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M2 Technical Topics > N55 Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust / Bolt-ons / Tuning > Bootmod3 M2 OTS map update - Version 5.6

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      03-21-2019, 06:31 AM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanWRT View Post
Everyone seems to be afraid of the "unfulfilled power potential" of their car and is extremely happy to know you add more aggression to the OTS. But really they're trading power consistency for it.

From new logs, I don't really think US 93OCT is able to handle V5.7 on hot days. I even doubt Dinan turbo be enough to do it. Guys here must be much more excited than worried to hear that and cannot wait to try V5.7. Human nature.

Though I'm sure in Europe with better gas and cooler temp, V5.7 works very well.

To my standard, with western USA pump gas, V5.7 is over aggressive that it be best run with the STG2 turbo (bigger turbine and low manifold back pressure) which requires less octane for any given boost.

N55 is and has always been more of the little octane game, than anything else.
Safeties are still in meaning timing and load will be pulled at high intake air temps.

Also, what turbo are you referring to that has a lower backpressure? As far as I know, the M2 N55 market only has hybrids, are you 100% sure that these actually lower backpressure, any testing/data ? Remember, manifold is still the same.
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      03-21-2019, 06:41 AM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Halim@HCP View Post
Safeties are still in meaning timing and load will be pulled at high intake air temps.

Also, what turbo are you referring to that has a lower backpressure? As far as I know, the M2 N55 market only has hybrids, are you 100% sure that these actually lower backpressure, any testing/data ? Remember, manifold is still the same.
No one can provide measured data there is no probe there...

But it's the physics and turbo engineering. Turbine is a big source for back pressure. Imagine you're riding a bike, longer the pedal arm is, less resistance you feel. In the case of turbo, that's the turbine.

Remember the V9 you made me one year ago? Dinan turbo can't even handle it on cool days, timing pulled all over the place. Same map, G Power is running on it brilliantly under IAT of ~120F, like the best log N55 can ever see. It's all you man.
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      03-21-2019, 06:47 AM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanWRT View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halim@HCP View Post
Safeties are still in meaning timing and load will be pulled at high intake air temps.

Also, what turbo are you referring to that has a lower backpressure? As far as I know, the M2 N55 market only has hybrids, are you 100% sure that these actually lower backpressure, any testing/data ? Remember, manifold is still the same.
No one can provide measured data there is no probe there...

But it's the physics and turbo engineering. Turbine is a big source for back pressure. Imagine you're riding a bike, longer the pedal arm is, less resistance you feel. In the case of turbo, that's the turbine.

Remember the V9 you made me one year ago? Same map, Dinan turbo can't handle it on cool days, timing pulled all over the place. G Power is running on it brilliantly under IAT of ~120F, like the best log N55 can ever see. It's all you man.
No need to introduce me to this lol, I know. This post went from OTS updates to something much more advanced for the average joe.

Everything is thought out, 120F even stock timing will be pulled. That's how the calibration is set up.
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      03-21-2019, 07:34 AM   #114
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Does these OTS maps still have some sort of 'Overboost' feature like the stock map does?
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      03-21-2019, 07:43 AM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squixs View Post
Does these OTS maps still have some sort of 'Overboost' feature like the stock map does?
Yes in sport plus
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      03-21-2019, 07:50 AM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanWRT View Post
No one can provide measured data there is no probe there...

But it's the physics and turbo engineering. Turbine is a big source for back pressure. Imagine you're riding a bike, longer the pedal arm is, less resistance you feel. In the case of turbo, that's the turbine.

Remember the V9 you made me one year ago? Dinan turbo can't even handle it on cool days, timing pulled all over the place. Same map, G Power is running on it brilliantly under IAT of ~120F, like the best log N55 can ever see. It's all you man.
Is V9 similar to the current stage 2?
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      03-21-2019, 08:42 AM   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cecaa850 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanWRT View Post
No one can provide measured data there is no probe there...

But it's the physics and turbo engineering. Turbine is a big source for back pressure. Imagine you're riding a bike, longer the pedal arm is, less resistance you feel. In the case of turbo, that's the turbine.

Remember the V9 you made me one year ago? Dinan turbo can't even handle it on cool days, timing pulled all over the place. Same map, G Power is running on it brilliantly under IAT of ~120F, like the best log N55 can ever see. It's all you man.
Is V9 similar to the current stage 2?
Much more boost than V5.7. Pull like mad the full range.

Literally I feel it's too strong for every day. Maybe Also 10-20whp more than my current map.
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      03-21-2019, 08:56 AM   #118
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Halim@HCP & SeanWRT know more about engine tuning than I ever will, but the BM3 platform has given me the tools to get feedback, learn, and help sort out my car, e.g., my high IATs on warmer days will be addressed soon.

The piece of real world experience that I can echo and that the guys are mentioning is just how knife edge the car is with octane. I find even 93 on a cold day isn’t good enough when you’re really pushing the motor at the track. Does it work, sure, but even just bumping to 96 octane the engine feels much smoother (and a tiny bit stronger).

It’s enough of a positive improvement that I may just start using Boostane all the time. They have a very handy app that calculates octane and additional cost per gallon to hit your desired octane level. For me to go to 96, it’s an additional $3.50 per fill up to get to 96. For the 91 guys, it’s $1.75/tank to get to 93 and $4/tank to get to 96.

I only mention this bc it’s clear octane is the biggest bottleneck with our cars, and I really feel for the 91 guys.
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      03-21-2019, 09:48 AM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZM2 View Post
Halim@HCP & SeanWRT know more about engine tuning than I ever will, but the BM3 platform has given me the tools to get feedback, learn, and help sort out my car, e.g., my high IATs on warmer days will be addressed soon.

The piece of real world experience that I can echo and that the guys are mentioning is just how knife edge the car is with octane. I find even 93 on a cold day isnít good enough when youíre really pushing the motor at the track. Does it work, sure, but even just bumping to 96 octane the engine feels much smoother (and a tiny bit stronger).

Itís enough of a positive improvement that I may just start using Boostane all the time. They have a very handy app that calculates octane and additional cost per gallon to hit your desired octane level. For me to go to 96, itís an additional $3.50 per fill up to get to 96. For the 91 guys, itís $1.75/tank to get to 93 and $4/tank to get to 96.

I only mention this bc itís clear octane is the biggest bottleneck with our cars, and I really feel for the 91 guys.
How much of your issue is octane related and how much is having a stock IC? Will you try not running an additive when you swap IC's?
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      03-21-2019, 10:00 AM   #120
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Only thing about boostane is all the orange residue all over the car. Plugs, exhaust, and who knows where else. Can't be good in my opinion
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      03-21-2019, 10:05 AM   #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanWRT View Post

From new logs, I don't really think US 93OCT is able to handle V5.7 on hot days.
Ok..I’m looking for some practical guidance (Halim, Sean..listening ?)

When logging at track this summer on V-Power and Stg 2 93, what channels (and values) do I review to see if I’m about to either 1. hurt the motor or 2. Enter limp mode..or just lose power.

Next...what’s a good response (other than just parking it) when running on that ragged edge on track ?
1. Swap to a less aggressive OTS map (like Stg 2 91 or maybe Stg 1 93..which ?)
2. Head for the high octane / high $$$ pumps ??
3. Something else ?

Thanks
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      03-21-2019, 10:11 AM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanWRT View Post
Everyone seems to be afraid of the "unfulfilled power potential" of their car and is extremely happy to know you add more aggression to the OTS. But really they're trading power consistency for it.

From new logs, I don't really think US 93OCT is able to handle V5.7 on hot days. I even doubt Dinan turbo be enough to do it. Guys here must be much more excited than worried to hear that and cannot wait to try V5.7. Human nature.

Though I'm sure in Europe with better gas and cooler temp, V5.7 works very well.

To my standard, with western USA pump gas, V5.7 is over aggressive that it be best run with the STG2 turbo (bigger turbine and low manifold back pressure) which requires less octane for any given boost.

N55 is and has always been more of the little octane game, than anything else.
What is your definition of "hot days"?
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      03-21-2019, 10:17 AM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cecaa850 View Post
How much of your issue is octane related and how much is having a stock IC? Will you try not running an additive when you swap IC's?
I’m actually running the Dinan IC, which my logs show isn’t good enough for higher boost maps with the Dinan turbo.

I’ve never run additive, but anytime I’ve gone to the track (40+ days in my M2) from stock thru various tune & mod stages, I always experienced timing pull and reduced power on 93 once the engine started getting nice and warm.

Adding 1/3-1/2 tank of 100 octane always cured the issue, except on hot days. The 100 octane would help on hot days, but the overall bottleneck at that point was high IATs. Boostane is much cheaper than buying 100 octane pump gas, so I’m going to give it a shot.

Even with 93-96 octane, most all of us have times when we drive in 90F+ weather, and even with the best IC, it’s inevitable you’ll experience timing pull as IATs go over 120F. There’s nothing we can do about that with our air to air intercooling on the N55.

This comes back to SeanWRT point about tuning for max power or tuning for consistency. If you’re focused on max power, you have to realize you’ll only hit it under ideal conditions (cold weather, high octane, no back to back pulls). Whereas, the OTS maps will get you close to max power much more often (warmer days, good octane, track days).

This said, there are so many variables for each of us when it comes to mods, gas, weather, if you’re driving on the street or track, etc that the best thing to do is start with a map, log, see what’s doing well & what’s not, adjust, log, review, adjust, log, review, etc. I enjoy this part of BM3 and the forum bc I learn more each time.

If anyone doesn’t want to worry about all that, just go OTS, and then they don’t have to worry about asking all these questions.

Last edited by ZM2; 03-21-2019 at 10:28 AM..
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      03-21-2019, 10:25 AM   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nioh_lbbm2 View Post
Only thing about boostane is all the orange residue all over the car. Plugs, exhaust, and who knows where else. Can't be good in my opinion
Yeah, thatís why Iím on the fence about running it all the time vs just at the track. The reality is I donít really need it on the street, just gives a little extra octane headroom on hot days when the IATs are going up.
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      03-21-2019, 10:35 AM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony1s View Post
What is your definition of "hot days"?
Hot is a relative term. If you have strong hardware and good octane, 100F ambient isn't really hot. But as far as I know US gas and M2 FBO hardware, I think 80F ambient (which means 100+F of IAT) is hot.

But no need to worry with OTS as Halim pointed out it's been well tested and with load control. I know he is a master at what he's doing, he has his way to cap VE (volumetric efficiency) to IAT. Meaning you wouldn't go over aggressive when hot.

You can always log to know. Because as you know, ACN gas is worse than we thought.
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      03-21-2019, 01:43 PM   #126
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Received an ACN91 specific tune from BM3 this morning. Hopefully I have some time this weekend to log and will report back. I can post a new thread on this if anyone else is interested
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      03-21-2019, 01:50 PM   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nioh_lbbm2 View Post
Received an ACN91 specific tune from BM3 this morning. Hopefully I have some time this weekend to log and will report back. I can post a new thread on this if anyone else is interested
Def would be great to see the logs and feedback under a new thread.
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      03-21-2019, 04:15 PM   #128
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I have a question, exhaust burble, on the map 5.7, safe for sportcat 200-300 cell?
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      03-21-2019, 07:53 PM   #129
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Here are my assumptions:
-FBO 18' LCI with fab speed and Wagner comp 2
-93 AKI octane gas (which is chemically 93)
-the 5.7 version non-AGG OTS map

Can the car consistently handle the OTS stage 2 5.7 map without pulls at reasonable ambient temperatures of 32-105f in daily spirited driving?

Though I have read conflicting accounts, Halim gave me the impression that the map is conservative enough to answer yes to that question. And that would be my expectation for an OTS map since that's how it's advertised - a stage 2 93 map. Otherwise you would get a custom map for your specific assumptions and expectations.

If this is not correct and the OTS is built for a one time 0-100 drag race, then I would like to know so I can drop down to the 91 map
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      03-21-2019, 07:59 PM   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonidm2 View Post
I have a question, exhaust burble, on the map 5.7, safe for sportcat 200-300 cell?
Yes, that's what it's made for.
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      03-21-2019, 09:03 PM   #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msmiljanic View Post
Here are my assumptions:
-FBO 18' LCI with fab speed and Wagner comp 2
-93 AKI octane gas (which is chemically 93)
-the 5.7 version non-AGG OTS map

Can the car consistently handle the OTS stage 2 5.7 map without pulls at reasonable ambient temperatures of 32-105f in daily spirited driving?

Though I have read conflicting accounts, Halim gave me the impression that the map is conservative enough to answer yes to that question. And that would be my expectation for an OTS map since that's how it's advertised - a stage 2 93 map. Otherwise you would get a custom map for your specific assumptions and expectations.

If this is not correct and the OTS is built for a one time 0-100 drag race, then I would like to know so I can drop down to the 91 map
You can beat it all day long

The hotter the car gets the less power it will make due to safety reasons, safeties are not increased/removed on our OTS maps.
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      03-22-2019, 06:55 PM   #132
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Halim@HCP

5.7 says load control revised. What does that mean?
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