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M2 Technical Topics > N55 Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust / Bolt-ons / Tuning > THE ULTIMATE Intercooler Thread - What to Look For Before Buying an FMIC

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      10-28-2018, 04:13 PM   #67
switlikbob
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com View Post
Active Autowerke FMIC vs stock
Mike, do you have a comparison picture between the Wagner and AA units? They appear to be similar to my untrained eye...
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      10-29-2018, 10:18 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by switlikbob View Post
Mike, do you have a comparison picture between the Wagner and AA units? They appear to be similar to my untrained eye...
The Wagner EVO I and the Active Autowerke are the same size.
The Wagner EVO II is a larger unit
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      10-30-2018, 08:11 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com View Post
Intercooler: Wagner EVO II Competition (very light, fast temp recovery and lower pressure air drop) VRSF race or CSF (impressive IAT control for both)
Active Autowerke or VRSF charge pipe
Thanks for the recommendations. Does that mean the Wagner will have less turbo lag, but less outright HP?
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      10-30-2018, 08:16 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atlas View Post
I currently have the CSF intake, Fabspeed Sportcat DP, and BM3 Stage 1. I'm looking to add an intercooler so I can run Stage 2. Which IC would you recommend? And which pipes to pair with?
If you're planning on upgrading turbos in the future you won't find an intercooler that can compete with the VRSF Race. We use a more efficient core with a very dense staggered and offset internal and external fin pack in comparison to the other options and our customers have seen gains of 21hp & 33tq peak gains with over 50hp/tq gained in the mid range when switching from the OEM intercooler to our Race cooler.



The intake temperature actually drops through this 2-4 gear pull due to the efficiency of our internal/external fin pack configuration

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      10-30-2018, 10:19 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atlas View Post
Thanks for the recommendations. Does that mean the Wagner will have less turbo lag, but less outright HP?
It all depends on your mod list, driving habits and your area
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      10-31-2018, 07:40 AM   #72
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Mike, what's the most popular choice of IC for pure stage 2 guys?
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      10-31-2018, 10:38 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by switlikbob View Post
Mike, what's the most popular choice of IC for pure stage 2 guys?
VRSF race for customers running upgraded turbo
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      11-07-2018, 03:27 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com View Post
It all depends on your mod list, driving habits and your area
Mods would just be intake, downpipe, BM3 and charge pipes. Keeping the stock turbo. Say 90% street and 10% track, driving pretty aggressively.

Melbourne has pretty hot summers for about 2 months of the year where we get 30+ degrees Celsius weather.
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      11-07-2018, 05:00 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atlas View Post
Mods would just be intake, downpipe, BM3 and charge pipes. Keeping the stock turbo. Say 90% street and 10% track, driving pretty aggressively.

Melbourne has pretty hot summers for about 2 months of the year where we get 30+ degrees Celsius weather.
I recommend a 6" intercooler

Wagner EVO II Competition would be perfect for track use due to its weight and fast air temp recovery

CSF & VRSF 6" Race are great options as well to keep intake air temps in check
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      11-07-2018, 07:30 PM   #76
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Do the CSF and VRSF produce lower IATs than the Wagner?
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      11-07-2018, 07:38 PM   #77
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The VRSF Race produces lower intake temps than both the CSF and the Wagner.
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      11-07-2018, 07:45 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atlas View Post
Do the CSF and VRSF produce lower IATs than the Wagner?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiago@VRSF View Post
The VRSF Race produces lower intake temps than both the CSF and the Wagner.
Correct.


VRSF would be the best with lowering IAT during a pull
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      11-08-2018, 06:35 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiago@VRSF View Post
The VRSF Race produces lower intake temps than both the CSF and the Wagner.
Cheers thanks good to know. With the VRSF Race - how does it fare on the track? I understand it uses a bar and plate core which the OP says has temperature inertia.

Also, how is the throttle response, and is there much additional turbo lag?
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      11-08-2018, 04:25 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atlas View Post
Cheers thanks good to know. With the VRSF Race - how does it fare on the track? I understand it uses a bar and plate core which the OP says has temperature inertia.

Also, how is the throttle response, and is there much additional turbo lag?
In my own on-track and daily-driving testing (between the Wagner EVO 2 Comp and ATM) I haven't really seen any practical merit to the, "Bar and plate don't recover as fast as tube and fin." claims. Also, if the bar and plate IC is giving you better temperature performance anyways, why does it matter?

Throttle response and turbo lag will be more noticeable in daily driving than on the track.

I purchased my Wagner EVO 2 Comp from X-PH and it was a quick and easy experience.

Last edited by FaRKle!; 11-08-2018 at 04:31 PM..
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      11-08-2018, 06:10 PM   #81
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I'd still like to see come comparison numbers between the Wagner stage 2, VRSF race and Evolution Racewerke intercooler.

I never owned a Wagner product. I bought VRSF charge pipes from Mike, they arrived with chipped crinkle paint and pin holes in the welds. So I returned them and bought ER charge / TIC pipes which were better and nicer in every way, which I am more apt to buy another ER product over VRSF.

The Wagner EVO 1 intercooler looks to be exactly the same as the Active Autowerke intercooler I have installed on my car now. Those are my observations, and I hope none of the vendors here get upset or defensive (cuz I won't reply or involve myself in any forum drama).
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      11-08-2018, 06:28 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FaRKle! View Post
In my own on-track and daily-driving testing (between the Wagner EVO 2 Comp and ATM) I haven't really seen any practical merit to the, "Bar and plate don't recover as fast as tube and fin." claims. Also, if the bar and plate IC is giving you better temperature performance anyways, why does it matter?

Throttle response and turbo lag will be more noticeable in daily driving than on the track.

I purchased my Wagner EVO 2 Comp from X-PH and it was a quick and easy experience.




Quote:
Originally Posted by switlikbob View Post
I'd still like to see come comparison numbers between the Wagner stage 2, VRSF race and Evolution Racewerke intercooler.

I never owned a Wagner product. I bought VRSF charge pipes from Mike, they arrived with chipped crinkle paint and pin holes in the welds. So I returned them and bought ER charge / TIC pipes which were better and nicer in every way, which I am more apt to buy another ER product over VRSF.

The Wagner EVO 1 intercooler looks to be exactly the same as the Active Autowerke intercooler I have installed on my car now. Those are my observations, and I hope none of the vendors here get upset or defensive (cuz I won't reply or involve myself in any forum drama).
Nice

Wagner EVO I performance is the same size and design as the Active but it has a higher fin density

Wagner EVO I competition has the same size as Active but its a tube and fin design.
It weighs almost 40% lighter with better recovery and lower pressure air drop

As i always say, no intercooler is the best. It all depends on what the customer is looking for and their budget
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      11-09-2018, 05:44 PM   #83
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hi friends for turbo stock, charge ftp, inlet ftp, miltek 200cell downpipe, air filter afe pro dry s and mhd stage 2 + petrol 98oct sheell in europe, which intercooler put? vrsf race 6 "should we cut back?
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      11-09-2018, 05:56 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cristian135 View Post
hi friends for turbo stock, charge ftp, inlet ftp, miltek 200cell downpipe, air filter afe pro dry s and mhd stage 2 + petrol 98oct sheell in europe, which intercooler put? vrsf race 6 "should we cut back?
Hi,
VRSF 6" would be a very good option.
If it does not get too hot in Barcelona you can also go with VRSF High density as well
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      11-09-2018, 06:38 PM   #85
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thanks mike, with 6 "you have to cut plastic? in Barcelona we have 4-5 hot months, I do not do long runs, only 1/4 mile and some mountain road, but in the future maybe mount turbo tte460 ...
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      11-09-2018, 07:29 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com View Post
Hi,
VRSF 6" would be a very good option.
If it does not get too hot in Barcelona you can also go with VRSF High density as well
I'm curious. Why would you recommend the VRSF 6" if he has the stock turbo? I thought something like that is only needed for a bigger turbo.
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      11-09-2018, 07:35 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony1s View Post
I'm curious. Why would you recommend the VRSF 6" if he has the stock turbo? I thought something like that is only needed for a bigger turbo.
6" would be suitable to any stage 2+ application , stock turbo included.

Keep in mind Wagner EVO II, VRSF race, CSF & Evolution Racewerks are all 6" intercoolers and 90% of these FMIC are being used on stock turbo applications
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      11-09-2018, 07:41 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com View Post
6" would be suitable to any stage 2+ application , stock turbo included.

Keep in mind Wagner EVO II, VRSF race, CSF & Evolution Racewerks are all 6" intercoolers and 90% of these FMIC are being used on stock turbo applications
Ah, okay. I didn't know those others are also 6".
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