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M2 Technical Topics > N55 Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust / Bolt-ons / Tuning > THE ULTIMATE Intercooler Thread - What to Look For Before Buying an FMIC

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      03-30-2019, 12:35 PM   #287
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taskmaster View Post
No, Iím absolutely in grasp of what is going on here - I know of the thread on the Comparison test, and my understanding (from what I heard) was the test was carried out by Wagner, so there were some questions on how unbiased the results are.

But letís just be real here - there are plenty of things you can do to help with the throttle response and lag, nameley a turbo inlet. Most of us arenít racecar drivers, and the small differences in Ďturbo lagí and weight arenít going to be perceptible to most of us, however I think we all can appreciate a products that allows our cars to operate at their maximum level longer - and be more consistent.
I already have an inlet, Iíve done 40+ track days in my car, and do endurance races in other BMWs with BMW PC instructors and pros that run in World Challenge, so we can see which side I fall on regarding perceiving things.

Another example, Iím running the Dinan turbo bc thereís no lag. Are there bigger turbos that give more power. Sure, but then I have to deal with lag and the additional power from the other turbos isnít going to impact road track times that much bc fueling, cooling, and traction become more important variables.

Bottom line, there are different answers to this question, and itís the reason Mike started the thread in the first place.
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      03-30-2019, 12:37 PM   #288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PLF69 View Post
Anyone knows if the Do88 intercooler is bar and plate or tube and fin ? And the weight ?

They seem to make nice parts for the M2, if you had up everything its not too expensive to make your M2 track reliable and capable of sustaining long session in heat.
Looks like bar & plate. I’ve heard 25lbs.

Can’t say much about real world performance, but I’m installing their larger remote radiator soon, so I’ll comment on its fit/finish then.
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      03-30-2019, 12:43 PM   #289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZM2 View Post
I already have an inlet, Iíve done 40+ track days in my car, and do endurance races in other BMWs with BMW PC instructors and pros that run in World Challenge, so we can see which side I fall on regarding perceiving things.

Another example, Iím running the Dinan turbo bc thereís no lag. Are there bigger turbos that give more power. Sure, but then I have to deal with lag and the additional power from the other turbos isnít going to impact road track times that much bc fueling, cooling, and traction become more important variables.

Bottom line, there are different answers to this question, and itís the reason Mike started the thread in the first place.
So you agree that the Wagner isnít up to par. Iím glad we agree.

And if you have the Pure Inlet, would you mind posting logs?
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      03-30-2019, 12:47 PM   #290
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taskmaster View Post
So you agree that the Wagner isnít up to par. Iím glad we agree.

And if you have the Pure Inlet, would you mind posting logs?
Itís amazing you get any assistance/feedback from anyone here with such inferences.
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      03-30-2019, 12:54 PM   #291
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Originally Posted by ZM2 View Post
Itís amazing you get any assistance/feedback from anyone here with such inferences.
Iíll take that as a Ďmaybeí
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      03-30-2019, 02:02 PM   #292
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taskmaster View Post
Actually, street racers would prefer a shitty cooler that cools down quickly, and doesnít soak heat (especially important when youíre staging)

Iím geared more towards track days and consistentcy - which the Wagner and other brands donít offer. I also have a stick shift (boost drop between gears) and daily drive my car, so there is a lot of things working against Ďgrabbing the biggest coreí
That being said, itís clear one cooler is absolutely superior to another with only they SLIGHTEST of compromises, yet offering superior performance.

Why defend an inferior product?
The ATM test you linked shows that it has more heat soak than the Wagner though, which is due to it's bar and plate design...
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      03-30-2019, 02:46 PM   #293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony1s View Post
The ATM test you linked shows that it has more heat soak than the Wagner though, which is due to it's bar and plate design...
Thatís my point. Itís not a good option for people who would be staging and drag racing - however, that also depends on how many passes and runs they do.

I will never buy a Wagner, and nothing personal to the brand. But the hype it gets on these forums for underachieving, and itís cost - Iíll never understand
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      03-30-2019, 03:05 PM   #294
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taskmaster View Post
Thatís my point. Itís not a good option for people who would be staging and drag racing - however, that also depends on how many passes and runs they do.

I will never buy a Wagner, and nothing personal to the brand. But the hype it gets on these forums for underachieving, and itís cost - Iíll never understand
Your point was that ATM is objectively better and another point you made was that it doesn't have heat soak...
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      03-30-2019, 03:18 PM   #295
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony1s View Post
Your point was that ATM is objectively better and another point you made was that it doesn't have heat soak...

My point is that you're objectively an idiot.
Actually, that’s the exact opposite. The smaller lighter design of the Wagner would be better otption for drag racers because it disapates heat faster, but has a lower thermal capacity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taskmaster View Post
Actually, street racers would prefer a shitty cooler that cools down quickly, and doesn’t soak heat (especially important when you’re staging)
(My quote, unmodified because you clearly didn’t read it before)

Something like the Wagner would be BETTER for street racers for that particular reason, as I pointed out before. I can clearly see reading isn’t your strong point, but I’m happy to hold your hand and spoon feed facts to you, as this is clearly something you can’t gasp on you’re.


The Wagner is only good for a few short pulls - which is why I pointed out it’s not in the same class of intercooler as more track oriented options like the VSFR, ATM and ER.

Last edited by Taskmaster; 03-30-2019 at 03:25 PM..
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      03-30-2019, 04:14 PM   #296
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taskmaster View Post
Actually, thatís the exact opposite. The smaller lighter design of the Wagner would be better otption for drag racers because it disapates heat faster, but has a lower thermal capacity.



(My quote, unmodified because you clearly didnít read it before)

Something like the Wagner would be BETTER for street racers for that particular reason, as I pointed out before. I can clearly see reading isnít your strong point, but Iím happy to hold your hand and spoon feed facts to you, as this is clearly something you canít gasp on youíre.


The Wagner is only good for a few short pulls - which is why I pointed out itís not in the same class of intercooler as more track oriented options like the VSFR, ATM and ER.
You keep going back and forth on everything you claim when I point out your contradictions and inaccuracies. Like I said from the beginning, it's clear you just like getting people riled up. I engaged for a bit, because I don't want others to be persuaded by wrong information, but I think you've done enough for your credibility that I don't have to involve myself anymore.
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      04-03-2019, 12:54 AM   #297
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We now carry the new VRSF 5" Competition intercooler ... Its meant for a performance level in between the standard 5" and the 6" Race
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      04-03-2019, 01:27 AM   #298
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com View Post
We now carry the new VRSF 5" Competition intercooler ... Its meant for a performance level in between the standard 5" and the 6" Race
Very nice!

I also noticed VRSF improved their website recently which is great! Their old website imo was really difficult to navigate and search for stuff.
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      04-03-2019, 01:28 AM   #299
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F87source View Post
Very nice!

I also noticed VRSF improved their website recently which is great! Their old website imo was really difficult to navigate and search for stuff.
We're launching our new website soon as well
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      04-03-2019, 03:23 AM   #300
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We're launching our new website soon as well
Very nice! I hope it's mobile friendly too.
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      04-03-2019, 06:23 AM   #301
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com View Post
We now carry the new VRSF 5" Competition intercooler ... Its meant for a performance level in between the standard 5" and the 6" Race
Do you know the main difference with the performance hd one and the weight ?

thank you
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      04-03-2019, 12:34 PM   #302
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F87source View Post
Very nice! I hope it's mobile friendly too.
Yes sir!

Quote:
Originally Posted by PLF69 View Post
Do you know the main difference with the performance hd one and the weight ?

thank you
I believe the competition has a higher fin density, VRSF can confirm that
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      05-21-2019, 10:34 AM   #303
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Are 6" IC fits in F20 M135i? Do I have to cut anything? And can you ship to China these days...
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      05-25-2019, 03:55 AM   #304
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I read about the Swedish do88 FMIC and, if I understand the text correctly, it has an increase in pressure of 18 %.

My noob question is then if this would eliminate any risk of increased turbo lag even on a stock car?
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      05-26-2019, 03:49 PM   #305
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fedorov View Post
I read about the Swedish do88 FMIC and, if I understand the text correctly, it has an increase in pressure of 18 %.

My noob question is then if this would eliminate any risk of increased turbo lag even on a stock car?
Do88 claim that the pressure drop characteristics mean that it will flow better than stock and make no difference to lag.

I'm no expert, but to my mind, with the volume increase on the do88 being large ( its a well engineered bit of kit) the turbo is going to have to push alot more air to get up to pressure, so personally I can't see how it won't introduce lag on a stock car - I would expect a tune was needed.
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      05-27-2019, 06:19 PM   #306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony1s View Post
The Wagner is a tube and fin. Less thermal mass to dissipate heat. Not really fair to compare to a bar and plate as they're significantly heavier... of course their gonna be cooler. Benefit is in weight savings for Wagner. And it does a very, very good job at cooling comparatively for what it is.

But I do agree any 5" intercooler isn't worth it.
I bought and installed the Wagner Competition 1 with ER downpipe from Mike...great price and customer service. I use the car mostly for track, road courses , and my Awron gauge kept posting insane IAT numbers as the laps and temps increased. I just spent 2 days at Road Atlanta in 95+ degree heat and I am very pleased with this upgrade. I ran virtually the same times all day regardless of temperatures. Don't get me wrong, the IAT were way over ambient air but much better than stock and quicker to cool down. The key for me was the easy fit, no turbo lag and improved performance. I know there are bigger models, but the risk of lag was more important that the hypothetical gain on a non FBO car.
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      06-04-2019, 01:18 AM   #307
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twt View Post
I bought and installed the Wagner Competition 1 with ER downpipe from Mike...great price and customer service. I use the car mostly for track, road courses , and my Awron gauge kept posting insane IAT numbers as the laps and temps increased. I just spent 2 days at Road Atlanta in 95+ degree heat and I am very pleased with this upgrade. I ran virtually the same times all day regardless of temperatures. Don't get me wrong, the IAT were way over ambient air but much better than stock and quicker to cool down. The key for me was the easy fit, no turbo lag and improved performance. I know there are bigger models, but the risk of lag was more important that the hypothetical gain on a non FBO car.
Congrats
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      06-07-2019, 04:21 PM   #308
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Why is the VRSF intercooler so much cheaper than the others? It seems to have good reviews. Why would I want the Wagner EVO 2 Competition or Active Auto Works FMIC instead?
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