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      02-17-2020, 12:08 AM   #1
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M2CS Vs 718 GTS 4.0

Being an owner of an OG M2, I eagerly awaited the arrival of the CS as my finance agreement comes to it's end. However I was a bit baffled and disappointed by the price and eventual specs: £75,320 for a car still weighing so much, with essentially the same running gear as an m4cp but costing about £5000 more!!!! My wife already has a m4cp, and I don't see how the m2cs brings anything SIGNIFICANTLY more to the table. PLUS the dealers are complete ****holes about placing orders / "getting on to the (flip) list". So I decided to jump ship to Porsche...

What has the world come to when a £65,000 Porsche seems better value than a spunky little beemer!? It might even be the better car on this occasion.
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      02-17-2020, 07:40 AM   #2
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I would never pay more for a CS. It’s interesting how the prices work out over there. Over here, an equivalently specced 4.0 will likely come in ~30% higher. Starting price is estimated closer to 100k vs 83k, and Porsche options are always another 10-20% .
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      02-17-2020, 07:51 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill in Marin View Post
I would never pay more for a CS. It’s interesting how the prices work out over there. Over here, an equivalently specced 4.0 will likely come in ~30% higher. Starting price is estimated closer to 100k vs 83k, and Porsche options are always another 10-20% .
I know.. the price can get silly with options. But if one can retain some objectivity when choosing options you can still specify the car with all modern amenities for around £72000 incl on the road fees ('destination' I believe it's called across the pond).
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      02-17-2020, 04:06 PM   #4
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In Germany a well equipped Cayman GTS 4.0 will be in the range of 105K euro ($115K).
And it is very likely that an M2cs will cost around 95K euro ($105)

Given the above prices for me the choice is obvious - it is hands down the Cayman GTS 4.0
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      02-17-2020, 08:01 PM   #5
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GTs 4.0 hands down. That car is made for manual enthusiasts
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      02-17-2020, 08:48 PM   #6
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CS any day. Much better road car.
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      02-17-2020, 10:38 PM   #7
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I'd go with the Porsche personally considering the price difference. I considered a base Cayman when I was purchasing the M2C, honestly that chassis is better and even though I don't regret my purchase, i know the Cayman would probably be slightly more fun on a twisty road.

But it was significantly more expensive than the M2C if i'd gone with more than a zero option stripper model. Meanwhile, the gap between an M2C and the M2 CS is smaller IMHO than the gap between the base Cayman and the Cayman GTS. If the Cayman GTS is actually cheaper over there than the M2CS, that's the route i'd take, assuming you want the car as basically a toy and don't need the back seats/practicality aspect.

The CS would probably be a little rarer if you're into exclusivity, and other car nerds would likely give you more "street cred" but your average non-car person would probably think the Cayman was actually the more special vehicle.
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      02-18-2020, 01:57 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davil View Post
CS any day. Much better road car.
I appreciate this as M2CS will be better 'daily' than a 718 GTS : esp for those using back seats for people / stuff. But my point is it's got competition from within the BMW brand. Why wouldn't someone looking for more of a practicality/performance balance not opt for an M4 zcp or stick with an M2 comp? I don't see the performance nor practicality delta to warrant the near £15000 price delta. I don't think in a few years it will retain that value, say compared to the 1M, for this reason.
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      02-18-2020, 09:02 PM   #9
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Nobody goes to Notre Dame stadium to listen to the USC band play the Trojan fight song at half-time, I get that . . . but this thread asks to compare a competitor.

I have never driven an M2CS, obviously, and the same is true of the GTS 4.0. HOWEVER, I have plenty of seat time in the M2C and own a 718 CGTS.

Sorry to the prospective M2CS owners, but the M2CS is not going revolutionize the M2 chassis. In fact, it is the exact same chassis (and S55 engine). The same is true of the 718 GTS, except the NA F6 is being introduced in the 4.0 variant. So, my comments come with some merit.

When it comes to chassis, nothing in the BMW lineup can compete with 718 mid-engine (or 911 rear engine). The 718 is not about straight line, 0-60 speeds. It is all about owning the twisties and pulling Gs through them. For ME, the chassis is the key, and nobody does chassis better than Porsche.

My above comments are all that need to be said when it comes to performance and handling, BUT . . . the 718 is a pure sport car. I live in a rural area with access to absolute BFI. I spend 90% of my time above 5K RPMs and rarely get out of 2nd or 3rd gear. In other words, I wring the living piss out of my 718 and live in the heart (upper) power band. Not everyone has such luxury due to local roadway limitations and/or interest in driving constantly wrung out. Personally, I would not own a 718 if living within urban limits of stop-and-go and straight line driving.

Further, being a pure, two-seat sport car, the 718 offers limitation on practicality for many. Although small, the M2C and M2CS do offer back seats that are functional. I am not sure just 'how' much more practical either of the M2 offerings are compared to 718 when it comes to the fact that few are looking at any of the cars in mention from anything other than a sport car enthusiast perspective? Nonetheless, the M2 offerings do have practicality features not available in the 718. . . including functional cup holders!

So, only the individual can decide what best suits them and their needs. Daily driving versus track; urban driving vs rural access; etc, etc. Notwithstanding, I have the following perspective.

If you are decided upon the 718 chassis, well you have more than ample options, including the soon-to-be released GTS 4.0. Word of advice, if money is a consideration, I would strongly investigate the 981 variants, including the GT4. If you are decided upon the M2 model, well then I guess it is up to you whether the CS is worth the extra $30K+. Regardless, the 718 GTS vs M2C or M2 CS is never going to be an apples-to-apples comparison . . . so, it cannot be an 'all things being equal' consideration.

///AVM

Last edited by ///AVM; 03-02-2020 at 08:18 PM..
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      02-18-2020, 09:57 PM   #10
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the GTS 4.0 doesnt perform, it runs a 7:40 Nurburgring and 12.5 quarter mile, those are horrible numbers for a 90K car.
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      02-18-2020, 10:26 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babym2 View Post
the GTS 4.0 doesnt perform, it runs a 7:40 Nurburgring and 12.5 quarter mile, those are horrible numbers for a 90K car.
Not good if true. Cayman's have always been underpowered. 911's have power. The CS has power.
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      02-18-2020, 11:03 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill in Marin View Post
Over here, an equivalently specced 4.0 will likely come in ~30% higher. Starting price is estimated closer to 100k vs 83k, and Porsche options are always another 10-20% .
No one is estimating the price of the GTS 4.0 to be closer to $100k than $83k - everyone is estimating it to be < $90k, considering the base price of the GT4 is $100k with destination.
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      02-18-2020, 11:17 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goku7 View Post
GTs 4.0 hands down. That car is made for manual enthusiasts
Agreed, tho I really hate the obnoxiously tall gearing of the GTS 4.0 (and GT4) - closer ratios would be nice (I don't need/want to do 80 mph in second gear ). The M2 CS is way overpriced, so I'd still take the GTS 4.0 over it; however, with that absurdly tall gearing, I'll continue holding out for the new (992) 911 T to become my M2's new best friend.
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      02-19-2020, 01:17 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babym2 View Post
the GTS 4.0 doesnt perform, it runs a 7:40 Nurburgring and 12.5 quarter mile, those are horrible numbers for a 90K car.
Sure in terms of quarter mile times; and also given the porker is NA it is not going to be easily/affordably tunable to improve upon these. But correct me if I am wrong the M2 comp set a 7:52.36 at the 'Ring whilst the m4 set 7.52.00: and I doubt that the M2cs will be ground breaking in this regard as //AVM said: the CS is not going to revolutionise the M2 chassis.

Ultimately though, despite starting this thread, I also have to agree it's not an apples to apples comparison. But it does become somewhat so if someone (like me) is cross shopping the two cars as a second sport/weekend car, doesn't want to spend time modding, just wants to spend the free time driving the wheels off the thing. If I were to get another M2 (with warranty) I think I would save the money for my kids and get an M2 comp - that is an awesome thing as it is, no need to factory bling with pointless carbon fibre and goldtastic wheels and get rinsed for £15000 (tongue in cheek).
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      02-19-2020, 12:01 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobert View Post
No one is estimating the price of the GTS 4.0 to be closer to $100k than $83k - everyone is estimating it to be < $90k, considering the base price of the GT4 is $100k with destination.
Fair enough. I just went through the configurator, and it doesn't take much to spec a Boxster S to 90K. The GT4 has fewer options, so I'll be curious to see where the GTS slots in, as it will likely include most Boxster S options but basic options will likely still push it right into GT4 territory.

I have a deposit and build sheet on a Taycan, and basic options on the 4S get you within spitting distance of the Turbo, and it's easy to spec a 4S to ~15-20K over the Turbo price. Porsche seems to have this price elasticity thing pretty well dialed in. I kind of hate Porsche for that. I never feel like you get a deal.
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      02-19-2020, 01:46 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill in Marin View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobert View Post
No one is estimating the price of the GTS 4.0 to be closer to $100k than $83k - everyone is estimating it to be < $90k, considering the base price of the GT4 is $100k with destination.
Fair enough. I just went through the configurator, and it doesn't take much to spec a Boxster S to 90K. The GT4 has fewer options, so I'll be curious to see where the GTS slots in, as it will likely include most Boxster S options but basic options will likely still push it right into GT4 territory.

I have a deposit and build sheet on a Taycan, and basic options on the 4S get you within spitting distance of the Turbo, and it's easy to spec a 4S to ~15-20K over the Turbo price. Porsche seems to have this price elasticity thing pretty well dialed in. I kind of hate Porsche for that. I never feel like you get a deal.
Hahaha!

Yes, Porsche builds a great sports car, but an even better cash register.

///AVM
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      02-19-2020, 04:47 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill in Marin View Post
Fair enough. I just went through the configurator, and it doesn't take much to spec a Boxster S to 90K. The GT4 has fewer options, so I'll be curious to see where the GTS slots in, as it will likely include most Boxster S options but basic options will likely still push it right into GT4 territory.

I have a deposit and build sheet on a Taycan, and basic options on the 4S get you within spitting distance of the Turbo, and it's easy to spec a 4S to ~15-20K over the Turbo price. Porsche seems to have this price elasticity thing pretty well dialed in. I kind of hate Porsche for that. I never feel like you get a deal.
Ha! You and Bill Gates apparently. I can't wait to see how the Taycan pans out.
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      03-02-2020, 08:15 PM   #18
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Quote:
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the GTS 4.0 doesnt perform, it runs a 7:40 Nurburgring and 12.5 quarter mile, those are horrible numbers for a 90K car.
And the people buying them could care less. As soon as my dealer confirms that I can get a GTS 4.0 allocation I'm taking my name off the list for the M2CS.

Going back and forth between my F80 and my ZHP, there's still a something about the ZHP's N/A powertrain that's much more satisfying than the F80. The 991.1S is the only other modern car I've driven that has the same engine linearity, precision, and response, and I'm expecting the 718 to be just as good. So what if I give up a few horsepower? That's not what I'm after, and that's not what the GTS 4.0 is about.
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      03-02-2020, 09:26 PM   #19
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I'd spend the extra $10k and get a GT4. Don't even need to look at the options list - GT Silver, Sport Buckets, Bose. Done.
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      03-03-2020, 06:36 AM   #20
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I'd spend the extra $10k and get a GT4. Don't even need to look at the options list - GT Silver, Sport Buckets, Bose. Done.
I look at the GTS 4.0 as basically a GT4 touring. It doesn't have the fancy suspension but everything else is there. Personally, there are three reasons I'm choosing a GTS rather than a GT4:

The GTS matches my usage pattern more closely, mostly street with 1-2 track days per year, and the roads around me are in bad shape.

The GTS is already near the top of my price comfort zone, and another ~15k would just be that much more.

I couldn't find a local dealer that would commit to giving me an allocation. If I could have, I would probably have ignored the first two reasons and gotten one anyway, but now that the 4.0 is out I'd rather have that car.
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      03-03-2020, 12:15 PM   #21
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Quote:
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I look at the GTS 4.0 as basically a GT4 touring. It doesn't have the fancy suspension but everything else is there. Personally, there are three reasons I'm choosing a GTS rather than a GT4:

The GTS matches my usage pattern more closely, mostly street with 1-2 track days per year, and the roads around me are in bad shape.

The GTS is already near the top of my price comfort zone, and another ~15k would just be that much more.

I couldn't find a local dealer that would commit to giving me an allocation. If I could have, I would probably have ignored the first two reasons and gotten one anyway, but now that the 4.0 is out I'd rather have that car.
It has significantly narrower tires, on Pirellis compared to Cup2's. It's limits are certainly lower which may make it more fun on the street. It also lacks the GT4's aero, the bucket seat option (the current GTS doesn't have this option, I believe they do in Europe)and the suspension as you mentioned.
The extra ground clearance would be nice for street driving compared to the GT4.

It's a fantastic car and I would love to own one, but for my usage (15 or so track days per year) the fully fledged GT car would be the better option. The other unknown with the GTS is depreciation, traditionally GT cars are more certain to retain value. May be different for the GTS 4.0 though, time will tell.

If I was going for a 4.0 purely for the street I'd be more tempted to go with the Boxster, top down sound would be glorious and you give up very little in the way of rigidity or weight.
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      03-03-2020, 11:31 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Montaver View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer20 View Post
I look at the GTS 4.0 as basically a GT4 touring. It doesn't have the fancy suspension but everything else is there. Personally, there are three reasons I'm choosing a GTS rather than a GT4:

The GTS matches my usage pattern more closely, mostly street with 1-2 track days per year, and the roads around me are in bad shape.

The GTS is already near the top of my price comfort zone, and another ~15k would just be that much more.

I couldn't find a local dealer that would commit to giving me an allocation. If I could have, I would probably have ignored the first two reasons and gotten one anyway, but now that the 4.0 is out I'd rather have that car.
It has significantly narrower tires, on Pirellis compared to Cup2's. It's limits are certainly lower which may make it more fun on the street. It also lacks the GT4's aero, the bucket seat option (the current GTS doesn't have this option, I believe they do in Europe)and the suspension as you mentioned.
The extra ground clearance would be nice for street driving compared to the GT4.

It's a fantastic car and I would love to own one, but for my usage (15 or so track days per year) the fully fledged GT car would be the better option. The other unknown with the GTS is depreciation, traditionally GT cars are more certain to retain value. May be different for the GTS 4.0 though, time will tell.

If I was going for a 4.0 purely for the street I'd be more tempted to go with the Boxster, top down sound would be glorious and you give up very little in the way of rigidity or weight.
If I did even 5-6 track days a year I'd be leaning towards the GT4, so I can't blame you on that.

The GTS has been available with bucket seats in the US since MY19, so this car should have them too.
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