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      02-24-2016, 01:10 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hops128i View Post
and
"One should, for example, be able to see that things are hopeless about having a soft M car and yet be determined to make it a toyota avalon."
So.. you think this M is soft? Odd. As for the Avalon bit, if you wish to insult people with hyperbole, knock yourself out. Would be nice to see something more interesting but I suppose my expectations are too high.

In any case, hopefully most, if not all, realize that the db level has absolutely nothing to do with how soft the car is. The level of a M3 or 911 would be a bit loud but acceptable. You get up to 72db in only a few really cheap cars, some convertibles, and dedicated track machines. For reference that's a bit louder than a loud restaurant where you have to raise your voice to talk to the person across the table. And that's just at 70mph cruise. Imagine during acceleration or over bad roads. Every single day. Going to get really old really fast not being able to carry on a conversation without yelling.

Last edited by Spook410; 02-24-2016 at 01:28 AM..
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      02-24-2016, 01:34 AM   #46
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It's within .4 decibels of a 2008 M3. I doubt many of us could detect the difference of .4 decibels on a freeway.

If some want to call that a "glaring defect", fine. I don't. I'm not going to spend hours cruising at freeway speeds in this thing anyway. I'm going to running up and down the gears as much as possible, and smiling my ass off.
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      02-24-2016, 02:28 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spook410 View Post
Well some of you get your wish. 72db at 70mph put's the M2 right there with favorites like the V6 Ford Mustang and Fiat 500 Abarth. Very, very few cars on the market are that loud. It may make the car unsuitable as a daily driver for many of us. Certainly a poor choice for anything stretching into hours. The response to this news reminds me of the Consumer Reports reviews of Cadillacs in the 80's: They were the worst in build quality and reliability (for the analogy challenged, noise would be the analog here) and yet had top flight 'customer satisfaction'. Geezers loved their caddies. I'm sure those who can apply youthful exuberance to overlook what I consider a glaring flaw will be very happy with this car. As for me.. back to looking a base Cayman's.

Note: safe operating threshold on Space Station is 70db

Is that threshold of 70db constant over months with no relief? That's a little different than short bursts of 71db on your way to the grocery store.
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      02-24-2016, 02:33 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spook410 View Post
So.. you think this M is soft? Odd. As for the Avalon bit, if you wish to insult people with hyperbole, knock yourself out. Would be nice to see something more interesting but I suppose my expectations are too high.

In any case, hopefully most, if not all, realize that the db level has absolutely nothing to do with how soft the car is. The level of a M3 or 911 would be a bit loud but acceptable. You get up to 72db in only a few really cheap cars, some convertibles, and dedicated track machines. For reference that's a bit louder than a loud restaurant where you have to raise your voice to talk to the person across the table. And that's just at 70mph cruise. Imagine during acceleration or over bad roads. Every single day. Going to get really old really fast not being able to carry on a conversation without yelling.
It's odd but that's not my experience in my 1M. I've never had to yell. I think your being sensational maybe?
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      02-24-2016, 03:03 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Transfer View Post
I'm pretty sure there are plenty of "daily drivers" out there that have far less sound damping material than an M2 and those owners seem to get to work just fine without their ears bleeding every morning. Ever ridden in a Honda Fit? You'd swear the doors were made of aluminum foil.
To keep things factual, a Honda Fit is 70.5 at 70 mph. For those who have long commutes, the M2 will be a noisy car.

One of the major complaints of the older Nissan GTR's was road noise, those were between 71-77 decibels (years 2009-2013) at 70 mph and this was one of the noisiest cars around. Major culprit for this was the stock run flat tires. Swap out tires with Michelin PSS and the ride quieted down a lot.

M2 comes stock with the MPSS, so switching tires won't help this issue. Looks like putting sound deadening back in may be the only answer for those seeking a quieter ride.
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      02-24-2016, 03:38 AM   #50
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2014 Cayman S tested at 77 @ 70 mph. I drive a 2010 Mazda 3 2.5L daily and it tested at 72 @ 70. It's not a quiet car but it is quieter than the Z4M overall and I don't think most people who care about performance are going to care that much. Not great for conference calls, that's about it.
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      02-24-2016, 08:14 AM   #51
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I will solve this once my 3.5" straight pipe is finished.

Then, everyone will just be dead from sound, instead.
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      02-24-2016, 08:25 AM   #52
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M235i sound insulation:
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      02-24-2016, 10:11 AM   #53
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Does anyone know for sure if cruising in sport mode vs comfort mode (or whatever it's called) would make a difference. Was the 72db measured with the sport valve opened in the exhaust?

I test drove a few BMWs and Audis in January, plus one WRX. The WRX was really loud and had a pretty miserable ride in my opinion. It was just too buzzy and the SA admitted to installing sound deadening material in his WRX. According to C/D it's actually quieter than the M2.
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      02-24-2016, 10:17 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3tekcorps View Post
The WRX was really loud and had a pretty miserable ride in my opinion. It was just too buzzy and the SA admitted to installing sound deadening material in his WRX. According to C/D it's actually quieter than the M2.
That part I find hard to believe. The WRX has one of the worst rides/interior sound in a production car.


Hopefully they are wrong. Again, all subjective.
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      02-24-2016, 10:26 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verbiage View Post
That part I find hard to believe. The WRX has one of the worst rides/interior sound in a production car.


Hopefully they are wrong. Again, all subjective.
Well something seems off here. I drove that WRX 1 mile down the road and it was enough after being in the S3 and M235 the day before. It felt like a tin can compared to the German sports sedans.

Yet it tests out quieter than the M2?? The thing is the 1M I drove didn't seem loud to me. Decibels are a logarithmic measurement and a few can make a big difference.

Makes me think they tested the M2 in Sport Mode. It shouldn't be louder than a WRX.

Here's the test sheet on the WRX:

http://media.caranddriver.com/files/...x-mar-2014.pdf


Edit: Just read the M2 spec sheet again and it does look like it's been tested in sport mode. I'm assuming they would run the whole test in one mode. Would that make a big difference in cabin noise at 70?

Last edited by 3tekcorps; 02-24-2016 at 10:37 AM..
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      02-24-2016, 10:37 AM   #56
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I have actually read that review as well, as an STi Limited/Golf R/Focus RS were solid contenders for my next car before the M2 became a reality.

Even in sport mode, I have not heard of any other editors critique the cabin sound, even with the synthesized cabin noise.
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      02-24-2016, 10:43 AM   #57
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Will I have to scream to the person next to me when I'm going 70 mph? If it's not horrendous I don't care.
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      02-24-2016, 10:47 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adem1534 View Post
Will I have to scream to the person next to me when I'm going 70 mph? If it's not horrendous I don't care.
Pretty sure you won't have to do that. Unless your downpipe is open.
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      02-24-2016, 10:49 AM   #59
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I owned a 2010 WRX with STI exhaust so a little louder than stock. The car was very cheap inside but noise level was not excessive on the freeway and there was no drone. If the M2 is similar it will be fine. But don't expect to listen to classical music except maybe the William Tell Overture.
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      02-24-2016, 11:02 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adem1534 View Post
Will I have to scream to the person next to me when I'm going 70 mph? If it's not horrendous I don't care.
Depends of the position of her head.
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      02-24-2016, 11:18 AM   #61
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Depends of the position of her head.
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      02-24-2016, 11:34 AM   #62
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Any idea what highway decibels was for a '11 BMW 135i M-Sport?

If the M2 is close to that, I'd be pretty happy cause I really thought my 135 had great road manners.
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      02-24-2016, 12:42 PM   #63
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Comfort vs sport makes a big difference in noise at virtually all speeds and gears in my M235i.
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      02-24-2016, 02:09 PM   #64
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Guys, just to keep things in perspective, a 3 db difference in sound is classified as "barely perceptible". My stereo at home has a volume knob with decibels and I can say that I need to turn the knob at least a good 5-6 db for the sound to be clearly louder.

Technically, a sound that is 3 db louder than another sound has 2x more "energy" (amplitude), but because of the way our ears perceive sounds (psycho-acoustics), a doubling of the energy results in a sound that is perceived as barely louder:

- Imperceptible Change 1dB
- Barely Perceptible Change 3dB
- Clearly Noticeable Change 5dB
- About Twice as Loud 10dB

So, C&D measured the BMW M2's SPL@70 mpg as 72 db. For comparison:

- BMW M2: 72 db
- BMW 340i: 70 db
- MB E350 (2014): 68 db

(These figures are all from C&D's instrument tests.)

So, the M2 is "barely louder" than a 340i, and the 340 itself is "barely louder" than a luxo-barge E350. Based on this, it seems to be that we don't need to be too concerned that the M2 will be a loud car on the highway.
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      02-25-2016, 05:01 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swagon View Post
... and to answer OP's question, we don't know yet where the sound deadeing was removed. I guess somewhere between the engine and cabin.
What we know is from the M2 Technical Training Manual (page 15):

3.3. Interior
Various insulation materials were omitted in the area of the interior in order to reduce weight. As a result of this omission of insulating material, it was possible to achieve a weight saving of approx. 11 kg / 24 lbs compared with the F22.
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      02-25-2016, 08:59 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ried View Post
What we know is from the M2 Technical Training Manual (page 15):

3.3. Interior
Various insulation materials were omitted in the area of the interior in order to reduce weight. As a result of this omission of insulating material, it was possible to achieve a weight saving of approx. 11 kg / 24 lbs compared with the F22.
Yes, I have read that.
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