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      09-19-2019, 02:23 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
The data sheet you posted says that the M2 CS test car featured optional M-CCB: "Keramik (optional)". Look also at the indicated 15K price delta (base price versus test car price) which could be explained by M-CCB for a significant part.

According to the same data sheet:
  • the tested M2 Competition (M-DCT) weighed 1631 kg (full tank of fuel included), apparently had no M Driver's Package (because data sheet notes V-max of 250 km/u (stock: electronically limited V-max) - Parabolika speed 232 km/h), featured steel brakes, was sitting on Pilot Super Sport tires (likely on 19" 788M wheels) and was driving in 1C/34F air temp + 1C/34F track temp and 1020 mbar air pressure;
  • the tested M2 CS (M-DCT) weighed 1588 kg (full tank of fuel included), apparently had M Driver's Package (because data sheet notes V-max of 280 km/h (delimited V-max) - Parabolika speed 248 km/h), featured M-CCB (carbon ceramic brakes - bigger rotors), was sitting on Cup 2 tires (likely on lightweight 19" 763M wheels) and was driving in 32C/90F air temp + 53C/127F track temp and 1015 mbar air pressure.
Hm, judging merely by those figures, it looks like the M2 Competition - considering its setup and near freezing point test circumstances - wasn't particularly blown out of the water/ice by the better equipped and more powerful M2 CS pushed around the track in warm weather on hot asphalt.
100% My thoughts exactly.

Granted, the PSS tires are better suited for a cold track as they warm up faster. The Cup2 tires would not perform at all at that temperature. However, the Cup2's on a warm track are almost magical.

I think we'd all like to see M2C vs M2CS on the same tires and steelies. The M2CS will certainly be faster due to slightly lower weight and more power but how much faster?

Of course, none of this matters. Even as a track instructor, I don't go to the race track to race, I go to have fun. The only thing that matters is how much fun the car is to drive.
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      09-19-2019, 02:26 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowbrick View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by PilotxERAU View Post
I don't get it. You can recreate this car safely and reliably for 20k less ��
More than 20k less. But finally, rational thinking is being posted.
Karmic Man, you can get the hood now and you'll be set at a great discount too. As for performance numbers, cmon this isnt worth 20k over current M2 comp pricing. This is BMW marketing at its finest and props to them for cashing in. At this price you are in Porsche territory and the Cayman GT4 is a killer compared to this car IMHO opinion. I hate saying that as Im a loyalist. Ive owned an M car since the e46, e90, m2, and current m2 comp but cmon this is just getting absurd.
the M4 CS seats are $18k alone if you buy them separately so I don't think the markup is too crazy despite being really high for the CS models. They'll either sell and hold a premium or drop like a rock as with all BMW special models
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      09-19-2019, 02:26 PM   #47
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CS sure is a nice upgrade. Hope BMW will keep it that way..... So to keep the M2 Competition cheaper at a more "reasonable/affordable" price. I don't have the skill for experiencing a couple seconds faster lap time anyway
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      09-19-2019, 02:38 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3GymNut View Post
What? The price of the new M2CS is going to be in the upper $70k range.
Where in gods name are you getting $120-$150k?
Maybe not 120k but don't forget the stiff dealer markup this is going to fetch.
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      09-19-2019, 02:41 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Mnoob2 View Post
Maybe not 120k but don't forget the stiff dealer markup this is going to fetch.
Where am I getting that number. Simple. Look at the markup on M3/M4 CS. Look at the parts on the M2 CS. Look at the Belgium price listed. When you are done with all that you are around 100k which some dealers will sell at. Then you have people on a list already that will try to cash in along with other dealers marking up their units. So realistically best case 100k worst case 120k. Where you thinking 70k? The BMW CF roof and hood will push it past 70k alone.

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      09-19-2019, 02:48 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boss330 View Post
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Originally Posted by nlpamg View Post
I've been waiting for more details about the CS and man, this is disappointing.
I know the conditions were different and that Cup 2s need to be warmed up, but to only be less than two seconds quicker with Cup 2's vs. Super Sports? Come on now.
Less than 2 seconds?
It's 2.1 sec faster and the article states that even without considering the better conditions that the Competition model was tested under thats a significant difference!
2 seconds on a short track is a lot! Do 5 laps and the CS is over 10 seconds ahead. Visualize having to wait 10 seconds for the Competition to pass after the CS crosses the line... It's a loooong wait!
Or just get the stock m3 tune on the m2c and cup 2 tires and the times should pretty much be exactly the same.
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      09-19-2019, 02:53 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by AlpsRider View Post
Upgrade the M2C to 763M wheels and stickier tires, throw in a M4CS tune and maybe the CF hood for fun. Done. If you are headed to the track throw in some coilovers.
Saving an extra $30k+.

If the only hardware difference is Adaptive suspension it's really tough to justify spending big cheddar on the CS version.
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      09-19-2019, 03:02 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowbrick View Post
... Look at the markup on M3/M4 CS. ...
Nothing lasts forever I suppose, M4 CS is being discounted heavily into the 70s atm

https://forum.leasehackr.com/t/signe...0-lease/152662
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      09-19-2019, 03:14 PM   #53
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This thread confirms what can sometimes happen with a 2 year tease. Unless it's epic, it can feel a bit disappointing.

Maybe not because it actually is disappointing but because there are no longer any actual surprises.

I've no doubt the M2CS will be a fantastic car, rave reviews and be the ultimate M2, however reading these comments it seems many feel underwhelmed.

Sometimes just a 'boom' surprise car from nowhere would be great....but the what would we read here and in 2019 who can actually keep a secret.

Congrats to those who have one on order. I wonder if my local dealer has an order in, would like to see in the metal.
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      09-19-2019, 03:17 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miko M View Post
Upper 70K?
They posted already at 95K
To me it's not worth the extra dough!!!!
If that's the case BMW will have made the same mistake with the M3/4 CS cause I would consider this vehicle if it were in the low to mid $80k range.
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      09-19-2019, 03:24 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W/// View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miko M View Post
Upper 70K?
They posted already at 95K
To me it's not worth the extra dough!!!!
That wasn't even for the US. That was the price thrown around for Belgium.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miko M View Post
Upper 70K?
They posted already at 95K
To me it's not worth the extra dough!!!!
If that's the case BMW will have made the same mistake with the M3/4 CS cause I would consider this vehicle if it were in the low to mid $80k range.
I didn't say it was for US market
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      09-19-2019, 03:25 PM   #56
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To sport auto's credit, they publish the temperature data for very good reason. All of the lap time publications should do the same, but it makes for a more sensational/easier story publishing big time gaps rather than acknowledging the nuances involved with lap times, e.g., ambient temps, track temp, track conditions (rubbered in vs. not), recent precipitation, etc. All of which can work to create 2-3 second gaps between virtually equal cars.

So yeah, testing conditions alone disqualify a meaningful lap time comparison here. The difference between 90 degrees and 34 degrees is seconds per lap.

Granted, Ive never tracked in mid-30s. But in low 40s, provided the tires are warm, car is a monster. Confident that you could get coax PSS into operating window in the 30s. (Acceleration data implies the Comp was hooked up just fine.) On the other hand, 90 degrees ambient is way too hot for a true best lap time, no matter the tire.

All of that aside, I do think some are expecting too much gain from these special editions. The contemporary base M2/3/4 is an incredibly competent starting platform. Not like the E46 or E9X where streetable mods easily net 5-6 seconds a lap, or more. BMW chassis development was amazing with the latest gens.

The gap between Michelins top tier high performance street tires (PSS, PS4S) and the STAR SPEC Cup 2 is similarly narrowed (over one hot lap).

The value will be experiential more than just knock your socks off outright pace advantage. Bet the CS will be a substantially better car to drive and enjoy on track, including durability.
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      09-19-2019, 03:29 PM   #57
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All the folks saying that a 2.1 seconds difference around a ~2 min track is meaningless, that the M2cs had better conditions than the M2C and that CBB provide a significant advantage don't know much about tracking cars...
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      09-19-2019, 03:55 PM   #58
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Very excited for this model!
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      09-19-2019, 04:11 PM   #59
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Side-note: the German article also reveals that the M2 CS world premiere will take place in November at the L.A. Auto Show ("Seine Weltpremiere findet im November statt, auf der L.A. Auto Show").
L.A. Auto Show 2019 = Nov 22 - Dec 1, 2019 (see here).
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      09-19-2019, 04:15 PM   #60
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Quote:
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Side-note: the German article also reveals that the M2 CS world premiere will take place in November at the L.A. Auto Show ("Seine Weltpremiere findet im November statt, auf der L.A. Auto Show").
L.A. Auto Show 2019 = Nov 22 - Dec 1, 2019 (see here).
Where did I hear that date before?
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      09-19-2019, 04:28 PM   #61
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Where did I hear that date before?
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      09-19-2019, 04:54 PM   #62
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Quote:
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Different exhaust box I think, titanium
From the pictures, the M2cs tested has the standard exhaust and not the Titanium M-Performance one.
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      09-19-2019, 05:06 PM   #63
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2.1 seconds faster on a 1:55 track is significant. I mean, we've known what this car was going to be for many months now, what did you guys expect? This is the first and only M2 available with adaptive suspension, and its going to have the absolute best set up of any F generation M car, along with all the development and calibration knowledge that M GMBH has leRned over the past 7 years baked into it.

I retrofitted the full M3CS suspension onto my 2015, and that alone changed the driving experience of my car significantly. And that's coming from a car that already had an adaptive suspension. I would expect 50 more hp and adaptive suspension to make a significant difference in how this car drives as well.

Here's what's going to happen in 8 months: the people who actually drive a CS will love it, and the ones who don't will claim it's overpriced and not any better than the M2C.
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      09-19-2019, 05:08 PM   #64
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Where did I hear that date before?
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      09-19-2019, 05:44 PM   #65
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The gains basically all come from the CCBs and tune. Performs as expected. Great car other than the price.
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      09-19-2019, 05:51 PM   #66
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The gains basically all come from the CCBs and tune. Performs as expected. Great car other than the price.
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