[CSBM5]

Originally Posted by Carrera2RS

Where do they pubish the force vs slip angle info, this takes me back to my automotive engineering degree days !

I've not seen this specific comparison published anywhere. I was creating the graph in my mind from driving/experiencing the two tire designs on three different platforms (E39 M5, E90 M3 and M2C).

[///MPhatic]

Originally Posted by CSBM5

In other words, the PS4S feels "less responsive" to steering inputs compared to the PSS even though if you fully exploit the tire on track, it's faster than a PSS.

I haven't read this at all. The PSS should be slightly faster than the PS4S on track from what I've read. But certainly the feel of the two tires would be quite different.

I actually don't even understand talking about the PSS/PS4S and track days. If you can afford an M2/3/4 it stands to reason that you can afford a proper set of drive-to-and-from track tires for your track day.

[CSBM5]

Originally Posted by ///MPhatic

I haven't read this at all. The PSS should be slightly faster than the PS4S on track from what I've read. But certainly the feel of the two tires would be quite different.

I actually don't even understand talking about the PSS/PS4S and track days. If you can afford an M2/3/4 it stands to reason that you can afford a proper set of drive-to-and-from track tires for your track day.

I'm just relaying information from tire tests performed by TireRack and Tyre Review in addition to Michelin's own published comparisons. The PS4S will lap faster than a PSS on both a dry and wet track.

I agree with you completely on track use. I can't even recall the last time I drove a street type tire on a track (unless you're talking about autocrossing and TW200 tires like RE-71Rs). I bought the first R-compound tire introduced back in 1985 (Goodyear Gatorback S with its molded 4/32" tread and all) and never looked back.

[ZM2]

Having run both tires on track many times when either my track tires were burned up, or for heavy rain, or in extra cold weather, and even in light snow on track, the PS4S is slightly faster than the PSS in the dry, a decent bit quicker in the wet, and has higher grip levels in the cold.

The PS4S is also quieter, more comfortable, and lasts longer than the PSS (>20K road miles for me on each). The only thing the PSS has going for it is better turn in and responsiveness.

I'll switch to the Conti SportContact 7 or PS5S for my daily driving and bad weather track tire, whenever either of those make it to the US.

[///MPhatic]

Originally Posted by CSBM5

I'm just relaying information from tire tests performed by TireRack and Tyre Review in addition to Michelin's own published comparisons. The PS4S will lap faster than a PSS on both a dry and wet track.

I agree with you completely on track use. I can't even recall the last time I drove a street type tire on a track (unless you're talking about autocrossing and TW200 tires like RE-71Rs). I bought the first R-compound tire introduced back in 1985 (Goodyear Gatorback S with its molded 4/32" tread and all) and never looked back.

Maybe it was the earlier reviews that I was remembering. Even the PS4S is an old tire now. I prefer their feel for sure, but the PS4S makes more sense for me as a daily. Unfortunately, I got the new V601 with my last set of wheels, so they'll be on for a while.

Anyone that knows enough to run a 71R is a friend of mine. Old tech or not, they are still my favorite street/track tire. I wish they would hurry up and give us the S in the US.

I too had Gatorbacks, we're going way back now. I did prefer the look of the P7 (iconic IMO), and the grip of the A008 (put everything to shame), but the Gator's were awesome for sure.

[CSBM5]

Originally Posted by ///MPhatic

Maybe it was the earlier reviews that I was remembering. Even the PS4S is an old tire now. I prefer their feel for sure, but the PS4S makes more sense for me as a daily. Unfortunately, I got the new V601 with my last set of wheels, so they'll be on for a while.

Anyone that knows enough to run a 71R is a friend of mine. Old tech or not, they are still my favorite street/track tire. I wish they would hurry up and give us the S in the US.

I too had Gatorbacks, we're going way back now. I did prefer the look of the P7 (iconic IMO), and the grip of the A008 (put everything to shame), but the Gator's were awesome for sure.

Yeah, it was the "S" compound version of the Gatorback that was a really sweet tire in 1985...no need to shave them either. Not too long after that Yokohama released the r-compound version of the A-008, the A-008R, and I switched to those. I daily drove on those tires for years too.

Speaking of the RE-71R, I still have a set mounted on a 2nd set of wheels for the M2C but haven't had a chance to use them for over a year now. Fun tires for sure, and what a difference in steering response vs PS4S.

EDIT: Found it! A pic of my Bavaria with the A-008Rs mounted!

[///MPhatic]

Originally Posted by CSBM5

Yeah, it was the "S" compound version of the Gatorback that was a really sweet tire in 1985...no need to shave them either. Not too long after that Yokohama released the r-compound version of the A-008, the A-008R, and I switched to those. I daily drove on those tires for years too.

Speaking of the RE-71R, I still have a set mounted on a 2nd set of wheels for the M2C but haven't had a chance to use them for over a year now. Fun tires for sure, and what a difference in steering response vs PS4S.

EDIT: Found it! A pic of my Bavaria with the A-008Rs mounted!

That's what I meant, A008R! I had them on my Conquest TSi.

Bavaria, wow.

I wish I could find a new leftover set of 71R's.

EDIT: You'll appreciate these...

[Wise1208]

So I just went from the * rated PSS to the non * PS4S today and after the first drive wanted to add what I noticed right away.

1. Ride is much better to the point where you will think the roads you normaly drive have been repaved. That much better.

2. From a dead stop grip is better. Not better then my old tires but better then when my PSS were young.

3. The negative. Turn in is noticeably softer that crisp nose dive and the road feel is muted.

[ZCPMV8]

I'm about to do the same and upgrade to the PS4Ss. There's the Mercedes spec and normal spec on tire rack. Is it obvious to avoid the MO1 version simply because we are driving BMWs? Anyone know the difference?

[ThreeStripes]

Originally Posted by Wise1208

3. The negative. Turn in is noticeably softer that crisp nose dive and the road feel is muted.

Perhaps it’s because of the aggressive camber I run up front in combination with the TCK suspension kit but I didn’t find turn in and road feel to be impacted much if at all.

For me the PS4S was a no compromise upgrade in stock sizes.

[Ratcher]

Originally Posted by Wise1208

So I just went from the * rated PSS to the non * PS4S today and after the first drive wanted to add what I noticed right away.

1. Ride is much better to the point where you will think the roads you normaly drive have been repaved. That much better.

2. From a dead stop grip is better. Not better then my old tires but better then when my PSS were young.

3. The negative. Turn in is noticeably softer that crisp nose dive and the road feel is muted.

This 100%. Also when warm, the grip is identical between both.

[ZCPMV8]

Originally Posted by Ratcher

This 100%. Also when warm, the grip is identical between both.

Is wet performance that much better? Enough to make one say that these are actually good in the rain for perf tires.. Or is it a bit overblown due to the fact that super sports are so terrible in wet conditions?