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      05-16-2019, 05:35 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by PilotxERAU View Post
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Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
With that logic, spacers should work on a catless downpipe without any issues then.. Which it doesn't..
There is a night and day difference when going to FS DP from stock. There is no question, your ass tells you and that's better than any imperial data. If you can't feel it, what's the point?
Well, as long as you ass is happy..

I don't doubt there is a different feel in power looking at both inner catalyst, stock VS FS but I don't know about "night and day" difference; every review I read everyone talks about how great the sound is and only comment on a bump in power, nothing earth-shattering.

Is it really worth voiding your warranty and risk a possible CEL, when more of the same ass feedback can be achieved from say a $200 piggyback.. That's up to you to weight the pros and cons..

I have enough nonsense to deal with, a random CEL ding would drive me nuts and is not worth the possible risk verse reward IMO.
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      05-16-2019, 05:45 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
Well, as long as you ass is happy..

I don't doubt there is a different feel in power looking at both inner catalyst, stock VS FS but I don't know about "night and day" difference; every review I read everyone talks about how great the sound is and only comment on a bump in power, nothing earth-shattering.

Is it really worth voiding your warranty and risk a possible CEL, when more of the same ass feedback can be achieved from say a $200 piggyback.. That's up to you to weight the pros and cons..

I have enough nonsense to deal with, a random CEL ding would drive me nuts and is not worth the possible risk verse reward IMO.
To each his own, so I'm not disagreeing, but my opinion is slightly different:

The stock DP is more restrictive for sure. I don't think, though I could be wrong, that the lack of CEL on better high flow DPs is because of spacing. My understanding is that the HJS element in the higher quality DPs is able to perform the same function as the stock cat in terms of converting molecules to other molecules with a more efficient flow than stock. I do think the Fabspeed is a tad more smelly before it heats up than stock, but my nose isn't an exhaust gas analyser!

With regard to warranty, if you're worried, you can completely remove hardware every time you go to a dealer. I have done that myself the last time I went, but I'm not sure I'll bother next time because it is quite a bit of work. I enjoy working on my car myself, but usually that's in part because I'm improving it in some way, like performance. Putting it back to stock is a lot of work to reduce performance and it also means I have to go through the same amount of work again after the service!

I agree that a dealer can probably detect a tune even if flashed back to stock, but it would be difficult to a) claim that the DP caused an issue, and b) claim that one was fitted, even if the bolts were recently touched.
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      05-16-2019, 06:20 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by cecaa850 View Post
There's a thread of an M2 being converted entirely to a track car and regularly raced competitively with no engine failure.
If you're referring to Tyler Pappas "Tyspeed" car, he just replaced his engine with a new N55 with forged internals. Not sure why though.
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      05-16-2019, 10:36 PM   #48
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OP,

Knocking has been by far the most popular source for mechanical failure of internal components (piston, rod), or the only source we've known with N55 piston failure.

IAT/Octane can cause knock. But the destructive type of knocking normally happen with a lean burn. Lean burn we often hear with piggyback because of its inability of demanding as much more fuel as boost it adds. With flash, AFR is always normal at low 12s or even high 11s, because every tuner knows that works best for N55. How could lean burn happen in your case then?

Without seeing your log, this is only my speculation:

The IAT goes very high when tracking (AA IC is 10~15F better than stock at best), and BM3 OTS map sets a boost cap. They combined makes the VE(volumetric Efficiency), or simply air volume lower than when it's cold, therefore the fuel pump (to keep the targeted AFR) isn't stressed as much. However, when in-cylinder temp rises up to the point, along with many enough "soft" knocks detected, to protect the engine, DME would go much further than just retarding the ignition timing – it pulls load and dumps fuel, to cool things down. That's when fuel pump isn't able to keep up, and crash when combustion isn't cooled down enough, making a super lean burn.

It sounds like what's intended to save engine destroy it. Yes, because DME has no consideration of the fueling bottleneck when dumping fuel to cool down cylinders.

OP, fighting for warranty seems a long shot. Even with stock car, dealer can deny just because it's used on track. Unless you have reliable connection within the dealer then a different story.

I have to say our engine and DME is so smart that it's very very difficult to kill it. I've heard so many mechanical failures (not internal parts) as a indirect result of a broken 3rd party component. But not that engine itself isn't protective enough to handle the rough conditions.

If you want to continue with the mod game, you can take a look at CP piston, which can lower compression ratio to significantly improve knock resistance. Also mean that you can go higher boost than a normal N55 without having higher octane. It's expensive but OEM piston isn't cheap either.

Or you go conservative and find a way to buy cheap OEM. And use ACN maps and log until you have upgraded hardwares and/or better octane.
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      05-17-2019, 04:49 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by PilotxERAU View Post
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Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
With that logic, spacers should work on a catless downpipe without any issues then.. Which it doesn't..
There is a night and day difference when going to FS DP from stock. There is no question, your ass tells you and that's better than any imperial data. If you can't feel it, what's the point?
Well, as long as you ass is happy..

I don't doubt there is a different feel in power looking at both inner catalyst, stock VS FS but I don't know about "night and day" difference; every review I read everyone talks about how great the sound is and only comment on a bump in power, nothing earth-shattering.

Is it really worth voiding your warranty and risk a possible CEL, when more of the same ass feedback can be achieved from say a $200 piggyback.. That's up to you to weight the pros and cons..

I have enough nonsense to deal with, a random CEL ding would drive me nuts and is not worth the possible risk verse reward IMO.
You void the warranty with the piggyback too. Guess it can't get you arrested in California though.
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      05-17-2019, 05:26 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by akkando View Post
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Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
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Originally Posted by PilotxERAU View Post
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Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
With that logic, spacers should work on a catless downpipe without any issues then.. Which it doesn't..
There is a night and day difference when going to FS DP from stock. There is no question, your ass tells you and that's better than any imperial data. If you can't feel it, what's the point?
Well, as long as you ass is happy..

I don't doubt there is a different feel in power looking at both inner catalyst, stock VS FS but I don't know about "night and day" difference; every review I read everyone talks about how great the sound is and only comment on a bump in power, nothing earth-shattering.

Is it really worth voiding your warranty and risk a possible CEL, when more of the same ass feedback can be achieved from say a $200 piggyback.. That's up to you to weight the pros and cons..

I have enough nonsense to deal with, a random CEL ding would drive me nuts and is not worth the possible risk verse reward IMO.
You void the warranty with the piggyback too. Guess it can't get you arrested in California though.
A piggyback can be remove in less than a minute, in the dealer parking lot, while you wait for them to prep a loaner car, of which you going to transfer the same piggyback to. Hypothetically speaking, of course

A downpipe takes hours to R&R and on top of that, the gasket and fittings needs to be replaced upon every removal..

I'm not downplaying a sports cats, I was two step from getting one and I respect it existence but I'm just not the one to take risk and compromises that it entails. No judgement to anyone that appreciates its benefits.

Also, I guess I should of been more specific, you can get charged with tampering with a functioning catalytic converter in CA, not the end user but the business that installs it and operates in that state. The laws are not really that enforced but just highlighting the seriousness of this mod.
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      05-17-2019, 05:53 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nezil View Post
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Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
Well, as long as you ass is happy..

I don't doubt there is a different feel in power looking at both inner catalyst, stock VS FS but I don't know about "night and day" difference; every review I read everyone talks about how great the sound is and only comment on a bump in power, nothing earth-shattering.

Is it really worth voiding your warranty and risk a possible CEL, when more of the same ass feedback can be achieved from say a $200 piggyback.. That's up to you to weight the pros and cons..

I have enough nonsense to deal with, a random CEL ding would drive me nuts and is not worth the possible risk verse reward IMO.
To each his own, so I'm not disagreeing, but my opinion is slightly different:

The stock DP is more restrictive for sure. I don't think, though I could be wrong, that the lack of CEL on better high flow DPs is because of spacing. My understanding is that the HJS element in the higher quality DPs is able to perform the same function as the stock cat in terms of converting molecules to other molecules with a more efficient flow than stock. I do think the Fabspeed is a tad more smelly before it heats up than stock, but my nose isn't an exhaust gas analyser!

With regard to warranty, if you're worried, you can completely remove hardware every time you go to a dealer. I have done that myself the last time I went, but I'm not sure I'll bother next time because it is quite a bit of work. I enjoy working on my car myself, but usually that's in part because I'm improving it in some way, like performance. Putting it back to stock is a lot of work to reduce performance and it also means I have to go through the same amount of work again after the service!

I agree that a dealer can probably detect a tune even if flashed back to stock, but it would be difficult to a) claim that the DP caused an issue, and b) claim that one was fitted, even if the bolts were recently touched.
No the stock DP is the least restrictive one BMW could use and still comply with various emissions standards especially CARB. The FS DP has less catalyst and therefore is less restrictive and less able to remove emissions, hence the chance of CEL.
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      05-17-2019, 06:37 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by omasou View Post
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Originally Posted by Nezil View Post
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Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
Well, as long as you ass is happy..

I don't doubt there is a different feel in power looking at both inner catalyst, stock VS FS but I don't know about "night and day" difference; every review I read everyone talks about how great the sound is and only comment on a bump in power, nothing earth-shattering.

Is it really worth voiding your warranty and risk a possible CEL, when more of the same ass feedback can be achieved from say a $200 piggyback.. That's up to you to weight the pros and cons..

I have enough nonsense to deal with, a random CEL ding would drive me nuts and is not worth the possible risk verse reward IMO.
To each his own, so I'm not disagreeing, but my opinion is slightly different:

The stock DP is more restrictive for sure. I don't think, though I could be wrong, that the lack of CEL on better high flow DPs is because of spacing. My understanding is that the HJS element in the higher quality DPs is able to perform the same function as the stock cat in terms of converting molecules to other molecules with a more efficient flow than stock. I do think the Fabspeed is a tad more smelly before it heats up than stock, but my nose isn't an exhaust gas analyser!

With regard to warranty, if you're worried, you can completely remove hardware every time you go to a dealer. I have done that myself the last time I went, but I'm not sure I'll bother next time because it is quite a bit of work. I enjoy working on my car myself, but usually that's in part because I'm improving it in some way, like performance. Putting it back to stock is a lot of work to reduce performance and it also means I have to go through the same amount of work again after the service!

I agree that a dealer can probably detect a tune even if flashed back to stock, but it would be difficult to a) claim that the DP caused an issue, and b) claim that one was fitted, even if the bolts were recently touched.
No the stock DP is the least restrictive one BMW could use and still comply with various emissions standards especially CARB. The FS DP has less catalyst and therefore is less restrictive and less able to remove emissions, hence the chance of CEL.
I 100% agrees with you that a sports cat is less restrictive than stock but my argument is if the extra bump in power really worth hassle; from risking your warranty, possible CEL, failing state inspection, questionable product shelf-life and sketchy manufactures warranty.

From what I understand, the stock cat is not that restrictive to begin with. I'm sure you can gain from a sports cat but at what cost.

Like I said, if it's worth the power to you, go for it! Only you can weigh that decision..
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      05-17-2019, 06:55 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by omasou View Post
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Originally Posted by Nezil View Post
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Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
Well, as long as you ass is happy..

I don't doubt there is a different feel in power looking at both inner catalyst, stock VS FS but I don't know about "night and day" difference; every review I read everyone talks about how great the sound is and only comment on a bump in power, nothing earth-shattering.

Is it really worth voiding your warranty and risk a possible CEL, when more of the same ass feedback can be achieved from say a $200 piggyback.. That's up to you to weight the pros and cons..

I have enough nonsense to deal with, a random CEL ding would drive me nuts and is not worth the possible risk verse reward IMO.
To each his own, so I'm not disagreeing, but my opinion is slightly different:

The stock DP is more restrictive for sure. I don't think, though I could be wrong, that the lack of CEL on better high flow DPs is because of spacing. My understanding is that the HJS element in the higher quality DPs is able to perform the same function as the stock cat in terms of converting molecules to other molecules with a more efficient flow than stock. I do think the Fabspeed is a tad more smelly before it heats up than stock, but my nose isn't an exhaust gas analyser!

With regard to warranty, if you're worried, you can completely remove hardware every time you go to a dealer. I have done that myself the last time I went, but I'm not sure I'll bother next time because it is quite a bit of work. I enjoy working on my car myself, but usually that's in part because I'm improving it in some way, like performance. Putting it back to stock is a lot of work to reduce performance and it also means I have to go through the same amount of work again after the service!

I agree that a dealer can probably detect a tune even if flashed back to stock, but it would be difficult to a) claim that the DP caused an issue, and b) claim that one was fitted, even if the bolts were recently touched.
No the stock DP is the least restrictive one BMW could use and still comply with various emissions standards especially CARB. The FS DP has less catalyst and therefore is less restrictive and less able to remove emissions, hence the chance of CEL.
I 100% agrees with you that a sports cat is less restrictive than stock but my argument is if the extra bump in power really worth hassle; from risking your warranty, possible CEL, failing state inspection, questionable product shelf-life and sketchy manufactures warranty.

From what I understand, the stock cat is not that restrictive to begin with. I'm sure you can gain from a sports cat but at what cost.

Like I said, if it's worth the power to you, go for it! Only you can weigh that decision..
Oh, totally agree. I'm actually surprised...from past posts I thought I was the only one w/o a dp
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      05-17-2019, 11:25 AM   #54
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i agree with the others...dp and tune...you probably have no chance of warranty...unless you bought like 10 bmws brand new in the past...they might do a 50 50.

I guess still worth a shot to talk to bmw corporate...you might have a chance if you bought a lot of brand new bmws in the past.
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      05-17-2019, 12:34 PM   #55
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Sorry for your engine failure, OP. If I were in your shoes, I'd return the car completely to stock. All your mods can easily be reversed in a day.

Then I would get it towed to your local dealer. I wouldn't admit any mods or racing on the track. Just claim the failure during regular spirited back road driving. Some folks may disagree or claim dishonesty, but this is your best shot at avoiding a tremendously costly repair.

All that said, it doesn't matter whether your dealership likes you or even believes you for that matter. More than likely BMW corporate will send a regional tech to your dealer to review the car, and once they plugin to your DME they'll see the boost and other parameters you exceeded and deny your claim. This exact same thing happened to a guy on the M3 forum because of a slipped crank hub, but BMW corporate ended up splitting the repair with him 50%. Its better than nothing.

Of course, if none of that works you can always do an LS swap.
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      05-17-2019, 12:54 PM   #56
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Sorry for your engine failure, OP. If I were in your shoes, I'd return the car completely to stock. All your mods can easily be reversed in a day.

Then I would get it towed to your local dealer. I wouldn't admit any mods or racing on the track. Just claim the failure during regular spirited back road driving. Some folks may disagree or claim dishonesty, but this is your best shot at avoiding a tremendously costly repair.

All that said, it doesn't matter whether your dealership likes you or even believes you for that matter. More than likely BMW corporate will send a regional tech to your dealer to review the car, and once they plugin to your DME they'll see the boost and other parameters you exceeded and deny your claim. This exact same thing happened to a guy on the M3 forum because of a slipped crank hub, but BMW corporate ended up splitting the repair with him 50%. Its better than nothing.

Of course, if none of that works you can always do an LS swap.
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      05-17-2019, 01:04 PM   #57
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The whole downpipe issue is really a non issue. I have the FB sportcat and love it. If I need warranty work done I can replace it in about 30 minutes with the stock unit I kept. I wrench soley on my cars and this is a super easy task as I did the install in hour or less. Tuning using a flashtune modify the DME is a horse of a different color. That is why I chose to not tune yet
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      05-17-2019, 02:42 PM   #58
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Quote:
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Sorry for your engine failure, OP. If I were in your shoes, I'd return the car completely to stock. All your mods can easily be reversed in a day.

Then I would get it towed to your local dealer. I wouldn't admit any mods or racing on the track. Just claim the failure during regular spirited back road driving. Some folks may disagree or claim dishonesty, but this is your best shot at avoiding a tremendously costly repair.

All that said, it doesn't matter whether your dealership likes you or even believes you for that matter. More than likely BMW corporate will send a regional tech to your dealer to review the car, and once they plugin to your DME they'll see the boost and other parameters you exceeded and deny your claim. This exact same thing happened to a guy on the M3 forum because of a slipped crank hub, but BMW corporate ended up splitting the repair with him 50%. Its better than nothing.

Of course, if none of that works you can always do an LS swap.
Or instead of doing all that just be honest and tell them what happened and see if they will work with you. If you're a loyal customer and have purchased other new M cars before they probably will. If you have data logs of how the car was driven to show that it wasn't over heated or money shifted that would help as well.
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      05-17-2019, 02:50 PM   #59
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Op,
Have you had a chance to pull logs yet? If not, when can we expect them?

Secondly, a few posters have hijacked this thread bickering about whether or not to mod a car. Either agree to disagree or go start a thread of your own.
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      05-17-2019, 04:11 PM   #60
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Op,
Have you had a chance to pull logs yet? If not, when can we expect them?

Secondly, a few posters have hijacked this thread bickering about whether or not to mod a car. Either agree to disagree or go start a thread of your own.
I was thinking the exact same thing haha. All these extra posts over such a simple DP mod. Im sitting here thinking what else I can install in my car already being FBO.

OP I had similar problem few years ago with a brand new WRX. Heavily modded running E-85 spun a bearing. Reverted everything to stock & towed it to the dealer. They found traces of E-85 and denied all warranty work. I sold the car to the dealer with a broken engine. Looking back at it I would have kept the car and built the engine. I would definitely revert back to stock and take to dealer to see what happens maybe youll get lucky.
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      05-17-2019, 04:38 PM   #61
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I will try to stop by tonight to check on the logs.
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      05-17-2019, 04:56 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nothingman View Post
Sorry for your engine failure, OP. If I were in your shoes, I'd return the car completely to stock. All your mods can easily be reversed in a day.

Then I would get it towed to your local dealer. I wouldn't admit any mods or racing on the track. Just claim the failure during regular spirited back road driving. Some folks may disagree or claim dishonesty, but this is your best shot at avoiding a tremendously costly repair.

All that said, it doesn't matter whether your dealership likes you or even believes you for that matter. More than likely BMW corporate will send a regional tech to your dealer to review the car, and once they plugin to your DME they'll see the boost and other parameters you exceeded and deny your claim. This exact same thing happened to a guy on the M3 forum because of a slipped crank hub, but BMW corporate ended up splitting the repair with him 50%. Its better than nothing.

Of course, if none of that works you can always do an LS swap.
just a warning to the OP, this is technically considered fraud.

I havent heard of BMW prosecuting anyone for this...but you never know. You can be talking the BMW corporate guy...whose wife decided to divorce him and take his kides that same day..lol
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      05-17-2019, 04:57 PM   #63
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Or instead of doing all that just be honest and tell them what happened and see if they will work with you. If you're a loyal customer and have purchased other new M cars before they probably will. If you have data logs of how the car was driven to show that it wasn't over heated or money shifted that would help as well.
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      05-17-2019, 07:48 PM   #64
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Is there a way I can check what the M2 N55 Block part number is? I can't find it on RealOEM. I am assuming it should be the same as M235i N55? 11112295991 is the closest I can find. Granted no other damage this part seems to the be best option. MB with CP pistons. Dealership with a refurb engine is going to be around CAD 30k everything.
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      05-17-2019, 08:46 PM   #65
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Is there a way I can check what the M2 N55 Block part number is? I can't find it on RealOEM. I am assuming it should be the same as M235i N55? 11112295991 is the closest I can find. Granted no other damage this part seems to the be best option. MB with CP pistons. Dealership with a refurb engine is going to be around CAD 30k everything.
Looks like Paul-Bracq-BMW finally confirmed that the N55 is an open deck but when you open it up can you let us know?

May want to consider a S55 block if there aren't other things that would present problems.

Not to make lite of the situation but maybe you can make a rebuild thread like the guy on Grassroots who rebuilt his AMG engine b/c the headbolt snapped.

This shows where to look for the number...
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f...engine/HncUawo

I also found this information for you.

https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...1328493&page=3

http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=854477
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      05-18-2019, 03:44 AM   #66
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http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5cd89e31ae729b3d219312e2

These were the only logs that made it.
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