[O Haiii]

Hey guys,

Is it just me or is the 6mt flywheel way too heavy? The revs drop so slowly that it makes this wonderful car feel heavy and clunky in nature. Anyone tinker with a lighter flywheel in this drivetrain?

I understand that BMW did this to make it a daily driver friendly car, but this is an M2 and it should be okay to sacrifice a little bit of ease of driveability to achieve the sublime shifting feel....

[BlkSVT]

Originally Posted by O Haiii

Hey guys,

Is it just me or is the 6mt flywheel way too heavy? The revs drop so slowly that it makes this wonderful car feel heavy and clunky in nature. Anyone tinker with a lighter flywheel in this drivetrain?

I understand that BMW did this to make it a daily driver friendly car, but this is an M2 and it should be okay to sacrifice a little bit of ease of driveability to achieve the sublime shifting feel....

I think the question I am curious about is -- Has anyone driven a modern MT car that doesn't have this issue?

The throttle-hang, or rev-hang, is almost certainly emissions tuning related rather than flywheel-related. Transient tuning is really difficult to keep emissions under control so mfrs deal with it by preventing (best they can) rapid engine speed change. I hate it... but everything I've driven in the past ~10-12 years has done this

Do a search on throttle hang or rev hang and pretty much every manufacturer has people complaining about it

[O Haiii]

Originally Posted by BlkSVT

I think the question I am curious about is -- Has anyone driven a modern MT car that doesn't have this issue?

The throttle-hang, or rev-hang, is almost certainly emissions tuning related rather than flywheel-related. Transient tuning is really difficult to keep emissions under control so mfrs deal with it by preventing (best they can) rapid engine speed change. I hate it... but everything I've driven in the past ~10-12 years has done this

Do a search on throttle hang or rev hang and pretty much every manufacturer has people complaining about it

That's a perspective i did not think of. It really is annoying and i am actually considering a dct because of that. I recently testdrove a 2018 miata and that car did not have the rev hang. It was really the best driving car i've driven after i sold my s2000 in 2009. I've driven manual cars all my life but after I sold my s2000 ive been out of the motorsport scene. So the bar is set pretty high in terms of what i look for in driving feel. The 2019 miata with the updated engine and that amazing feel will end up in my garage sometime in the future next to my m2c, but i am debating on going dct now. I will be doing the 1st to 2nd shift a LOT in the course of the ownership of the car and if that feel is crappy, maybe i should just go dct. Do you have any suggestions for me? Did you get used to the 6mt in your m2?

[BlkSVT]

Originally Posted by O Haiii

That's a perspective i did not think of. It really is annoying and i am actually considering a dct because of that. I recently testdrove a 2018 miata and that car did not have the rev hang. It was really the best driving car i've driven after i sold my s2000 in 2009. I've driven manual cars all my life but after I sold my s2000 ive been out of the motorsport scene. So the bar is set pretty high in terms of what i look for in driving feel. The 2019 miata with the updated engine and that amazing feel will end up in my garage sometime in the future next to my m2c, but i am debating on going dct now. I will be doing the 1st to 2nd shift a LOT in the course of the ownership of the car and if that feel is crappy, maybe i should just go dct. Do you have any suggestions for me? Did you get used to the 6mt in your m2?

Mine is still on order Looks like i won't find out how bad it is until mid/late December

Strange that the Miata didn't do it though. Guy I work with has a 2016 and, other than not enough power, that's the only thing he's complained about with the car

I'm new to BMW with the M2C so maybe someone else has more specific info there, but I would think a tune could improve it? There has been some luck in reducing it on other makes w/a tune

Not that it will ever be lightning fast... dual-mass and multi-disc clutches are heavy SOBs, but it shouldn't be anywhere near as bad if the emissions-reducing aspect can be dumped w/a tune. I do know that on my SVT Focus you could trick it by doing a quick double-clutch, but it was a pain in the ass and probably no quicker than just slow-shifting while the revs come down

Last thing: I've heard that reducing oil consumption is another reason for it. Slamming the throttle shut at high revs causes increased blow-by, and some amount of increased oil usage in addition to the emissions spike

[CSBM5]

It doesn't feel like flywheel weight at all but tuning as described. It's clearly programmed in probably for both emissions and keeping the turbos spinning perhaps. It's annoying for sure, but we've gotten used to it now after 2200 miles/7 weeks with the car.

What I'm less than happy with is the heavy torque reduction/throttle control on WOT acceleration, rapid upshifts. I get it that they're trying to protect both the drivetrain and the typical incompetent driver, but for those of us with decades of powerful RWD track experience it would be nice to experience the "real car". (note talking about DSC off, WOT acceleration, each upshift...done as a typical quick upshift with proper throttle and clutch pedal action...results in lag/torque modulation in the upshifted gear for a spilt-second).

[carlsontheflyer]

It probably has something to do with the automatic rev matching feature these cars have. The computer tries to synchronize the revs not only on downshifs, but also on upshifts, so it may be electronically induced.

[Poochie]

The rev-hang has more to do with the drive-by-wire and the ECU mapping, than the flywheel.

Even if there were a lighter flywheel option, the computer would go into a tizzy if they are both out of sync..

An aftermarket tune might help alleviate this issue..

The stock system does help with smoother shifting. As far as I recall, a manual car with a light-weight flywheel can be a bitch to drive in everyday traffic..

https://www.carthrottle.com/post/rev...heads-hate-it/

[pz619]

So I will say this. If coming from a S2K I would lower your expectations around the M2C manual. The shifts will not be nearly as clean. Frankly, the s2000 will ruin every other manual because, for me, they all feel inferior. With that said, it's probably better than 95% of what is out there currently. As for the delay I definitely feel that emissions related as others have pointed out, but honestly it's not that bad to me. I still believe that the 6MT is better for driver engagement (my opinion), but you'll need to make that decision on your own.

[BlkSVT]

Originally Posted by Poochie

As far as I recall, a manual car with a light-weight flywheel can be a bitch to drive in everyday traffic..

https://www.carthrottle.com/post/rev...heads-hate-it/

Oh yeah, IMO a really light-weight flywheel is much worse on a daily driver than dealing with the throttle hang on modern cars...it does sound way cool with crazy-rapid revs on throttle blip, but still

Nice find on the link. There you go. Sounds like a tune issue to be solved

[CSBM5]

Originally Posted by pz619

With that said, it's probably better than 95% of what is out there currently. As for the delay I definitely feel that emissions related as others have pointed out, but honestly it's not that bad to me. I still believe that the 6MT is better for driver engagement (my opinion), but you'll need to make that decision on your own.

Absolutely. My wife is the primary driver for the M2C, and she wouldn't have anything but a 6MT, and she has no big issue with any of this stuff. I've gotten used to it but driving the E90 M3 and the M2C back-to-back is a big change in this respect.

[heli_ben]

People need to get over 6MT... it's dinosaur compared to 7DCT.

They aren't more engaging or authentic, just worse.

The 7DCT allows you focus on different parts of the driving experience.. oh and be faster!

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by heli_ben

People need to get over 6MT... it's dinosaur compared to 7DCT.

They aren't more engaging or authentic, just worse.

The 7DCT allows you focus on different parts of the driving experience.. oh and be faster!

Why would anyone get a M car in an automatic when the stick is still available? :

I am assuming you're not familiar with driving a manual; when you're accustom to it, shifting becomes second nature..

Saying DCT is more engaging is an oxymoron; it automatically controls the shifting..

I don't want to start another auto vs manual thread. Just be happy with whatever gearbox you choose and quit trying to justify your purchase..

[DETRoadster]

Originally Posted by heli_ben

People need to get over 6MT... it's dinosaur compared to 7DCT.

They aren't more engaging or authentic, just worse.

The 7DCT allows you focus on different parts of the driving experience... oh and be faster!

Like your Starbucks latte and playing with iDrive...

To each their own. I find an MT allows me to focus on the part of driving I enjoy focusing on.

[heli_ben]

Originally Posted by DETRoadster

Like your Starbucks latte and playing with iDrive...

To each their own. I find an MT allows me to focus on the part of driving I enjoy focusing on.

I've never had a coffee... Red Bull ftw!

I imagine all the racers miss there MT... oh hold on, they don't! :-)

But I agree, each to their own. I was really anti DCT before I drove a Porsche for 4 years with PDK and realised it was superior. I do miss heal and toe'ing though...

Cheers, Ben

[Proctor750]

Originally Posted by CSBM5

What I'm less than happy with is the heavy torque reduction/throttle control on WOT acceleration, rapid upshifts.

Have you taken out the little delay valve?

Originally Posted by heli_ben

People need to get over 6MT... it's dinosaur compared to 7DCT.

They aren't more engaging or authentic, just worse.

The 7DCT allows you focus on different parts of the driving experience.. oh and be faster!

Driving autos/DCT confuses my feet - I can't break the heel toe habit.

Have you ever shifted a gated H box? It's the closest thing you can get to a handgasm.

As I always say I prefer to drive my car - not aim it. Might as well make it autonomous and give it a good smack on the tail light to send her down the track.

[TTBear]

Originally Posted by DETRoadster

Like your Starbucks latte and playing with iDrive...

To each their own. I find an MT allows me to focus on the part of driving I enjoy focusing on.

EXACTLY!

[BlkSVT]

Originally Posted by Proctor750

Might as well make it autonomous and give it a good smack on the tail light to send her down the track.

I love it!

[Poochie]

Check that manual box while you still can kids, word on the street is that the next standard 2 series (G) will be auto only..

BMW plans to reserve the manual option exclusively for some M cars only.. Kind of what they did with the LSD option in their standard models..

It will be a sad day on Sesame Streets when BMW finally shutters all manual options completely..

The good news is that Aston Martin's CEO vows to be the last manufacture on earth to offer a manual option..

Here's to hoping that he doesn't whip out his dick in front of some interns and get #MeTooED before then..


https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/20...on-martin-ceo/

[akkando]

Originally Posted by Poochie

Check that manual box while you still can kids, word on the street is that the next standard 2 series (G) will be auto only..

BMW plans to reserve the manual option exclusively for some M cars only.. Kind of what they did with the LSD option in their standard models..

It will be a sad day on Sesame Streets when BMW finally shutters all manual options completely..

The good news is that Aston Martin's CEO vows to be the last manufacture on earth to offer a manual option..

Here's to hoping that he doesn't whip out his dick in front of some interns and get #MeTooED before then..


https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/20...on-martin-ceo/

The G series M2 or M3 will be the one to get manual I think. Likely the last chance, and no DCT on offer anyway.

G series M3 might be the last high performance MT sedan you can purchase period.

[Gearhead999s]

One of my E30 race cars had a really light flywheel with a 3 puck lightweight clutch and it was eye opening how much it changed the behaviour of the car compared to the stock legal setup.The transmission shifted a lot quicker and blips needed for rev matching were so easy.For a track car it was an awesome setup but was a real pain at low speeds or to launch.

[Mr Pete]

I had a F82 M4 manual. Shifts felt rubbery, and throws a bit long. Clutch travel felt like my leg was traveling a mile (clutch stop improved this).

Every car is different. I believe OP mentioned S2000. Clutch feel on the F8x’s are not the greatest, especially after having driven a S2000 CR and a 911.

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by akkando

The G series M2 will be the one to get manual I think. Likely the last chance, and no DCT on offer anyway.

Apparently, it will be the M2, and M3/4 RWD version, with a manual offering only..

The AWD M4 will be auto 8 only..

Folks are barking about it on the F80 forum..


All standard vehicles will still have some with RWD but only in auto..