to you; cause at this point you customize your color/options etc. Not fair for dealer to do all this without a deposit.

Some dealer may require deposit just to be on their waiting list, you have no choice cause the car is so in demand it's up to you at this point to participate or not

As far as deposit being refundable, it's case-by-case and, integrity of the dealer, is the car already on the lot, are the color/option marketable in the area etc. Good dealer would confirm your color, options and buyer seriousness once production number becomes available to avoid this situation. I bet you can back out here with deposit fully refundable.
I backed out on a custom order albeit non-M BMW due to recall, CA was not too excited but my deposit is refunded within 2 weeks.

I'd call Seattle dealer, hey they have 7 on the floor
It'd only cost probably $800 to truck one to you dealer as "courtesy delivery", beat the waiting. I am still skeptical those 7 at Seattle dealer are available, as you mention your dealer waiting list goes all the way to mid 2019, but worth a try.
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