[doug_999]

Originally Posted by zenmaster

Yes, this is clearly a case of false advertising and they should be liable for it.

And what damages would you seek?

Seriously, what the hell is wrong with this country.

[ORIGIN M.]

Who cares about window frames. Ha!

Originally Posted by nd2002

Or if they offered window frames.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by zenmaster

Case closed on this question, it was always the standard N55 open deck block (as suspected)

-------------
Thank you for reaching out to us.
Some of the original information contained in the press release was incorrect and since then has been updated. I can confirm that the M2 engine has been and continues to be open-deck.
Best regards,
BMW Group
[...]
-------------

zenmaster, I appreciate your fairness of reverting back to everyone with the 'open deck' confirmation by BMW.

Over the past couple of months we regularly crossed swords regarding the M2 and X4 M40i engine deck type discussion. But we always did it in a respectful and civilized way: arguments pro 'closed deck' (you) versus arguments pro 'open deck' (me). Many forum fellows participated and the debate sometimes spun out of control (one guy even got a temporary ban from the forum because of repeated name calling).

Case closed without winner or loser. No prizes to win. We all tried to resolve the intriguing puzzle without opening an M2 of X4 M40i engine. And, alike driving the M2, it's the excitement of the journey through the twisties that mainly provides the fun, more than the arrival at destination.

Undoubtedly we all learned a couple of new things about car engines. That's also one of the many facets that makes this forum a great place for petrol heads.

This long post of yours responding to my long post of last November, is a good testimony of how - despite the heated debate with believers on both sides - we both consistently kept our cool and reasoned with logical, sound arguments:
http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...5#post20873875

Thanks for the exciting ride through the twisties. I enjoyed it.

[DivideBYZero]

Lol @ this entire thread.

[Nine Lives]

Originally Posted by Artemis

zenmaster, I appreciate your fairness of reverting back to everyone with the 'open deck' confirmation by BMW.

Over the past couple of months we regularly crossed swords regarding the M2 and X4 M40i engine deck type discussion. But we always did it in a respectful and civilized way: arguments pro 'closed deck' (you) versus arguments pro 'open deck' (me). Many forum fellows participated and the debate sometimes spun out of control (one guy even got a temporary ban from the forum because of repeated name calling).

Case closed without winner or loser. No prizes to win. We all tried to resolve the intriguing puzzle without opening an M2 of X4 M40i engine. And, alike driving the M2, it's the excitement of the journey through the twisties that mainly provides the fun, more than the arrival at destination.

Undoubtedly we all learned a couple of new things about car engines. That's also one of the many facets that makes this forum a great place for petrol heads.

This long post of yours responding to my long post of last November, is a good testimony of how - despite the heated debate with believers on both sides - we both consistently kept our cool and reasoned with logical, sound arguments:
http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...5#post20873875

Thanks for the exciting ride through the twisties. I enjoyed it.

Seconded,

The journey is certainly better than the destination and the open/closed deck debate has been one of those rides.

After months of sleuthing it seems finally the cat is out the bag

[SeanWRT]

First the website put premature conclusion on front page and someone later posted a confirmation letter from within BMW. I call this conspiracy.

[Verdi]

Is this debate a joke or for real?

Sometimes I feel this forum is too negative and too harsh on the M2. It ruins my mood quite frankly. I can't stand all the negativity.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by Verdi

Is this debate a joke or for real?
Sometimes I feel this forum is too negative and too harsh on the M2. It ruins my mood quite frankly. I can't stand all the negativity.

No need to be sad, really.

Are the 1M or the M2, say, 'lesser' or 'inferior' because their engines are of the 'open deck' species ? No ! Alike human relationships, accept the M2 the way it is and look at how it performs, how it lives up to your expectations. That's what matters. The M2 got all the accolades and rave reviews for all the right reasons. It's without doubt a great car providing tons of "Freude am Fahren".

I cannot believe that its engine deck type influenced and influences a decision of ordering an M2. Furthermore, it doesn't adversely impact performance - its engine is perfectly fit for purpose.

I won't look in a different way at a person who comes out of the closet. In my book, a great person and/or great professional, remains a great person and/or professional. Likewise, I won't look at my M2 in a different way, now that has been confirmed that it features an 'open deck' engine design: continue to love it the way it is.

[Nine Lives]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Likewise, I won't look at my M2 in a different way, now that has been confirmed that it features an 'open deck' engine design: continue to love it the way it is.

I won't deny that it took the shine off for me.After pouring over a glossy brochure for months and then realizing that the engine wasn't as special as they were making out stuck in my craw a little.

A similar theme with MPSS now replaced with Contis after it was lauded that the Michelin's were tailor made for the M2 also.

But there is one positive and that is the M2 is a great car.

It's just a shame their right hand doesn't know what their left hand is doing

[Glounk]

A little bit disappointed that this ended by the M2 having a "open deck engine" 🙁 love the car anyway and will continue to enjoy it for what it is, a tool to make me smile ( i'm talking about the car ok hhhh )
But i will lie if i tell you that i'm not very very very disappointed that M guys haven't done any serious work on the engine

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by zenmaster

I think people realized that a different casting would not be economical for BMW, even though there probably would be close to 10,000 units worldwide. However, 15 months of prominent false advertising you'd think someone within BMW would have noticed? This was also in their internal engineering training manuals as well so it isn't a simple matter of marketing misunderstanding.

Further, when our doubts were expressed to BMW, we got official confirmation from them that the deck was closed. So the question was understandably kept alive - unimportant as the feature may be to most.

BMW has been shown to lie repeatedly with their latest M cars.

We were also told an F8X weighs the same as the E46M

[zenmaster]

Originally Posted by Artemis

zenmaster, I appreciate your fairness of reverting back to everyone with the 'open deck' confirmation by BMW.

Started out neutral on the subject due to plausibility of error. Did I want it to be correct? Of course, but I also wanted a straight answer to what seemed to be a simple question. So I wasn't "pro closed deck" - lol! Frustratingly, confirmation was not immediately forthcoming, as engine features beyond number of cylinders are too esoteric for most of BMW customer support to handle and they in turn had no resources available "we don't have that information" (but you're prominently touting the feature?). Got opinions of many people - 3 Genius on phone, 1 in email, 2 at dealer, customer relations, service advisor, service mgr, regional tech and prob highest paygrade, a Spokesperson for Product & Technology at HQ. (The regional tech didn't know for sure, but just assumed it was the standard open deck design.) I eventually became swayed by the spokesperson who had not only confirmed closed deck, but was completely convinced they had done so from an authoritative standpoint. And most of that inquiry was a full year after product launch - plenty of time to catch large errors?

[zenmaster]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

BMW has been shown to lie repeatedly with their latest M cars.

We were also told an F8X weighs the same as the E46M

I'm not looking at this particular decpetion as intentional (a lie). Rather considering how egregious the error was, it still was actively supported internally while being continually neglected for so long. Probably unprecedented.

[Paul-Bracq-BMW]

Originally Posted by PrematureApex

And the regular N55 block is good for much more than that...so no worries at all. You could be shooting for 500 or 600 bhp and not have worries. Which is why it was so dumb for some people to hang on the closed deck thing as this big improvement. The regular block is absolutely fine for the application.

There is a reason why ALL performance engines and racing engines have a closed deck designs...

[chris719]

Originally Posted by zenmaster

I'm not looking at this particular decpetion as intentional (a lie). Rather considering how egregious the error was, it still was actively supported internally while being continually neglected for so long. Probably unprecedented.

In my experience, almost everyone at BMW NA is clueless from a purely technical standpoint. I am not saying this to just bash them, I know people who work there. They have no real engineering here and they can only state what their docs from Munich tell them. This is why I was dismissive of the conclusion you got from your earlier communications with them.

[zenmaster]

Originally Posted by chris719

In my experience, almost everyone at BMW NA is clueless from a purely technical standpoint. I am not saying this to just bash them, I know people who work there. They have no real engineering here and they can only state what their docs from Munich tell them. This is why I was dismissive of the conclusion you got from your earlier communications with them.

lol! I didn't "conclude" anything until I verified that the info came from an authoritative source. I.e. not sales/marketing or someone referring to those materials for an answer. And yes, I always asked how they knew except for the guy at HQ because it would be insulting after such a reply. The one Genius who verified closed deck did so from the latest technical training manual which wasn't the leaked/stolen one in the sticky.
Btw, I too noticed the changes in press releases long before they were pointed out in this forum, but didn't see how that in itself would help get an answer.

[Verdi]

Originally Posted by Artemis

No need to be sad, really.

Are the 1M or the M2, say, 'lesser' or 'inferior' because their engines are of the 'open deck' species ? No ! Alike human relationships, accept the M2 the way it is and look at how it performs, how it lives up to your expectations. That's what matters. The M2 got all the accolades and rave reviews for all the right reasons. It's without doubt a great car providing tons of "Freude am Fahren".

I cannot believe that its engine deck type influenced and influences a decision of ordering an M2. Furthermore, it doesn't adversely impact performance - its engine is perfectly fit for purpose.

I won't look in a different way at a person who comes out of the closet. In my book, a great person and/or great professional, remains a great person and/or professional. Likewise, I won't look at my M2 in a different way, now that has been confirmed that it features an 'open deck' engine design: continue to love it the way it is.

I'm not sad about the car. Quite the contrary. It's great! I was contemplating the M140i because it would be more practical and with xDrive it would also be very usable all year. But in the end I opted for a manual M2 just because I love driving it.

I just find it sad that so many people are evaluating the M2 on stats and numbers rather than feelings. It's supposedly lacking horsepowers, it's too heavy, it doesn't have M mirrors, no carbon roof, no special M seats, poor interior, no HUD bla bla bla.

The weight thing bugs me the most. It's about as heavy as the E46 M3 and the 1M and lighter than E92 M3 and F82 M4. The A45 AMG is only like 15 kg lighter or something. But people go on and on about the M2 being a "porker" and needs to lose weight? Why? Because of Porsches 4 pot 2 seater 718... Of course that's going to be lighter. It's apples and oranges. Actually for a long time I thought the M2 maybe was unusally heavy. Imagine my surprise when it actually wasn't.

This closed vs open deck thing is just a non issue for me. Maybe I'll reconsider if we see a lot of engine failures in the coming years. I don't think we will though. The N55 has been with us for a long time now and people have thrown a lot of power at it without problems so. What's the big deal? Vanity? Being able to say "My car has an engine with closed deck design. You know, like real race cars."?

[CaryTheLabelGuy]

I hate to say it, but I'm going to anyway: I told you so!

Now, who's buying me lunch?

[FSociety]

Originally Posted by SeanWRT

Let's donate to have that evil opened up. So everybody file a law suit agaist the lying company asking a S55 replacement for compensation.

Originally Posted by Joaozao

So where do I sign up for my class action law suit compensation. I bought a car expecting close deck and it is not.

Not that it really matters, but this is clear false advertising.

Originally Posted by zenmaster

I think people realized that a different casting would not be economical for BMW, even though there probably would be close to 10,000 units worldwide. However, 15 months of prominent false advertising you'd think someone within BMW would have noticed? This was also in their internal engineering training manuals as well so it isn't a simple matter of marketing misunderstanding.

Further, when our doubts were expressed to BMW, we got official confirmation from them that the deck was closed. So the question was understandably kept alive - unimportant as the feature may be to most.

Originally Posted by zenmaster

Yes, this is clearly a case of false advertising and they should be liable for it.

Would really like to join the lawsuit !

[chris719]

Originally Posted by zenmaster

lol! I didn't "conclude" anything until I verified that the info came from an authoritative source. I.e. not sales/marketing or someone referring to those materials for an answer. And yes, I always asked how they knew except for the guy at HQ because it would be insulting after such a reply. The one Genius who verified closed deck did so from the latest technical training manual which wasn't the leaked/stolen one in the sticky.
Btw, I too noticed the changes in press releases long before they were pointed out in this forum, but didn't see how that in itself would help get an answer.

You should just quit now to save some face here. After you behaved like a troll insisting the deck was closed for months, everyone is letting you off lightly.

[zenmaster]

Originally Posted by chris719

You should just quit now to save some face here. After you behaved like a troll insisting the deck was closed for months, everyone is letting you off lightly.

How did you contribute to this topic? Oh that's right. No effort at all.

[Tag]

This thread would be so easy to troll, too bad everyone here isn't an Audi owner.