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      12-20-2018, 04:38 PM   #23
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What do you guys think about the VTT upgrade, they're going to be using a genuine Garrett gyx 3076r core + cast housings and a cast exhaust manifold. It looks pretty promising so far and is only $500 more than the ps2.
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      12-20-2018, 05:41 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F87source View Post
What do you guys think about the VTT upgrade, they're going to be using a genuine Garrett gyx 3076r core + cast housings and a cast exhaust manifold. It looks pretty promising so far and is only $500 more than the ps2.
The only issue is that it looks like it only supports PWGs (I believe all M2s have EWGs, please correct me if I'm wrong). This is according to the order form here: http://performance.vargasturbo.com/e...&product_id=31

They do say "Please be sure to specify year as there are some changes after 2013", which I believe may be referencing the wastegate change, so it's possible they have an EWG version, it's just not showing up on the site.

The S1 version http://performance.vargasturbo.com/e...&product_id=41 does explicitly support EWG.
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      12-20-2018, 05:51 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eeyang92 View Post
The only issue is that it looks like it only supports PWGs (I believe all M2s have EWGs, please correct me if I'm wrong). This is according to the order form here: http://performance.vargasturbo.com/e...&product_id=31

They do say "Please be sure to specify year as there are some changes after 2013", which I believe may be referencing the wastegate change, so it's possible they have an EWG version, it's just not showing up on the site.

The S1 version http://performance.vargasturbo.com/e...&product_id=41 does explicitly support EWG.
Yup they have a thread about it on the other forum, ewg is coming next. I should have mentioned that lol.

Ideally I would like to have a Borg Warner efr 7670 kit from speedtech, but that's alot of cash for ~470whp-500whp. Nearing the 500whp range a stage 2 hybrid turbo does get iats pretty high, low 400-450ish it's fine but I want a bit extra grunt, especially on pump gas.

Plus these turbos should be alot more reliable for hard track use.
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      12-21-2018, 09:03 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F87source View Post
Yup they have a thread about it on the other forum, ewg is coming next. I should have mentioned that lol.

Ideally I would like to have a Borg Warner efr 7670 kit from speedtech, but that's alot of cash for ~470whp-500whp. Nearing the 500whp range a stage 2 hybrid turbo does get iats pretty high, low 400-450ish it's fine but I want a bit extra grunt, especially on pump gas.

Plus these turbos should be alot more reliable for hard track use.
The two I have narrowed my selection down to are the VTT Garrett 3670R and the Speedtech BW EFR7670. It sounds like you and I are on the same path.

I communicated with Tony at VTT and he wouldn't give me a date for the EWG release only to say that the housings are being cast now. I can't figure out why he's casting a new housing anyways and not just using the Garrett complete housing instead of just the CHRA? I also have a concern with a couple of the threads on Facebook in the N55 groups saying VTT has quality control problems and some of their turbos are failing in the field.

I also communicated with Jeff at Speedtech and learned the EFR kit required a bracket to move the water pump since the BW turbo is so large. I asked for pictures, but he didn't provide any. He did say he has a customer with an M2 who ordered the kit, but he hasn't received any feedback on any installation issues.

I'll follow-up with both of them and see if I can get any new details.
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      12-21-2018, 09:40 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nothingman View Post
I can't figure out why he's casting a new housing anyways and not just using the Garrett complete housing instead of just the CHRA?
Off the shelf turbo in the market do not fit stock location. It needs custom mounting and custom exhaust (downpipe). In that way, it would be a stage 3 turbo.

I'm a big fan of VTTO's idea back in 2015 when they release their Garrett CHRA turbo, but apparently, they failed. It doesn't spool faster than PS2 and doesn't make more power either.

A successful turbo kit is a lot more than the concept, it's mostly in the execution.
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      12-21-2018, 09:47 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanWRT View Post
Off the shelf turbo in the market do not fit stock location. It needs custom mounting and custom exhaust (downpipe). In that way, it would be a stage 3 turbo.

I'm a big fan of VTTO's idea back in 2015 when they release their Garrett CHRA turbo, but apparently, they failed. It doesn't spool faster than PS2 and doesn't make more power either.

A successful turbo kit is a lot more than the concept, it's mostly in the execution.
Their stage 3 kit uses a cast manifold with a custom cast turbo housing and Garrett 3670R CHRA center section. Are you claiming they are using a cast housing to make it smaller than a standard Garrett 3670R housing so it can use the stock mounting and downpipe? If so, that would make this another hybrid turbo option similar to what Steamspeed is calling their stage 2.5.
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      12-21-2018, 10:06 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nothingman View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanWRT View Post
Off the shelf turbo in the market do not fit stock location. It needs custom mounting and custom exhaust (downpipe). In that way, it would be a stage 3 turbo.

I'm a big fan of VTTO's idea back in 2015 when they release their Garrett CHRA turbo, but apparently, they failed. It doesn't spool faster than PS2 and doesn't make more power either.

A successful turbo kit is a lot more than the concept, it's mostly in the execution.
Their stage 3 kit uses a cast manifold with a custom cast turbo housing and Garrett 3670R CHRA center section. Are you claiming they are using a cast housing to make it smaller than a standard Garrett 3670R housing so it can use the stock mounting and downpipe? If so, that would make this another hybrid turbo option similar to what Steamspeed is calling their stage 2.5.
BMW cast turbine section and manifold in one piece, most of others don't. That means if you cast turbine section for bmw platform, you need to make manifold as well.

Normally stage 3 turbo does not include manifold. The closest platform is A45 AMG which use the same BW turbo from factory but manifold and turbo isn't in one piece. Their stage 3 upgrade (top mount) do not need a new manifold.
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      12-21-2018, 10:15 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanWRT View Post
BMW cast turbine section and manifold in one piece, most of others don't. That means if you cast turbine section for bmw platform, you need to make manifold as well.

Normally stage 3 turbo does not include manifold. The closest platform is A45 AMG which use the same BW turbo from factory but manifold and turbo isn't in one piece. Their stage 3 upgrade (top mount) do not need a new manifold.
I'm not sure we're talking about the same part. The manifold I am referring to is the exhaust manifold, aka turbo manifold, often referred to here as the "turbofold". It sounds like you are referring to the turbo housing?
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      12-21-2018, 10:24 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nothingman View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanWRT View Post
BMW cast turbine section and manifold in one piece, most of others don't. That means if you cast turbine section for bmw platform, you need to make manifold as well.

Normally stage 3 turbo does not include manifold. The closest platform is A45 AMG which use the same BW turbo from factory but manifold and turbo isn't in one piece. Their stage 3 upgrade (top mount) do not need a new manifold.
I'm not sure we're talking about the same part. The manifold I am referring to is the exhaust manifold, aka turbo manifold, often referred to here as the "turbofold". It sounds like you are referring to the turbo housing?
Same part we're talking about.

I was explaining why VTTO has to cast their own everything instead of using Garrett off the shelf stuff.

VTTO needs to use new casting to keep everything factory location, otherwise he has to custom make downpipe, which would be a stage 3 kit.
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      12-21-2018, 11:31 AM   #32
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Good read from a guy on another forum who has a 2012 N55 135i and went with the Speedtech EFR7670 and does a comparison to both PS2 and Big Boost:

https://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50451

Quote:
I have installed both a PS2 and a speedtech kit, seem in depth install of the bigboost kit and tuned the s*** out of a ps2 kit. We are coming up to the holiday season and with 3 different great turbo options out here I wanted to provide some feedback for those who do not know the important but untold differences

I have installed both a PS2 and a speedtech kit, seem in depth install of the bigboost kit and tuned the s*** out of a ps2 kit. We are coming up to the holiday season and with 3 different great turbo options out here I wanted to provide some feedback for those who do not know the important but untowld differences. Ill start with the tried and true.

Pure stage 2: Ok, this has a cult following, for good reason.
2500+750+135+250~3635 (comparing to no core to keep apples to apples)
Pro:
- Plug and play bolt on
- Pretty reliable 500whp
- Dual seals on both sides. VERY reliable from a hydrid
- OEM look, near OEM spool
- Fits every platform
- Fits engine bay well (no need to move things)
Cons:
- Capped at say 550 whp. You can say more but im going to use average. This will require e85 or meth for octane and you will need 24-26 psi
- Restrictive stock turbofold. This puts stress on engine and on turbine wheel. Note: Pure has revised turbine wheel to much beefier one due to them shattering at high boost, only so much leverage you can get from a blade. The cult following has the few of these failures covered in haze and smoke

Overall you CANNOT go wrong with PS2. If you are happy, honestly happy, long term with 500whp then this is your option. Its reliable, can take a beating, good company, and you have a entire cult to join with you . There is a reason for it..... N55 is likely capped to 600-650 whp, and you could maybe get there with a PS2, but the engine will not be happy. I think you should limit safe use of PS2 to 500.

Bigboost: Wasn't sure about this kit until I saw it installed.
4000-5250 depending on turbo and BOV options
Pro:
- cast manifold (this may be a con for some).
- Turbo fits engine bay OK. Sits higher than speedtech, smaller frame turbo
- - FAR less pre turbo back pressure. Should correlate to better VE and happier engine (big pro in my book)
- DO not have to move water pump (I believe, didn't appear to need to)
- Provide hard lines for inlet, outlet, and coolant *****
- Coolant pipe design allows for "adjustments" to fit engine bay
- Should be able to hit 600whp with right turbo
- get to use a external BOV
Cons:
- Non preferred turbo. This is only one line but its a very important one
- manifold uses a gasket instead of the OEM nose + graphite ring
- pricey for the turbo
- slower spool compared to PS2 and speedtech
- Manifold is a heavy pita, so is engine mount, no concern for weight on this kit. Although I think reliability and fitment are likely more important
- coolant line has smaller ID, looks to be a good bit, this may or may not matter. As a engineer it concerns me, but if nobodies getting high temp warnings, may not matter.

Overall the bigboost kit looks good. comes from a actual company, the kit definitely fits a 135i. I have had a hard time getting ahold of them, there number does not work and its been days with no response via email. Fitment is good, hardware is good minus turbo, looks like a pretty solid options, wish it came with a better turbo, would make it a great kit. Turbo is the heart of the thing.

Speedtech: This was my choice for many reasons, but would like to update post install. I chose the speedtech kit because I thought the manifold was well sorted out but mainly because the EFR turbo. This things has a heart of gold, its a sexy amazing turbo in every way.
3800 no bov needed as its internal.
Note: the speedtech kit does not currently fit the e82 chassis. I believe I was the one to learn this. It also does not have a port for the DCT cooler. Speedtech has great customer service though and Jeff has been helpful and easy to get ahold of since day 1. I have shared all my lessons with him and would expect a e82 kit in 3-6 months. If you need to make one fit before then then email me and i can show you what I fabricated to make it work.
Pro:
- Best manifold: well through through manifold thats cast but lightish designed using CFD
- BY FAR BEST turbo: EFR has gamma Ti wheels, best casting methods, internal wastegate, GIANT bearings and dual seals. Its a beast. FOr this reason the center section and parts of comp/turbine are much larger than say a gtx or the bigboost turbo.
- PS2 spool (or better, time will tell)
- FAR less pre turbo back pressure. Should correlate to better VE and happier engine (big pro in my book)
- ******** and up pipe are well made
Cons:
- Tight: this thing barely fits, it fits, but barely.
- 4 ply silicone is used for all coolant piping and outlet pipe to IC. I think it works, but i prefer hard lines. its flexible so makes the install a bit easier, maybe
- Have to move water pump forward using provided mount
- does not fit e82 (currently)

All in all I have learned several things.
1. Use PS2 if you goals are 500whp or 450 on pump
2. drop the subframe. I did mine without, the bigboost was done dropping, way way easier
3. if you go bigboost or speedtech invest in some dei thermal tape and headerwrap and wrap everything, tight, then silicone spray. Dont install twice because of heat
4. On speedtech only
- move diverter valve solenoid, unbolt from turbo prior to putting it on. use longer hose and move it near coolant tank
- If speedtech in next 6 months you will need some aluminum tubing and fittings to make a hardline to go from water pump bend to up near block coolant inlet. This uses aluminum in the hottest parts vs 4ply. I think wrapped 4 ply would be ok also though, if this is what speedtech ends up doing.
- If going on e chassis make sure you have the right wastegate actuator rod length. The e82 has a longer one by about a inch compared to the f30, so you will have to cut it.

Ok I think thats about it. I still think, especially for the price, the speedtech kit is the only stage 3 I would go with. If bigboost updated its turbo then that might change depending on cost and how they did it. At the end of the day you are paying for the
- turbo
- manifold
- connection system

If you are a f chassis, or even a e90 (probably) then the speedtech is the choice. I would go speedtech even if my goals where 500, but thats just me. If you are e82 you will need bigboost or be ready to fabricate, unless speedtech comes up with a solution, which I am sure they will since its a relatively easy fix. If you are DCT you will be in same boat as e82.

Just some food for thought guys, I hope it helps make your decisions more justified.
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      12-21-2018, 01:57 PM   #33
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Vtt has to cast their parts to make a new exhaust manifold to fit to the engine since the stock BMW one is a one piece design.

They needed to cast a new turbo housing like Sean said was to keep the stock downpipe fitting properly, and have the outlet of the turbo point forward instead of up like on regular gtx 3076r's, to make for better turbo to intercooler pipe fitment (probably stock will fit).

In terms of reliability the 2015 models had issues from what I hear but since then they have perfected the GC 2.0 for the n54, in terms of spool it shouldn't make a difference because it will flow more than PS2 at all rpm ranges, and make more power at all rpms. Plus I heard all of their failures came from their custom chras leaking due to bad seals, wheels exploding etc. If they use oem Garrett parts there it shouldn't be an issue, the casted parts should be fine, plus they offer ceramic coating to deal with heat.

Yup I saw that n54tech post, I frequent that sight alot.
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      01-02-2019, 04:56 PM   #34
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So is there a point in upgrading the turbo without upgrading fuel system stuff along with it?
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      01-02-2019, 05:04 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eeyang92 View Post
I know this may be a silly question to ask, but what kind of reliability hit should one expect when pushing +100-200 HP over stock? For example, if the N55 lasts on 100k miles on average before major problems, after tuning, should I expect the lifetime of the engine to go down significantly, perhaps to 50k miles? Even less? I'm just trying to get a sense of how much damage I'll be doing to my wallet

On the other hand, if you only increase torque slightly, but allow the top end to breathe easier with a big turbo and increased fueling (preventing the torque drop off after 6k RPM) for higher top-end HP, I don't think that should effect reliability too much, right?

I see that some of the companies listed above claim "OEM reliability", but that's probably referring to the turbo only, and not the system as a whole.
It really generally depends on the maintenance routine taken. It also depends on how you drive the car, do you let it warm up before beating on it, do you bounce off the rev limiter every chance you get etc.

There's not set amount of mileage when everything goes wrong etc, but expect with higher horsepower wear will increase, how much depends on your driving style and maintenance habits.
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      01-02-2019, 05:06 PM   #36
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So is there a point in upgrading the turbo without upgrading fuel system stuff along with it?
You'll get more bottom end grunt, and mid range power but the upper end of the spectrum will fall off. Imo yes because you'll have a more efficient system dropping it's, and allowing more power on the same octane fuel. The issue is you won't be able to max it out or you may not be able to get much gains.
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      01-02-2019, 10:19 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony1s View Post
So is there a point in upgrading the turbo without upgrading fuel system stuff along with it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by F87source View Post
You'll get more bottom end grunt, and mid range power but the upper end of the spectrum will fall off. Imo yes because you'll have a more efficient system dropping it's, and allowing more power on the same octane fuel. The issue is you won't be able to max it out or you may not be able to get much gains.
Short answer: Probably not.

Much like F87source said, if you don't plan on upgrading the fuel system in any way, you really won't see much benefit out of an upgraded turbo. I'd venture to even say save your money if you don't plan on doing both the turbo and fuel system upgrade. I only disagree with one thing said above, what you'll end up actually doing is getting LESS bottom end power (not more), and more mid-range, with slightly more top-end. Ultimately, all you'll be doing is getting a much flatter torque curve with boost that comes on slightly later on in the RPM band.

Obviously that answer isn't concrete because it all depends on which turbo you go with, but if you go with any of the popular choices, then yes, you will end up with LESS low end power because the turbo will take longer to spool / produce boost.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PackPride85 View Post
Don't forget the $2500 fuel pump upgrade to take advantage of any of these.
Yup, short and sweet it's either the HPFP upgrade offered by TTFS/XDI, or good old methanol injection which is the route I took

If anyone is seriously thinking of upgrading their turbo, I would highly recommend them read either my own build thread or SeanWRT's thread on his turbo upgrade. Both of those threads are written with in great detail, and more importantly they encompass two different approaches to unlocking more power from the N55 M2.
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      01-02-2019, 10:45 PM   #38
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Is turbo swap still a viable option compared to the s55?
Currently in Aus used m2(non lci) can be picked up for 70-75k aud if I can get
450-500+ whp without mucking around too much I would probably give it a crack.
What power are we seeing without fueling upgrades? Ie. 3-4k aud saving.

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      01-18-2019, 12:20 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nothingman View Post
The two I have narrowed my selection down to are the VTT Garrett 3670R and the Speedtech BW EFR7670. It sounds like you and I are on the same path.

I communicated with Tony at VTT and he wouldn't give me a date for the EWG release only to say that the housings are being cast now. I can't figure out why he's casting a new housing anyways and not just using the Garrett complete housing instead of just the CHRA? I also have a concern with a couple of the threads on Facebook in the N55 groups saying VTT has quality control problems and some of their turbos are failing in the field.

I also communicated with Jeff at Speedtech and learned the EFR kit required a bracket to move the water pump since the BW turbo is so large. I asked for pictures, but he didn't provide any. He did say he has a customer with an M2 who ordered the kit, but he hasn't received any feedback on any installation issues.

I'll follow-up with both of them and see if I can get any new details.
Please keep us updated. I am thinking of getting a used 2018 bmw (new model seems to really lowered older m2's price.) I'm leaning towards used 2018 m2 with around 10k miles, getting the 7670 EFR turbo on it WITH external wastegates. I have a Honda S2000 with a 7670 twinscroll set up with dual external wastegates and love the simplicity.
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      01-21-2019, 09:25 PM   #40
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Hello everyone, I introduce myself, I'm Juan at BigBoost, LLC, hereinafter called "BigBoost Turbo" located in South Florida with over 28 years of experience in turbocharger engineering. We have supplied OEM industry since 2006 with over 20 thousand heavy duty diesel trucks turbo systems. Our quality has been proven and accepted by KIA, Hyundai and Mitsubishi for over 10 years now, so if you decide to go BigBoost you can be sure our quality meets OEM standards and even surpass them!

We have an specific M2 F87 turbo kit available, as most of you may know the subframe is completely different from a regular F2x or F3x. This kit will bolt-on directly to your F87 M2.

We have now a Dual Ceramic Ball-Bearing option to fit these kits, for an extra charge of $350, however we are having a group buy for the ball bearing turbo kit which will go for a price of $2700 simple kit and $2900 Complete kit. We will also have a 600+ WHP build kit, which includes Stage 2 LPFP, Port Injection, BM3 custom tune, Spark Plugs and the turbo kit, going for $4100.

What our kit includes:
- Twin Scroll Manifold with 1.5" runners for all 6 cylinders
- Dual Ceramic Ball Bearing Turbo Charger
- 4-Ply Silicone Hoses
- D0wnP1pe
- V Band clamps
- Coolant Aeroquip Hoses
- Hard pipe for cooling system
- Billet Aluminum Intercooler coupler
- VTA DV System
- Boost Pipe
- 2 Piece 3" Turbocharger Inlet
- Oil feed stainless steel braided AN lines
- Stainless steel oil feed
- Turbo oil drain coupler
- Oil Drain Aeroquip Hose
- All Stainless steel hose clamps

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-----------------

Why going Stage 3 with BigBoost?

- We have done intense and harsh in-house testing, measuring individual cylinder EGTs, and back pressure. With our kit you will see 1.11-1.12:1 Back pressure ratios, these are safe and ideal levels of back pressure for the engine to operate smoothly and safely.
- Fully custom turbocharger units designed to meet the flow capacity on the BMW N55 engine on the exhaust and intake side. We have tried well over 15 turbine and compressor wheel profiles and designs to determine which will provide the most efficient flow. Our IN-House Gas stand allows us to do so.
- Race Cars running our turbo kit in 6-12 hours endurance racing with amazing results.
- Best customer support in the industry, any time you can hit me up on text, FB, IG, WhatsApp, email, etc... whatever works best for you you'll see a less than 10 min response time from me or any person on the BigBoost Team.
- We provide tuning advices and even do custom maps if required.
- We DO NOT relocate the water pump, you keep it in the stock position, not even required to remove it to install the turbo kit.
- We provide install guides with over 100 pictures of the installation of each and every component on the kit.
- We DO NOT change the engine mount bracket!! You will keep your OEM RH engine mount bracket.
- Boost Control managed with the stock EWG system
- LAST but not Least, there's not a single Chinese part in our turbo system, it's all proudly made in the USA and other few parts like the turbo imported from South America.

Turbo specs:

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Option 1

Compressor:
- Inducer: 61mm
- Exducer: 88 mm

Turbine:
- Inducer: 74.0 mm
- Exducer: 64.5 mm

Option 2:

Compressor:
- Inducer: 65.0 mm
- Exducer: 94.0 mm

Turbine:
- Inducer: 74.0 mm
- Exducer: 64.5 mm
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      01-21-2019, 09:50 PM   #41
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It's not bad at all! Very nice!

Just wish you guys had a larger selection of turbos like Borg Warner efrs, OE Garrett gtx. Otherwise pricing is great.
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      01-22-2019, 08:47 PM   #42
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      01-23-2019, 02:37 AM   #43
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This is getting interesting.
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      01-23-2019, 02:42 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ORG M2 View Post
This is getting interesting.
+1
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