[Bluenose-2er]

Originally Posted by Artemis

No need to be sad, really.

Are the 1M or the M2, say, 'lesser' or 'inferior' because their engines are of the 'open deck' species ? No ! Alike human relationships, accept the M2 the way it is and look at how it performs, how it lives up to your expectations. That's what matters. The M2 got all the accolades and rave reviews for all the right reasons. It's without doubt a great car providing tons of "Freude am Fahren".

I cannot believe that its engine deck type influenced and influences a decision of ordering an M2. Furthermore, it doesn't adversely impact performance - its engine is perfectly fit for purpose.

I won't look in a different way at a person who comes out of the closet. In my book, a great person and/or great professional, remains a great person and/or professional. Likewise, I won't look at my M2 in a different way, now that has been confirmed that it features an 'open deck' engine design: continue to love it the way it is. [/IMG]

Well said. This issue never moved the needle for me - but I participated for the fun of deducing a conclusion from a wide variety of clues of highly variably reliability and sources.

But I do agree with Verdi that the negativity of many threads here sometimes gets me down too. This is a forum for M2 fans and owners to share experiences and information and perhaps complain about legitimate issues. There are many people that seem to want to trash the M2 - either because they want to justify not having one yet (and perhaps never will), justify waiting for a 'specialer' version, just think their particular favourite car is better and want everyone to know it. I am all for discussion and debate, but it is much better when there is a give and take and not two opposed and intractable positions - if I want that I will read the CNN or FoxNews comments pages.

[doug_999]

These lawsuit comments.... are people serious? If so, I'm really curious what "damages" they feel they are owed and...

I'm ashamed to be an American if a suit like this actually gets any merit. Just sayin, wow, to think you are owed something that has absolutely no bearing on how the car works/performs/drives/etc.... I'm at a loss. Is that really what we have come to here?

Or maybe everyone is just joking?

[NOLAGUY]

Originally Posted by doug_999

These lawsuit comments.... are people serious? If so, I'm really curious what "damages" they feel they are owed and...

I'm ashamed to be an American if a suit like this actually gets any merit. Just sayin, wow, to think you are owed something that has absolutely no bearing on how the car works/performs/drives/etc.... I'm at a loss. Is that really what we have come to here?

Or maybe everyone is just joking?

I am seriously disappointed. The closed deck is honestly one reason why I bought this car. I've always modified my cars and this feature is a big deal. I spent the extra money on my last engine build to have my block sleeved and to close the deck. So it has always been something I look for.

I don't want BMW to pay for 'damages' . I want them to apologise and offer a buy back.

[doug_999]

Originally Posted by NOLAGUY

I am seriously disappointed. The closed deck is honestly one reason why I bought this car. I've always modified my cars and this feature is a big deal. I spent the extra money on my last engine build to have my block sleeved and to close the deck. So it has always been something I look for.

I don't want BMW to pay for 'damages' . I want them to apologise and offer a buy back.

I don't think the N55 is the motor you want to try and squeeze extra hp out of.

And your post sounds like the start of something you want to use against BMW.

End of the day, BMW does not market their cars as "the ultimate stock motor to tear apart".

Good luck with your buy back. That and the other lawsuits will simply raise the price of all BMWs.

[smoothM2]

Originally Posted by doug_999

I don't think the N55 is the motor you want to try and squeeze extra hp out of.

And your post sounds like the start of something you want to use against BMW.

End of the day, BMW does not market their cars as "the ultimate stock motor to tear apart".

Good luck with your buy back. That and the other lawsuits will simply raise the price of all BMWs.

At the end of the day if someone buys an M2 because of the falsely advertised closed deck he/she has a legitimate case. A buy back should be the minimum offered to all M2 owners. Just google false advertisement lawsuits and you will find many more less worthy cases that paid out hundreds of millions.

[bm2]

My purchase was based on the m2's specs!! :

[NOLAGUY]

Originally Posted by bm2

My purchase was based on the m2's specs!! :

2:50

[doug_999]

Originally Posted by smoothM2

At the end of the day if someone buys an M2 because of the falsely advertised closed deck he/she has a legitimate case. A buy back should be the minimum offered to all M2 owners. Just google false advertisement lawsuits and you will find many more less worthy cases that paid out hundreds of millions.

Yep, like I said, all it does is make the attorneys rich and the price of the cars to go up.

Still, the facts stand - the performance of the car, as advertised by BMW, is not changed based on the block. So I bet everyone will have a fun time proving the value of the car is diminished and/or the car is not what BMW says it is. Not that they won't try.

and it makes me laugh - because I remember my 550 owner's manual (or maybe the 325i) had something about 14 way seat adjustments, when in fact it was like 12. I wrote to BMW and they said "yea, we made a mistake, sorry".

But I didn't sue. My bad

[Paul-Bracq-BMW]

Originally Posted by doug_999

I don't think the N55 is the motor you want to try and squeeze extra hp out of.

And your post sounds like the start of something you want to use against BMW.

End of the day, BMW does not market their cars as "the ultimate stock motor to tear apart".

Good luck with your buy back. That and the other lawsuits will simply raise the price of all BMWs.

I don't think that prices will go up because of a law suit. An example is VW. Because car makers care about market share they won't be pricing the car outside of the target market.

Also this shows how wanting to maximise profit can go against engineering integrity. This is not the 1st time BMW has done it: they have used cheap parts in their V10's that simply don't stand the test of time. IMO, they should have used the new B58 engine in the M2. The M2 was launched in October 15 and I believe the B58 was produced at about the same time... The B58 engine has a close deck design and is therefore much sturdier and easier/safer to tune than the M55...

[chris719]

Originally Posted by Paul-Bracq-BMW

I don't think that prices will go up because of a law suit. An example is VW. Because car makers care about market share they won't be pricing the car outside of the target market.

Also this shows how wanting to maximise profit can go against engineering integrity. This is not the 1st time BMW has done it: they have used cheap parts in their V10's that simply don't stand the test of time. IMO, they should have used the new B58 engine in the M2. The M2 was launched in October 15 and I believe the B58 was produced at about the same time... The B58 engine has a close deck design and is therefore much sturdier and easier/safer to tune than the M55...

An engine is only as strong as its weakest component. I don't think you can definitively say the B58 is stronger unless you have seen the finite element analysis of both combined with real world reliability data. It's probably stronger, but lacks the track record of N55 which may be why the engineers were more comfortable with pushing N55.

[paradoxical3]

This is really a dumb discussion when a N55 has never popped due to making too much power. There are kits running 650whp without a sweat. Are you running 650whp in your m2? Than whether the deck is open or closed doesn't matter.

Or to look at it even more simply...if you have been debating for the last several months whether it was open or closed, than it shouldn't matter to you. Because if it did, you would be the type of person that would already have it torn down and built running a big turbo.

[smoothM2]

Suddenly my M2 isn't worth as much as it was 2 days ago. I was really hoping the motor was a closed deck so it would on par with the S55 in terms of reliability and tuning potential. Now that it's been confirmed to be open deck it has deflated it's value somewhat. It's like getting that chocolate bunny for Easter only to find out that it's hollow...

[chris719]

Originally Posted by smoothM2

Suddenly my M2 isn't worth as much as it was 2 days ago. I was really hoping the motor was a closed deck so it would on par with the S55 in terms of reliability and tuning potential. Now that it's been confirmed to be open deck it has deflated it's value somewhat. It's like getting that chocolate bunny for Easter only to find out that it's hollow...

It would never be on par with S55 in terms of tuning potential, even with a closed deck. On the other hand, it is probably a more reliable design than S55 given the number of dead S55s seen on the M3/M4 forums. BMW S engines do not have a sparkling history of reliability.

Do you plan to try to exceed 500 WHP? There are bigger problems with the stock N55 in terms of tuning potential than the cylinder head.

Pretty sure the resale value of your M2 hasn't changed. The N55 (T0) does not have a lot of performance left on the table, a closed deck is not changing that. If you're really that upset I will buy it at a deep discount .

[Nine Lives]

Originally Posted by smoothM2

Suddenly my M2 isn't worth as much as it was 2 days ago. I was really hoping the motor was a closed deck so it would on par with the S55 in terms of reliability and tuning potential. Now that it's been confirmed to be open deck it has deflated it's value somewhat. It's like getting that chocolate bunny for Easter only to find out that it's hollow...

LOL,

Or taking the girl of your dreams out on a date only to find when you get her back " for coffee " that she's got the full cock and bollocks going on downstairs

[akkando]

Originally Posted by smoothM2

Suddenly my M2 isn't worth as much as it was 2 days ago. I was really hoping the motor was a closed deck so it would on par with the S55 in terms of reliability and tuning potential. Now that it's been confirmed to be open deck it has deflated it's value somewhat. It's like getting that chocolate bunny for Easter only to find out that it's hollow...

Did the used market price go down? I have not noticed a drop over the last day... still no cheap m2s.... Are you seeing a reduction in price or demand?

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by smoothM2

Suddenly my M2 isn't worth as much as it was 2 days ago. I was really hoping the motor was a closed deck so it would on par with the S55 in terms of reliability and tuning potential. Now that it's been confirmed to be open deck it has deflated it's value somewhat. It's like getting that chocolate bunny for Easter only to find out that it's hollow...

IMHO zero depreciation, except if you wrapped it around a tree last night.

And your chocolate Easter bunny ain't hollow - you still got all the chocolate you expected. Actually, BMW even got you more chocolate than expected: Akrapovič tested the M2 (see here) and found out that it sports 284.3 kW or 386.5 hp (metric) or 381.2 hp (mech) (instead of the official 272 kW or 370 hp (metric) or 365 hp (mech)) and 558.8 Nm or 412.1 lb-ft (instead of the official 500 (465+35) Nm or 369 (343+26) lb-ft). So, are you also gonna argue that your M2 took a hit because it got more than the official power and torque levels which makes it in your likely view 'a bit too dangerous to handle' for you ? C'mon, man.

The BMW N55 engine successfully powered numerous BMW cars since 2009 (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_N55). It proved to be a very reliable engine and properly handles all the power levels set by BMW. The N55 3.0-litre straight-six with BMW TwinPower Turbo technology won the "2014 Engine Of The Year Award" in its class (see here and here). The M2 engine ended second in the "2016 Engine Of The Year Award" in its class, with Porsche taking the crown (see here).

Nobody's perfect. All this quarrelsome/contentious "lawsuit !", "damages !", "buyback !", yadda-yadda-yadda that starts surfacing now, is pretty saddening for many BMW aficionados over here (including myself). Get a grip: approach the 'open deck' design feature in a constructive way, rather than in a destructive way. Or, as a wise farmer saying goes: life is simpler when you plow around the stump.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by akkando

Did the used market price go down? I have not noticed a drop over the last day... still no cheap m2s.... Are you seeing a reduction in price or demand?

Take a look here: $100K M2 cars.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by bm2

My purchase was based on the m2's specs!! :
[VIDEO]

Originally Posted by NOLAGUY

2:50

See post #84 of this thread.

[NOLAGUY]

I absolutely understand and agree that the M2 is a great vehicle even if it's an open deck engine. But I purchased this vehicle with plans to modify and tune.

Are people here saying they wouldn't be upset if you bought a diamond and it ended up being a lab grown one? Or a Rolex with plastic internals but still kept perfect time?

[doug_999]

Originally Posted by Paul-Bracq-BMW

I don't think that prices will go up because of a law suit. An example is VW. Because car makers care about market share they won't be pricing the car outside of the target market.

Also this shows how wanting to maximise profit can go against engineering integrity. This is not the 1st time BMW has done it: they have used cheap parts in their V10's that simply don't stand the test of time. IMO, they should have used the new B58 engine in the M2. The M2 was launched in October 15 and I believe the B58 was produced at about the same time... The B58 engine has a close deck design and is therefore much sturdier and easier/safer to tune than the M55...

Lawsuits drive up the cost - period. It's not like the Seinfeld episode where Kramer keeps saying 'it is a write-off Jerry!"

Plenty of the cost of our cars is driven by frivolous suits that cost automakers (and of course us extra money).

The N55 actually has a history, and water jackets next to the cylinder wall are not a bad thing.

I really didn't see BMW saying "Buy the M2, it is ready to be modded".

[Paul-Bracq-BMW]

Originally Posted by doug_999

Lawsuits drive up the cost - period. It's not like the Seinfeld episode where Kramer keeps saying 'it is a write-off Jerry!"

Plenty of the cost of our cars is driven by frivolous suits that cost automakers (and of course us extra money).

The N55 actually has a history, and water jackets next to the cylinder wall are not a bad thing.

I really didn't see BMW saying "Buy the M2, it is ready to be modded".

M2 is supposed to be a real M car with a high performance "S" closed deck engine. Reality is otherwise....

[Nine Lives]

Whether the M2's engine is open or closed deck is a moot point in reality as the " tuned" N55 is going to obsolete in the not too distant future,however the more I think about this,it does make me wonder whether this was an exercise in aggrandisement to obtain maximum sales in the short term.