[doug_999]

Originally Posted by Tainen

managed to get 2% discount off ED MSRP by sticking it out, asking all dealerships within a couple of states, and then my closest dealership, after an e-mail from the GM and a respectful explanation of where I'm at, agreed to it.

Yep, as noted, MSRP is not bad deal...

[atomsapple]

Originally Posted by Poochie

So I guess this is why auto manufactures are only allowed to sell "cat-back" exhausts that coincidently stop short at the catalyst, thus not interfere with it ..

Anything after the catalyst has nothing to do with emission compliance. Any and all piping after the cat is strictly for sound reduction only, NOT emissions.

Legally, you cannot decat or replace the catalytic converter with one that is less effective than the OEM one. The end.


CALM YOURSELF DOWN and find me some proof of anything you said.

It's all conjecture and a pointless attempt in justifying your illegal downpipe.

.

Would the OPF Filters not count as emissions? They are both after the catalytic converter and used for emissions, filtering carbon and of course, sound.

Even in California, which the strictest laws in the US, you can still legally swap out a downpipe.

https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/aftermarket-catalytic-converters

You can't slap any part on there, and each item must be EO approved but they do make them, https://ww3.arb.ca.gov/msprog/afterm...s/eo/d-763.pdf

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by atomsapple

Would the OPF Filters not count as emissions? They are both after the catalytic converter and used for emissions, filtering carbon and of course, sound.

Even in California, which the strictest laws in the US, you can still legally swap out a downpipe.

https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/aftermarket-catalytic-converters

You can't slap any part on there, and each item must be EO approved but they do make them, https://ww3.arb.ca.gov/msprog/afterm...s/eo/d-763.pdf

OPF is only installed in diesel powered vehicles in the US, so irrelevant to mention it.

You also are not allowed to alter or remove the OPF in countries that mandate them on gasoline engine, same a catalytic converter in North America.

I ran out of ways of explaining to you guys that your "sports" cat doesn't meet US EPA allowed smog standards, hence the reason it's only sold on the black-market and is not certified by the manufacture or EPA for approved usage.

Some guys are going around in circles attempting to justify your aftermarket downpipe. You already committed to it; at this juncture, no point in back-peddling..

Enjoy and move on.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by Poochie

You also are not allowed to alter or remove the OPF in countries that mandate them on gasoline engine, same a catalytic converter in North America.

Over here on the Old Continent, maximum emission levels for noise and CO2 are mandatory for homologation purposes. So manufacturers got no choice: they got to abide or the car cannot be legally put into the stream of commerce (remember the N55 in the base M2 from Sep 1, 2018 onwards, causing an M2 plot twist: M2 CS became M2 Competition, entry level M2 + no MPE on EUR-spec M2C). And neither do owners when they got to pass technical control (also required to pass if you want to resell your car). If you get caught by the cops, you can be forced to put your car back to original spec that meets emission levels.

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Over here on the Old Continent, maximum emission levels for noise and CO2 are mandatory for homologation purposes. So manufacturers got no choice: they got to abide or the car cannot be legally put into the stream of commerce (remember the N55 in the base M2 from Sep 1, 2018 onwards, causing an M2 plot twist: M2 CS became M2 Competition, entry level M2 + no MPE on EUR-spec M2C). And neither do owners when they got to pass technical control (also required to pass if you want to resell your car). If you get caught by the cops, you can be forced to put your car back to original spec that meets emission levels.

It's funny how topsy-turvy emissions laws have switched up between regions.

There use to be a time when European emission standards was stagnant and so relax, to the point where cars like a stock E46 M3 CLS was Euro 3 compliant (200 cell cats) but when converted to equivalent US standards, exceeded allowed smog standards, therefore not allowed.

Fast-forward to current times and Europe is the ones with the draconian emission standards while the US is more lenient. Go figure :

The US did allowed a few banned vehicles that exceeded the allowed pollution levels or crash-testing standards, on a case-by-case basis but you would have to had connections or deep pockets like Bill Gates...

http://www.autospies.com/news/Bill-G...-Porsche-3294/

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by Poochie

It's funny how topsy-turvy emissions laws have switched up between regions.
There use to be a time when European emission standards was stagnant and so relax, to the point where cars like a stock E46 M3 CLS was Euro 3 compliant (200 cell cats) but when converted to equivalent US standards, exceeded allowed smog standards, therefore not allowed.
Fast-forward to current times and Europe is the ones with the draconian emission standards while the US is more lenient. Go figure :
The US did allowed a few banned vehicles that exceeded the allowed pollution levels or crash-testing standards, on a case-by-case basis but you would have to had connections or deep pockets like Bill Gates...
http://www.autospies.com/news/Bill-G...-Porsche-3294/

The US will follow. The powers that be will have no choice in the future. All that's happening now is just some sort of embargo for the unstoppable. It's what is is. You'll see.

[atomsapple]

Originally Posted by Poochie

OPF is only installed in diesel powered vehicles in the US, so irrelevant to mention it.

You also are not allowed to alter or remove the OPF in countries that mandate them on gasoline engine, same a catalytic converter in North America.

I ran out of ways of explaining to you guys that your "sports" cat doesn't meet US EPA allowed smog standards, hence the reason it's only sold on the black-market and is not certified by the manufacture or EPA for approved usage.

Some guys are going around in circles attempting to justify your aftermarket downpipe. You already committed to it; at this juncture, no point in back-peddling..

Enjoy and move on.

It's not irrelevant at all, you made a claim of nothing behind the CC being for emissions which is false.

I also provided you with documentation for carb approved down pipes as you noted needing proof, and then dismissed it.

We are all enthusiasts here and every state and country law is different, but sweeping generalizations aren't helping anyone.

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by atomsapple

It's not irrelevant at all, you made a claim of nothing behind the CC being for emissions which is false.

I also provided you with documentation for carb approved down pipes as you noted needing proof, and then dismissed it.

We are all enthusiasts here and every state and country law is different, but sweeping generalizations aren't helping anyone.

I read what you linked, bro.. And according to my research Magaflow is only aftermarket company that sells a CARB approved downpipe.
So how does that support your argument, hence the reason I didn't address it.

The simple phrase "for off-road use only" is the only thing that allows these other companies to sell aftermarket parts and modify cars. Since modifying or altering any smog equipment is 100% illegal unless the car is "for off-road use only" Its a very simple loop hole.

Before California passed the law that every catalytic converter needs to be stamped with a CARB#, you could have gotten away with an aftermarket downpipe with a CAT before that law. California made this new law because by altering the size of the pipe, location of the CAT, or not same quality of materials it makes the CAT less effective and in turn pollutes more.

Let just end this friendly debate because we're never going to see eye-to-eye on the facts and I feel like coming off like I'm on some tree-hugging crusade, which I'm not.

I just like to get the facts right, wherever they might lead.

[atomsapple]

Originally Posted by Poochie

I read what you linked, bro.. And according to my research Magaflow is only aftermarket company that sells a CARB approved downpipe.
So how does that support your argument, hence the reason I didn't address it.

The simple phrase "for off-road use only" is the only thing that allows these other companies to sell aftermarket parts and modify cars. Since modifying or altering any smog equipment is 100% illegal unless the car is "for off-road use only" Its a very simple loop hole.

Before California passed the law that every catalytic converter needs to be stamped with a CARB#, you could have gotten away with an aftermarket downpipe with a CAT before that law. California made this new law because by altering the size of the pipe, location of the CAT, or not same quality of materials it makes the CAT less effective and in turn pollutes more.

Let just end this friendly debate because we're never going to see eye-to-eye on the facts and I feel like coming off like I'm on so tree-hugging crusade, which I'm not; I just like to get the facts right, wherever they might lead.

Nah you just come across as someone trying to educate people on emissions laws, nothing negative.

I'd love to run a catless DP on my car but the little tree hugger in me wouldn't allow it.

Hopefully this AA midpipe and ASD bypass I have waiting to go on will help with the sound.