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M2 Technical Topics > Suspension | Brakes | Chassis > 2NH M Sport Brakes & M Performance Parts Brakes: bigger and ± 16 kg / 35 lbs extra

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      05-21-2018, 03:31 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
The question is... is stopping capability of the car actually improved...? or is this just keeping up with the extra 150 lbs..

hopefully there are actual improvements to be gained... There seems to be a reason that they are an included " upgrade" in many markets.. possibly because they are needed...
Doesn't the fact these things weigh an extra 35lbs, prove that theory wrong. Take them off and you are at M4 weight. They don't seem to need them on the M4. Could it be that M is actually trying to offer its buyers a performance upgrade?
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      05-21-2018, 03:35 PM   #68
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BMW, are you listening?

This whole thread is confirmation that if you are considering the brake upgrade as standard in the US model, you should instead reduce the base price by the cost of that upgrade and offer it as an option.
There is a STRONG contingent here who would rather not have the upgraded brakes for one reason or another. (But obviously you would piss people off if you decided to make them an option but kept the base price the same).

There we go, folks - our collective plea has been made. This solution gives you the option without an increase in price (actually a reduction if you opt out).
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      05-21-2018, 03:35 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beppeM3+123d View Post
On the f15 the brake set upgrade is not so expensive, what will be the cost of this option??
It depends some countries they are standard, built into msrp. Country like Belgium they are optional. 2NH M Sport brakes => €1.347,11
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      05-21-2018, 03:36 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavpilot2k View Post
BMW, are you listening?

This whole thread is confirmation that if you are considering the brake upgrade as standard in the US model, you should instead reduce the base price by the cost of that upgrade and offer it as an option.
There is a STRONG contingent here who would rather not have the upgraded brakes for one reason or another. (But obviously you would piss people off if you decided to make them an option but kept the base price the same).

There we go, folks - our collective plea has been made. This solution gives you the option without an increase in price (actually a reduction if you opt out).
At the leaked msrp price, they should be included.
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      05-21-2018, 03:42 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3_WC View Post
Doesn't the fact these things weigh an extra 35lbs, prove that theory wrong. Take them off and you are at M4 weight. They don't seem to need them on the M4. Could it be that M is actually trying to offer its buyers a performance upgrade?
it could also be that they are trying to eliminate green caliper syndrome.. I am not sure if that's an issue that has (also) occurred on the M3/M4.

PS.. the M2 Competition motor is detuned... (ahem.. weight optimised in BMW speak) and is not providing the full M3/M4 power and no reason has been provided for that either..
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      05-21-2018, 03:44 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
it could also be that they are trying to eliminate green caliper syndrome..
I am not sure if that's an issue that has (also) occurred on the M3/M4.
They are the same brakes but there are far fewer complaints about the blue brakes on the M3/M4. I think there is better airflow to cool them on the M3/M4.
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      05-21-2018, 03:46 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
They are the same brakes but there are far fewer complaints about the blue brakes on the M3/M4. I think there is better airflow to cool them on the M3/M4.
which perhaps explains why the M2 comp motor is detuned...

also explains why bigger brakes might be needed with the twin turbo motor..

also explains why vented fenders are available in the M performance catalog, to go over those bigger brakes...
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      05-21-2018, 03:53 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
thanks for helping define the weight gain in the car... it appears 120 lbs is due to the motor and associated cooling.. .. and another 30 lbs is due to brakes if the 2NH kit is included on the US car as it is in Canada. As stated above... just because BMW is adding these changes.. doesn't mean the absolute performance of the M2 competition will be greatly changed vs the OG M2.

Indeed.. I surely hope that the changes will result in measurable changes in performance, it will be interesting to see instrumented reviews.
A solid 25-30lbs maybe more can be attributed just to the exhaust changes. Single vs dual path, twice the piping and cats. The muffler is also considerably bigger than the OG M2. Like you said cooling upgrades, all stuff related to S55. Honestly I don't doubt for a second the M2C is going to rip and put up numbers/laptimes far exceeding BMW's underrated numbers, but that is just my opinion. Interested to see what Randy does with it at Laguna Seca, hopefully they get one for Best Drivers Car comparo.
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      05-21-2018, 03:55 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
They are the same brakes but there are far fewer complaints about the blue brakes on the M3/M4. I think there is better airflow to cool them on the M3/M4.
I seen the green brakes numerous times on the M4 forum. They were the ones to first have it happen.
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      05-21-2018, 03:56 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
PS.. the M2 Competition motor is detuned... (ahem.. weight optimised in BMW speak) and is not providing the full M3/M4 power and no reason has been provided for that either..
I think you know the answer to that. Starts with a M.
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      05-21-2018, 05:46 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackJetE90 View Post
I seen the green brakes numerous times on the M4 forum. They were the ones to first have it happen.
Exactly! It happened to every single M3/M4 I have seen on the track including mine (except for beginners who don't really push the car and those who have CCBs).
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      05-21-2018, 05:48 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by BlackJetE90 View Post
I seen the green brakes numerous times on the M4 forum. They were the ones to first have it happen.
Yeah I meant that they complain less about the braking performance, not the cheap paint job
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      05-21-2018, 06:13 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by Dermator View Post
Nice pictures! Did your brake fade in the mountains?
The majority of my 35K kms so far with my M2: German Autobahn and mountains.

On long Authobahn drives (many consecutive hours of driving) I experience some mild brake vibration and mild fading after some time, as a result from repeated braking at very high speed. Why 'repeated braking' and not simply releasing the throttle to slow down ? Well, I guess you know how the Autobahn works: once you get the famous "no speed limit" sign you can take your car all the way to the limit (± 270 km/h for a delimited M2), of course depending on road conditions and road traffic (safety first). But at some point a speed limit sign shows up out of the blue and you must decelerate quite quickly to abide to it (you certainly don't want German police to stop you for speeding). If you see it from faraway you can simply release the throttle and eventually mildly brake, but sometimes you got to slam the brakes. Or another road user forgot to use the mirrors and suddenly moves to the left lane upon your approach, requiring you to slam the brakes. For other's safety and your own safety, you got to anticipate all the time that those things can happen. Also lots of road works require you to slow down (mostly announced in advance). And subsequently there's the "no speed limit" sign again, or the slower car moved to the right again, and you can floor the throttle again. This acceleration/deceleration pattern goes on and on if you fancy a spirited Autobahn drive (but sometimes you prefer to cruise at high speed instead of very high speed). As you can imagine, those repeated hard decelerations strain the brake pads: energy - heat. And so after some time you hear this kind of 'voooaaam' noise when hitting the brakes, whilst experiencing a mild vibration under your right foot pushing the brake pedal (and sometimes some mild fading too if intense decelerations have been frequent).

Mountain drives: even during stints ranging from 8 up to 12 hours, my M2 brakes keep up quite well for me. Of course you got those variations: uphill driving, downhill driving (more demanding for brakes), cruising through valleys, chilly temps way up high, hot temps in the valleys. But IMHO it mostly depends on your braking behavior. Alike karting: don't overuse the brakes. When following a car in the mountains, you can fairly easily spot if the driver is used to mountain driving: those who don't brake often whilst keeping a steady pace through the turns. And if you notice a burning smell or even see smoke evaporating from the front wheels: no good (the driver in front of you is cooking his/her brakes).

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
The question is... is stopping capability of the car actually improved...? or is this just keeping up with the extra 150 lbs..
I'm interested to get the new M Performance Brakes ("BMW M Compound Brake Discs of the BMW M Sports Brake System Red") for my M2 to optimize the brake capacity. Even with the extra 16 kg compared to my current standard brakes, my car will still be lighter when compared to a similarly equipped M2 Competition with standard brakes.

This was last Saturday (encountering rain and sun in the Dolomites the same day):
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      05-21-2018, 06:22 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
it could also be that they are trying to eliminate green caliper syndrome.. I am not sure if that's an issue that has (also) occurred on the M3/M4.
Mine are grey-ish blue: the brake dust caliper syndrome.
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      05-21-2018, 06:36 PM   #81
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If Mercedes could make calipers that could handle fire, it's possible BMW could engineer some calipers that don't change color on the track.. #sad

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      05-21-2018, 06:43 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
And so after some time you hear this kind of 'voooaaam' noise when hitting the brakes, whilst experiencing a mild vibration under your right foot pushing the brake pedal (and sometimes some mild fading too if intense decelerations have been frequent).
Sounds like your ABS doing its thing.
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      05-21-2018, 06:51 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
If Mercedes could make calipers that could handle fire, it's possible BMW could engineer some calipers that don't change color on the track.. #sad
For some reason or another BMW cheaped out standard brake finish. I've seen discoloration on STi Brembo calipers as well. Porsche Brembos don't seem to have same problem, they must use a higher quality coating.
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      05-21-2018, 06:55 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by Tag View Post
Sounds like your ABS doing its thing.
Nope, that ain't ABS. I know the 'marbles-massaging-my-foot' feel of ABS.

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      05-21-2018, 06:58 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
If Mercedes could make calipers that could handle fire, it's possible BMW could engineer some calipers that don't change color on the track.. #sad
[VIDEO]
M2 test mule pushed at dusk at the Nürburgring (Wehrseifen section) - Spring 2015 test sessions:

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      05-21-2018, 07:10 PM   #86
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Does either the standard blues or the upgraded option suffer from knock back?
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      05-21-2018, 08:14 PM   #87
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You'll need the big brake kit to help stop the car with the extra weight of those big brakes...oh wait!
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      05-21-2018, 11:33 PM   #88
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Might be worth it to consider lightweight rims to offset the unsprung mass gain? Of course that's more $$$
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