[vrooooom]

Yes Japanese or US. So the answer is yes, the Euro is a superior oil due to its stricter requirements?

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by PackPride85

I'm a 5k miles or once a year advocate for non track vehicles. If you are doing multiple track events I'd change more often.

I think that is far too frequent. I've seen OCI reports and they all show useable detergents, low fuel and particulate contamination and high flash point, and this is with cars that have a few track days on the oil.

I would suggest just doing a Blackstone test for ($50?) and seeing what works for you - or changing at 7-8K.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

I think that is far too frequent. I've seen OCI reports and they all show useable detergents, low fuel and particulate contamination and high flash point, and this is with cars that have a few track days on the oil.

I would suggest just doing a Blackstone test for ($50?) and seeing what works for you - or changing at 7-8K.

Have you seen TAN? TBN can be sufficient, but if TAN is high you have oxidation and TAN will be high on the track due to heat.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

I think that is far too frequent. I've seen OCI reports and they all show useable detergents, low fuel and particulate contamination and high flash point, and this is with cars that have a few track days on the oil.

I would suggest just doing a Blackstone test for ($50?) and seeing what works for you - or changing at 7-8K.

I think black stone is $25 or something like that it wasn't $50. But yes it is a good idea to do an oil analysis to see when you should change the oil becasue it varies car to car and driving style to driving style.


However another important detail is if viscosity dropped as well, especially if you use alcohol in your fuel.



Personally I think 7500 km is the upper limit to when you should change your oil which is even less than 5k miles. Because oil is cheap insurance for you engine, and even if there is enough additives to keep going for a bit more, the ppm has dropped alot and wear protection will not be as good as if your oil was fresh. So for $19 per 5L jug of oil at walmart, and $8 for a filter you're essentially looking at $38 for an oil change which is dirty cheap insurance to keep your motor running strong.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by edycol

Have you seen TAN? TBN can be sufficient, but if TAN is high you have oxidation and TAN will be high on the track due to heat.

I can't say I'm familiar with it personally - is it usually listed on blackstone's reports? I don't remember seeing it.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

I can't say I'm familiar with it personally - is it usually listed on blackstone's reports? I don't remember seeing it.

No. You have to order it. TAN is Total Acid Number. Oils are already acidic. Esters (Redline or Motul 300V) are especially acidic. If TAN number is close to TBN or exceeds TBN number , then you have oxidation=sludge.
Here is report from my E90 328 where you can see TAN.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by edycol

No. You have to order it. TAN is Total Acid Number. Oils are already acidic. Esters (Redline or Motul 300V) are especially acidic. If TAN number is close to TBN or exceeds TBN number , then you have oxidation=sludge.
Here is report from my E90 328 where you can see TAN.

Excellent explaination, hopefully this ends the case of people that keep saying high mileage oil changes are ok because tbn is ok.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by F87source

Excellent explanation, hopefully this ends the case of people that keep saying high mileage oil changes are ok because tbn is ok.

But literally his results show that it's the case. He has 4600mi on the oil* and the TAN is comfortably below his TBN. I'm not saying this is always the case, I'm just saying people can/should check.

Also - I miss my N52...

[inTgr8r]

Originally Posted by edycol

No. You have to order it. TAN is Total Acid Number. Oils are already acidic. Esters (Redline or Motul 300V) are especially acidic. If TAN number is close to TBN or exceeds TBN number , then you have oxidation=sludge.
Here is report from my E90 328 where you can see TAN.

Appreciate the info!
I've been sample testing for many years but am not familiar with either term.
Would you mind explaining TBN as well?

;edit;
Found it....

TBN is a measure of alkaline additives in the oil. Higher TBN oils neutralize a greater amount of acidic materials, which results in improved protection against corrosive reactions and longer oil life.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

But literally his results show that it's the case. He has 4600mi on the motor and the TAN is comfortably below his TBN. I'm not saying this is always the case, I'm just saying people can/should check.

Also - I miss my N52...

Sure, but this oil has not seen track. It has seen aggressive driving to ski resorts, and a lot of HWY miles.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

But literally his results show that it's the case. He has 4600mi on the oil* and the TAN is comfortably below his TBN. I'm not saying this is always the case, I'm just saying people can/should check.

Also - I miss my N52...

I'm more talking about the people that are saying BMWs oci is acceptable and lower oci are just a scam from oil companies.

For edy he's right on the cusp, but again oil is cheap a bearing job or engine rebuild isn't.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by F87source

I'm more talking about the people that are saying BMWs oci is acceptable and lower oci are just a scam from oil companies.

For edy he's right on the cusp, but again oil is cheap a bearing job or engine rebuild isn't.

Also, most people who drive serious track cars etc. run Redline, 300V bcs. it gives them warm feeling around heart .
But those oils are notorious oxidizers, especially Redline.
But you are right on the target. Oil is too cheap.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by edycol

Also, most people who drive serious track cars etc. run Redline, 300V bcs. it gives them warm feeling around heart .
But those oils are notorious oxidizers, especially Redline.
But you are right on the target. Oil is too cheap.

Lol this reminds me how there's still a whole bunch of bmw guys out there that thing expensive oil is good oil, hence why they buy liquimoly and talk smack about Walmart oil like Pennzoil, Castrol, mobil1 etc. That is always really funny to see them waste money, especially after you try to explain to them and they don't want to listen.

[AlpsRider]

Originally Posted by F87source

Lol this reminds me how there's still a whole bunch of bmw guys out there that thing expensive oil is good oil, hence why they buy liquimoly and talk smack about Walmart oil like Pennzoil, Castrol, mobil1 etc. That is always really funny to see them waste money, especially after you try to explain to them and they don't want to listen.

I am not an expert on oil, I go by reviews and ratings. PPE 5-40 seems to be darn good oil and is what I've been using. Then I discovered that Quaker State Euro 5-40 is the same oil for just over $3. Per quart at Walmart. Correct me if I'm wrong, isn't that the best deal around for a superior oil?

[F87source]

Originally Posted by AlpsRider

I am not an expert on oil, I go by reviews and ratings. PPE 5-40 seems to be darn good oil and is what I've been using. Then I discovered that Quaker State Euro 5-40 is the same oil for just over $3. Per quart at Walmart. Correct me if I'm wrong, isn't that the best deal around for a superior oil?

Already better than the majority of people that go by price and name.

Yeah that is probably the best deal for oil out there. I was talking to edy, and he said walmart does that to bring customers in the door. They are willing to lose money on things like oil so you come into their store and end up buying other things.


For me here in Canada walmart never had a really good oil selection in terms of weight, it was always Canadian tire. But now Walmart is really picking up their game and they have PPE here for less than Canadian tire which is insane. But the prices still aren't as good as in the states - $28 CAD for 5L, in the US iirc it is $19 USD for 5L.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by F87source

Already better than the majority of people that go by price and name.

Yeah that is probably the best deal for oil out there. I was talking to edy, and he said walmart does that to bring customers in the door. They are willing to lose money on things like oil so you come into their store and end up buying other things.


For me here in Canada walmart never had a really good oil selection in terms of weight, it was always Canadian tire. But now Walmart is really picking up their game and they have PPE here for less than Canadian tire which is insane. But the prices still aren't as good as in the states - $28 CAD for 5L, in the US iirc it is $19 USD for 5L.

Last week I went to pick up two jugs of Mobil1 0W40. They had it for $22 5qt.
By the time I got to Wal mart wife sent 15 text messages with stuff to get. So think of a jug that was $222.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by AlpsRider

I am not an expert on oil, I go by reviews and ratings. PPE 5-40 seems to be darn good oil and is what I've been using. Then I discovered that Quaker State Euro 5-40 is the same oil for just over $3. Per quart at Walmart. Correct me if I'm wrong, isn't that the best deal around for a superior oil?

PPE is top of the line when it comes to sophistication. It is rebadged Shell Helix.
Shell is relying on GTL (Gas to Liquid) base stocks and Group III. WHile making oils for BMW, they made specific oils not just repacking. Their TPT 5W30 LL)1 was a serious contender, probably the best 5W30 oils on the market, period. Thei 0W40 M was mix of GTL and majority PAO, and had some serious performance numbers. I am really sad BMW went back to Castrol, but business is business.
I am bit wary of very low Zinc in PPE 5W40 as they are complying with new API SP and N20/26 BMW chain test. Zinc while really good when it comes to engine protection and mitigating LSPI, does not get along with timing chains. But, I bet Shell knows something I don't

[F87source]

Originally Posted by edycol

PPE is top of the line when it comes to sophistication. It is rebadged Shell Helix.
Shell is relying on GTL (Gas to Liquid) base stocks and Group III. WHile making oils for BMW, they made specific oils not just repacking. Their TPT 5W30 LL)1 was a serious contender, probably the best 5W30 oils on the market, period. Thei 0W40 M was mix of GTL and majority PAO, and had some serious performance numbers. I am really sad BMW went back to Castrol, but business is business.
I am bit wary of very low Zinc in PPE 5W40 as they are complying with new API SP and N20/26 BMW chain test. Zinc while really good when it comes to engine protection and mitigating LSPI, does not get along with timing chains. But, I bet Shell knows something I don't

It's unfortunately zinc levels in the motul xcess gen 2 5w40 is dropping as well, it used to be in the 1000 ppm range but now it is in the 900 ppm range just like ppe.

So if you want serious zinc levels I think castrol 0w40 is the only way to get it. But who knows if that will soon drop as timing chain tests get more stringent.

[vrooooom]

Shell owns both Pennzoil and Quaker State.... is it really the same contents? Euro 5w40.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by vrooooom

Shell owns both Pennzoil and Quaker State.... is it really the same contents? Euro 5w40.

That's what we are believing based on the spec sheets - which shell is known to be pretty bad at keep accurate.

But UOA and VOA would seem to point that they are indeed the same oil and thus rebranded helix.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by vrooooom

Shell owns both Pennzoil and Quaker State.... is it really the same contents? Euro 5w40.

Shell has several Helix lines. I think PPE is Shell Helix Ultra pureplus.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by F87source

It's unfortunately zinc levels in the motul xcess gen 2 5w40 is dropping as well, it used to be in the 1000 ppm range but now it is in the 900 ppm range just like ppe.

So if you want serious zinc levels I think castrol 0w40 is the only way to get it. But who knows if that will soon drop as timing chain tests get more stringent.

Castrol 0W40 and 0W30, Mobil1 0W40 and 5W40, Motul Sport, Redline, Valvoline 5W40 European Vehicle.