[hans007]

Originally Posted by W///

I literally never go to Jalopnik. Can't take anything these supposed car guys write

they definitely target a certain demographic.

i admit i'll still go there since occasionally they have a decent article.

but its fairly obvious they target the "uber american patriot" type with all the random military vehicle / airplane posts, and i think every single tavarish post is terrible. i can't wait until i see a would you rather buy a brand new M2 or a used blah blah blah post

[Pol]

Thank you! Most realistic review I read so far. M3/M4 - M2 : different cars, different handling, different needs.

[gearboxtrouble]

Thank you for the great writeup OP. I was wondering if you ever got the chance to do the 2 day school in Greenville? I just finished that and had a blast. I definitely want to do more and was wondering if doing the West Coast school would add anything. I was also considering other PDCs like Porsche's Alabama school. Anybody have any suggestions?

[Racer20]

Who says the M4 is a boat? I've never read anything that calls it a boat on a racetrack. It's very competent, even bone stock.

[LDSM]

Originally Posted by Racer20

Who says the M4 is a boat? I've never read anything that calls it a boat on a racetrack. It's very competent, even bone stock.

You're right, no review has ever used the term boat to describe the M4. I was referring to the sentiment that I came to after reading various reviews, like Jalopnik saying "It is hands down better than the M4, which has turned into more of a grand tourer than a sports car." or Matt Farah in his M4 one take videos, always making mention of the larger size, then praising the size of an m235 when he drove that. And a few other reviews mentioning the bigger size the M3/4 has taken on, and lines like "save $14,000 and skip the M4." Along with reading discussions on here where people would mention the M3/4's has gotten as big as the old e39 M5, and the M2 is more along the size the e49 M3. This all affected me and I carried the belief of the M3/4 being a bigger/ less agile/ less fun car into my initial drives.

But like you stated, and I hope my point came across, after driving both, my expectations of the M3/4 where shattered. It's extremely competent, fun and agile on the track.

Originally Posted by gearboxtrouble

Thank you for the great writeup OP. I was wondering if you ever got the chance to do the 2 day school in Greenville?

I've only done the Greenville Performance Center Delivery, so it's nowhere as intensive as a full m school. What I liked about the California location over the SC location is that it's a full fledged proper racetrack. You'll probably go over the same concepts at both locations, but to me it would be worth it to go to Thermal for the track alone. Also if you can, sign up for the Advanced M school, I believe it's even more full track time than the standard M school.

[Racer20]

Originally Posted by LDSM

You're right, no review has ever used the term boat to describe the M4. I was referring to the sentiment that I came to after reading various reviews, like Jalopnik saying "It is hands down better than the M4, which has turned into more of a grand tourer than a sports car." or Matt Farah in his M4 one take videos, always making mention of the larger size, then praising the size of an m235 when he drove that.

Makes sense. I have a 228i THP and an M3, and the first thing I said when I sat in the 2 series is "I wish my M3 were this size", but that said, the M3 doesn't drive like a big car, especially on the track. I'll probably try to find a way to test drive an m2 this summer. I'm sure it's an awesome car too.

[Sedan_Clan]

Nice write-up.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by Racer20

Who says the M4 is a boat? I've never read anything that calls it a boat on a racetrack. It's very competent, even bone stock.

An M5 is also very competent on a race track.

Have you been in an M6 Grand Coupe on a race track ? I have !

M3- M4- M5- M6 are all boats, some bigger ships that bothers,


m4 is a boat when compared with an M2, which is the closest thing since the 1M to what the original M3 was. Today's C class is also a boat, hence the CLA. And the same with the A4, hence the A3.. BMW wasn't smart enough to make their series a little smaller and to make a 4 door / aka gran coupe however..

Or maybe they were . Does anyone ever talk about the C class anymore or is it all CLA ?

Would anyone talk about the M3 if there was an M2 gran coupe ?

[Robin_NL]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

An M5 is also very competent on a race track.

Have you been in an M6 Grand Coupe on a race track ? I have !

M3- M4- M5- M6 are all boats, some bigger ships that bothers,


m4 is a boat when compared with an M2, which is the closest thing since the 1M to what the original M3 was. Today's C class is also a boat, hence the CLA. And the same with the A4, hence the A3.. BMW wasn't smart enough to make their series a little smaller and to make a 4 door / aka gran coupe however..

Or maybe they were . Does anyone ever talk about the C class anymore or is it all CLA ?

Would anyone talk about the M3 if there was an M2 gran coupe ?

M2 is a Riva and the rest are Titanics





Cheers
Robin (old sailor)

[ajvdh]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

An M5 is also very competent on a race track.

Have you been in an M6 Grand Coupe on a race track ? I have !

Me too. Maybe even at the same event (the press intro which coincided with the BMW CCA school at COTA a few years ago). The format was interesting: Up to three passengers; out lap, one hot lap, in lap.

Here's what impressed me: The ceramic brakes. Four full-sized adults in a heavy car reaching an impressive velocity, and it would stand on its nose braking for turn 12.

Here's what didn't: Late in the day, when there were no riders waiting, the driver decided he could treat us to more than one hot lap. On the 2nd one, the check engine light came on, and the car went into "limp" mode.

So far, it doesn't sound like that's gonna be an issue with the M2.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by ajvdh

Me too. Maybe even at the same event (the press intro which coincided with the BMW CCA school at COTA a few years ago). The format was interesting: Up to three passengers; out lap, one hot lap, in lap.

Here's what impressed me: The ceramic brakes. Four full-sized adults in a heavy car reaching an impressive velocity, and it would stand on its nose braking for turn 12.

Here's what didn't: Late in the day, when there were no riders waiting, the driver decided he could treat us to more than one hot lap. On the 2nd one, the check engine light came on, and the car went into "limp" mode.

So far, it doesn't sound like that's gonna be an issue with the M2.

Yes! At COTA.

Actually that particular issue may have been brake related. I have had it happen on my 1M.


I presume that later in the day those same pads were low based on either CBS data or due to physical pad sensors, but still safe from a visual perspective. One of my rides was late in the day and they were checking pads visually and ignoring the low pad warning and Low brake indicators. In my car the parking brake light comes on Amber originally and then stays red.

I went to the Texas trifecta at COTA last year with pads at around 40 percent intending to run them down on day one and then change them to new pads for days two and three. I Got a pad warning after two sessions. Looked and figured no big deal got enough for two more. Went out the next lap with a student and the car went into limp mode after one lap. WTF.

Came in the paddock and looked the car over and all fine. Went out next session with a groans and it happened again (WTH!) and I came back in and parked it. Then I realized the stupid car was going into limp mode because I was neglecting the pads and the computers brake warnings!.

I changed the pads, (which had around 30 percent left) and replaced the sensors and went back out and all was fine.

THESE DAMN CARS ARE TOO SMART NOW

[3tekcorps]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

An M5 is also very competent on a race track.

Have you been in an M6 Grand Coupe on a race track ? I have !

M3- M4- M5- M6 are all boats, some bigger ships that bothers,


m4 is a boat when compared with an M2, which is the closest thing since the 1M to what the original M3 was. Today's C class is also a boat, hence the CLA. And the same with the A4, hence the A3.. BMW wasn't smart enough to make their series a little smaller and to make a 4 door / aka gran coupe however..

Or maybe they were . Does anyone ever talk about the C class anymore or is it all CLA ?

Would anyone talk about the M3 if there was an M2 gran coupe ?

I just don't see how shaving off 100 pounds and a little shorter wheel base gets the M2 into another category. I wonder how much of it is psychological as the car appears to be much smaller, even though the mass is almost identical.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by 3tekcorps

I just don't see how shaving off 100 pounds and a little shorter wheel base gets the M2 into another category. I wonder how much of it is psychological as the car appears to be much smaller, even though the mass is almost identical.

I guess that's part of the issue is that the M4 and M2 are way too close to each other.

The E30 M3 and the E24 M6 and E28 M5 were all distinctly different vehicles.

Today, we have the F8x M4, F8x M3 but the F8X M2 (which is being trotted out to represent the E30 M3) is definitely stepping on the toes of the bigger brother.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by 3tekcorps

I just don't see how shaving off 100 pounds and a little shorter wheel base gets the M2 into another category. I wonder how much of it is psychological as the car appears to be much smaller, even though the mass is almost identical.

A shorter wheel base has this tendency to make the driver feel that he is driving a go kart... and the car does indeed feel more tossable with this setup even if the weight is the same, however; this directly affects stability as well.

A 335 and a 135 feel much much different for that reason... some prefer one others prefer the other.

[3tekcorps]

Originally Posted by ASAP

A shorter wheel base has this tendency to make the driver feel that he is driving a go kart... and the car does indeed feel more tossable with this setup even if the weight is the same, however; this directly affects stability as well.

A 335 and a 135 feel much much different for that reason... some prefer one others prefer the other.

I've never owned a sports car over 2500 pounds so these all seem like boats to me. When people talk about Go Karts I'm thinking it must be under 2,000 pounds, not 3400.

I hope it does feel light and nimble though.

[pruettfan]

Thanks for the review. Great to hear practical point of view from someone who has experience driving the M235i and of course now the M4 in addition.

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by Racer20

Who says the M4 is a boat? I've never read anything that calls it a boat on a racetrack. It's very competent, even bone stock.

Everyone always says how big the M3/M4 are. Even tho it's not much bigger than the e92 and definitely IS and FEELs lighter. Just a lot of haterade from people who have not driven it or have not driven it more than a test drive in base settings.

I honestly think if the M3/M4 had the exhaust tone of the M2 at launch it would have been a much more popular car than it already is.

[M///Fanatic]

Pretty awesome! Thanks for sharing!

[aus]

OP forgot to mention the TERRIBLE exhaust sound of the F8x compared to the M2.
BMW brought one out to Chuckwalla last weekend with the BMW CCA. It's a GREAT looking car and sounds WAY better than the F8x... which just sounds Turrible as Chuck would say.

Anyone in the LA, San Diego, San Fran area, all these CCA chapters are running one day BMW Performance driving events for CHEAP at Thermal. It was around $200 when I went a few months ago. It was a decent event geared mainly for people who have never been on track. It was only one session on track with F8x; other stations included a drag race, really nice autocross skip pad and a tight track. Sounds like OP had more track time at his event.
.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by dmk08

Everyone always says how big the M3/M4 are. Even tho it's not much bigger than the e92 and definitely IS and FEELs lighter. Just a lot of haterade from people who have not driven it or have not driven it more than a test drive in base settings.

I honestly think if the M3/M4 had the exhaust tone of the M2 at launch it would have been a much more popular car than it already is.

I love how people still try and discount the mass that the masses see and feel.

" I don't know why everyone says this car is heavy !! "

Ummm perhaps because everyone knows that the car IS heavy ?

" It feels so light on its feet it doesn't feel as big as it is "

Great! You got a dance with Ashley Graham and you found out that she is light on her feet. Nice !

That might be great for you, but some guys might prefer Ronda Rousey or even Hailey Clauson...

@racer20


Just in case you have forgotten, the M3 began as hot pocket rocket , and it has been moved by BMW into what previously was a 5 series sedan shape and the current 5 series is nearly a 7.

[Robin_NL]

I'm currently driving an M4 DCT I must say this beauty is more GT than sporty even though the engine is a blast. I already knew that. And its competition is to fear.

BUT It won't come close to the agility/connection with the road/steering/feel the 1M has, not in 100 years
It's disconnected but planted, it's powerful but it doesn't make you feel it has power, it's pointy, but remote...

I now hope the M2 has more of 1M genes than M4 genes...

Cheers
Robin

[paradoxical3]

Had a friend that was at BMW training in Thermal Springs and heard direct from the M bigwigs that early development M2 had S55 in it but it outperformed the M4 significantly on track, thus the reduced power output for the current model. I thought it was interesting he told me that as it's the first confirmation I have heard to that German forum rumor that so many discounted.

Another interesting thing - current M2 pulls over 1.1g on every corner on the Nurburgring.