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      10-10-2019, 08:45 PM   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VisualEcho View Post
Can anyone speak to the quality of the CELLS themselves in the Wagner? My salesman at Fabspeed is making it out to be a huge quality difference between Wagner and Fabspeed, like the Wagner will eventually fall apart, and the Fabspeed will last as long as the factory cat and has a much better warranty.

I don't care about the CEL, I'm getting BM3 anyway, what I care about is quality. But if they both have identical internals, there is no reason to get the Fabspeed over the Wagner if you're getting a tune, right?

Can someone speak to this? Are the really identical inside just because they are Euro 6?
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Originally Posted by kpaso View Post
That salesman is full of it.

Fabspeed use the best cats on the market (HJS)

Wagner use very high quality cats as well (Euro 6)

Nothing to worry about with Wagner downpipe
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      10-10-2019, 09:45 PM   #134
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Originally Posted by VisualEcho View Post
Can anyone speak to the quality of the CELLS themselves in the Wagner? My salesman at Fabspeed is making it out to be a huge quality difference between Wagner and Fabspeed, like the Wagner will eventually fall apart, and the Fabspeed will last as long as the factory cat and has a much better warranty.

I don't care about the CEL, I'm getting BM3 anyway, what I care about is quality. But if they both have identical internals, there is no reason to get the Fabspeed over the Wagner if you're getting a tune, right?

Can someone speak to this? Are the really identical inside just because they are Euro 6?
If I'm not mistaken, Euro 6 is just a certification declaring that it meets certain standards during use. Although I have not hidden my distaste for Fabspeed's warranty practices, they use HJS manufactured cats which are deemed the best of the best in the business in terms of durability and longevity. Wagner uses some other brand, not sure which but its not HJS
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      10-10-2019, 09:45 PM   #135
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Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com View Post
Fabspeed use the best cats on the market (HJS)

Wagner use very high quality cats as well (Euro 6)

Nothing to worry about with Wagner downpipe
Here's a few quotes from the salesperson. Keep in mind, I'm not trying to throw this guy under the bus, I just want to make sure I'm buying something that isn't going to cause my car issues in the future, and if the Wagner will, then I won't be purchasing it. But if it won't, then why not save the coin if I'm getting a flash anyway?

"Our product is in a completely different league of reliability than Wagner. There is no comparison. This is also why we offer a lifetime warranty and they don't. Wagner knows they cant compensate for the amount of the issues that come with their cats. We have our cats on thousands of cars and never have issues outside of customer installation mistakes."

"We have had customers purchase the Wagner system, then have an issue (the cat design breaking apart in the downpipe) and end up purchasing our system. I have seen a large amount of Wagner systems fail (including mine)."
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      10-10-2019, 09:48 PM   #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VisualEcho View Post
Here's a few quotes from the salesperson. Keep in mind, I'm not trying to throw this guy under the bus, I just want to make sure I'm buying something that isn't going to cause my car issues in the future, and if the Wagner will, then I won't be purchasing it. But if it won't, then why not save the coin if I'm getting a flash anyway?

"Our product is in a completely different league of reliability than Wagner. There is no comparison. This is also why we offer a lifetime warranty and they don't. Wagner knows they cant compensate for the amount of the issues that come with their cats. We have our cats on thousands of cars and never have issues outside of customer installation mistakes."

"We have had customers purchase the Wagner system, then have an issue (the cat design breaking apart in the downpipe) and end up purchasing our system. I have seen a large amount of Wagner systems fail (including mine)."
If your car is stock or uses a piggyback, i recommend the Fabspeed downpipe. Its the most reliable downpipe when it comes to CEL

If you car is tuned with BM3, Wagner downpipe is my number 1 option

Both cats are very reliable. They wont break and cause issues. The main difference is CEL. Fabspeed is more reliable when it comes to not throwing a CEL.
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      10-10-2019, 11:28 PM   #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VisualEcho View Post
Here's a few quotes from the salesperson. Keep in mind, I'm not trying to throw this guy under the bus, I just want to make sure I'm buying something that isn't going to cause my car issues in the future, and if the Wagner will, then I won't be purchasing it. But if it won't, then why not save the coin if I'm getting a flash anyway?

"Our product is in a completely different league of reliability than Wagner. There is no comparison. This is also why we offer a lifetime warranty and they don't. Wagner knows they cant compensate for the amount of the issues that come with their cats. We have our cats on thousands of cars and never have issues outside of customer installation mistakes."

"We have had customers purchase the Wagner system, then have an issue (the cat design breaking apart in the downpipe) and end up purchasing our system. I have seen a large amount of Wagner systems fail (including mine)."
FYI good thread to read through to see how fabspeed deals with their so called "never have issues" and the run around given for a simple warranty claim:
CEL on FS Downpipe!!

Not saying they have a bad product since I used to have their sport cat before going catless.
Like what Mike said. if you're stock tuned and don't want the CEL get the fabspeed since they have a proven track record with very low instances of CEL.
Wagner has higher chance of CEL. If you're tuned get the wager and save some coin since you can hide the O2 CEL with the ECU tune
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      10-11-2019, 09:25 AM   #138
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never had a problem with the catted Fabspeed DP, nor have anyone else that i know that went with the catted DP..... just like any other product the people that are satisfied wont say much, the people that have a setback make noise and cry foul on online forums.

So yea, use that one example as your guide
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      10-11-2019, 07:48 PM   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VisualEcho View Post
Here's a few quotes from the salesperson. Keep in mind, I'm not trying to throw this guy under the bus, I just want to make sure I'm buying something that isn't going to cause my car issues in the future, and if the Wagner will, then I won't be purchasing it. But if it won't, then why not save the coin if I'm getting a flash anyway?

"Our product is in a completely different league of reliability than Wagner. There is no comparison. This is also why we offer a lifetime warranty and they don't. Wagner knows they cant compensate for the amount of the issues that come with their cats. We have our cats on thousands of cars and never have issues outside of customer installation mistakes."

"We have had customers purchase the Wagner system, then have an issue (the cat design breaking apart in the downpipe) and end up purchasing our system. I have seen a large amount of Wagner systems fail (including mine)."
Since when does Fabspeed have a lifetime warranty on the cat??? I was told it is 2yr or 10,000 miles.
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      10-11-2019, 11:12 PM   #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony1s View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by VisualEcho View Post
Here's a few quotes from the salesperson. Keep in mind, I'm not trying to throw this guy under the bus, I just want to make sure I'm buying something that isn't going to cause my car issues in the future, and if the Wagner will, then I won't be purchasing it. But if it won't, then why not save the coin if I'm getting a flash anyway?

"Our product is in a completely different league of reliability than Wagner. There is no comparison. This is also why we offer a lifetime warranty and they don't. Wagner knows they cant compensate for the amount of the issues that come with their cats. We have our cats on thousands of cars and never have issues outside of customer installation mistakes."

"We have had customers purchase the Wagner system, then have an issue (the cat design breaking apart in the downpipe) and end up purchasing our system. I have seen a large amount of Wagner systems fail (including mine)."
Since when does Fabspeed have a lifetime warranty on the cat??? I was told it is 2yr or 10,000 miles.
They obvious didn't say that; I've deal with a lot of vendors here including FS and they never bash their competitors, even when you provoke it.

And beside, I remember your thread regarding the issue you had with your FS pipe, among others and recalled they barely have a 'warranty', let alone lifetime assurance. Regardless, their professionalism is always top notch.
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      10-12-2019, 08:33 AM   #141
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They obvious didn't say that; I've deal with a lot of vendors here including FS and they never bash their competitors, even when you provoke it.
Are you saying I misquoted the salesman?

And the second part of what you wrote doesn't make sense, I haven't purchased a DP yet.
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      10-12-2019, 09:14 AM   #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VisualEcho View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
They obvious didn't say that; I've deal with a lot of vendors here including FS and they never bash their competitors, even when you provoke it.
Are you saying I misquoted the salesman?

And the second part of what you wrote doesn't make sense, I haven't purchased a DP yet.
Respectfully, yes; I don't believe any 'salesperson' said that verbatim, as you quoted him.

The mannerism of which you describe doesn't match my interaction with any vendors l have experience and I've never read a post here where one merchant bashes their competitor's product.

The part where the salesperson's claim that Fabspeed downpipes includes a lifetime guarantee couldn't be further from fact and just supports my suspicion.

Any performance part sales person that's worth their salt knows that a catted downpipe has a finite shelf-life and it would not be cost-effectively offer a limitless assurance.

However, if you want to prove me wrong, please share some evidence of this conversation, since there should be a trail of your communication, such as PM or email. I'm sort of curious and will be the first to apologize for doubting your claim.

But I'm guessing this is the part where you tell me that it was an unverifiable phone or face-to-face conversation, any corroborate is purely anecdotal and we're just going to have to take your word for it.

So let's just forget it, move on and not let this fester into a pointless back and forth.
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      10-12-2019, 12:52 PM   #143
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Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
Respectfully, yes; I don't believe any 'salesperson' said that verbatim, as you quoted him.
I think you need to check yourself before you call me a liar bro. You don't even know me, and will not likely ever.
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      10-12-2019, 01:21 PM   #144
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Respectfully, yes; I don't believe any 'salesperson' said that verbatim, as you quoted him.
You don't even know me, and will not likely ever.
I'll try to live with the disappointment on that..

Well, I am sincerely sorry I doubted you.. I guess I'm the shithead. I honestly wouldn't of believe it unless I saw it, nothing personal.

I'm truly flabbergasted how full of shit Fabspeed staff truly is! Just for the record, they don't offer anything such as a "lifetime warranty" on any of their products. I can't believe someone actually typed that with a strait face.

Anyone that ever had an issue with their product can attest to the hoops they forced to jump though to even get them to even acknowledged the issue. And they usually only respond when put on blast in the Court of Public opinion i.e. forums.

I didn't fault them for having a hiccup every now and then, after all, I don't much faith in any aftermarket product, especially an illegal device meant to circumvent federal emissions control standards. But criticizing another manufacture when your product isn't exactly flawless just shows how low they're willing to stoop to make a buck.

Sometimes it only takes one moment to see who they truly are. #Sad


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      10-12-2019, 01:48 PM   #145
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Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
I'll try to live with the disappointment on that..

Well, I am sincerely sorry I doubted you.. I guess I'm the shithead. I honestly wouldn't of believe it unless I saw it, nothing personal.

I'm truly flabbergasted how full of shit Fabspeed staff truly is! Just for the record, they don't offer anything such as a "lifetime warranty" on any of their products. I can't believe someone actually typed that with a strait face.

Anyone that ever had an issue with their product can attest to the hoops they force their customers to jump though to even get them acknowledged the issue. And they usually only respond when put on blast in the Court of Public opinion i.e. forums.

I didn't fault them for having a hiccup every now and then, after all, I don't much faith in any aftermarket product, especially an illegal device meant to circumvent federal emissions control standards. But criticizing another manufacture when your product isn't exactly flawless just shows how low they're willing to stoop to make a buck.

Sometimes it only takes one moment to see who they truly are. #Sad


https://www.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...php?p=23888913
My interpretation is that Fabspeed's lifetime warranty is only for manufacturing defects. If you/they can prove a manufacturing defect caused the cat to fail, then you should be okay. But that seems impossible to do, because you can't verify the inside of a cat is good upon arrival of the dp. Unless you take it apart and test/inspect it yourself or something before installing. Which would void the warranty anyway.

From what I read here, there is no lifetime warranty on the cat other than if the problem is caused by a manufacturing defect. Though I do remember them saying there is a 2yr/10,000mi warranty on the cat... they must've changed it.

Also, what I'm reading now, is that they won't warranty a previous generation cat. So if Fabspeed decides to use a different cat in their current product line in the future, your warranty is void on any dp you purchased before. In this case, it seems they will give you a discount on purchasing a new cat. Kinda crappy.

https://www.fabspeed.com/terms-conditions/
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      10-12-2019, 01:49 PM   #146
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I'm not trying to throw the guy under the bus, I think it's obvious that they offer the highest quality down-pipe available with the least amount of CEL instances, I just don't see a need for it when I'm eventually going to get BM3. So for me it's an easy choice.
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      10-12-2019, 01:56 PM   #147
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Originally Posted by VisualEcho View Post
I'm not trying to throw the guy under the bus, I think it's obvious that they offer the highest quality down-pipe available with the least amount of CEL instances, I just don't see a need for it when I'm eventually going to get BM3. So for me it's an easy choice.
I don't think bm3 auto-clears any codes. Correct me if I'm wrong, just never heard that before.
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      10-12-2019, 02:04 PM   #148
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My interpretation is that Fabspeed's lifetime warranty is only for manufacturing defects. If you/they can prove a manufacturing defect caused the cat to fail, then you should be okay. But that seems impossible to do, because you can't verify the inside of a cat is good upon arrival of the dp. Unless you take it apart and test/inspect it yourself or something before installing. Which would void the warranty anyway.

From what I read here, there is no lifetime warranty on the cat other than if the problem is caused by a manufacturing defect. Though I do remember them saying there is a 2yr/10,000mi warranty on the cat... they must've changed it.

Also, what I'm reading now, is that they won't warranty a previous generation cat. So if Fabspeed decides to use a different cat in their current product line in the future, your warranty is void on any dp you purchased before. In this case, it seems they will give you a discount on purchasing a new cat. Kinda crappy.

https://www.fabspeed.com/terms-conditions/
Thanks for the update. I was going off their former policy; that '2yr/10k' whatever they vaguely spewed when they're pressed. I didn't realize they revised it.

That's smart of them to put their customers in a classic Catch-22 situation if an issue arises. You have to open up the cat to verify the supposed covered defect but if you do dissect the product to diagnose it, the warranty is voided Nice one

I believe if you choose to put a catted downpipe on your vehicle, regardless of the manufacture, you have to anticipate that it will eventually burn out. That's just how the game goes and I have no problem with them on that front.

I understand and respect that they have a business to run but I just wished they would be upfront about the inherent flaws in the warranty of their product and not try to make it so intentionally convoluted.
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      10-12-2019, 02:24 PM   #149
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I don't think bm3 auto-clears any codes. Correct me if I'm wrong, just never heard that before.
I don't need auto-clear, I just need the ability to turn it off if I so desire.
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      10-14-2019, 03:15 PM   #150
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Originally Posted by VisualEcho View Post
I'm not trying to throw the guy under the bus, I think it's obvious that they offer the highest quality down-pipe available with the least amount of CEL instances, I just don't see a need for it when I'm eventually going to get BM3. So for me it's an easy choice.
The highest quality catted DP is the HJS Euro 6 300 cell downpipe built by HJS and can be purchased from Fabspeed. It's ~$150 more than the FS catted DP and looks nearly OEM. FS pushes their DP because they obviously make more money on it.

I have had the HJS Euro 6 300 cell downpipe since the beginning of the year (~10K miles). No CELs.
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      10-16-2019, 01:37 AM   #151
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Anyone used the new wagner 300cpi cat? Tempting given that it's half the price of the hjs 300 variants.
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      10-16-2019, 10:26 AM   #152
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Quote:
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I don't think bm3 auto-clears any codes. Correct me if I'm wrong, just never heard that before.
It doesn't clear them, it just prevents them from getting generated in the first place by not doing the pre-cat and post-cat O2 sensor value comparison (called cat converter efficiency)
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      10-16-2019, 10:31 AM   #153
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Anyone used the new wagner 300cpi cat? Tempting given that it's half the price of the hjs 300 variants.
I can't find it anywhere, are you sure it's for N55?
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      10-16-2019, 10:50 AM   #154
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It doesn't clear them, it just prevents them from getting generated in the first place by not doing the pre-cat and post-cat O2 sensor value comparison (called cat converter efficiency)
Oh hmm. So my Fabspeed DP could be throwing a code and I wouldn't know it.
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