BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
BMW M2 Forum > BMW M2 Discussions > Which would you choose...and why?

View Poll Results: Which would you choose?
2020 BMW F87 M2 CS (6MT) 17 19.32%
2020 Porsche 718 GT4 (6MT) 60 68.18%
Neither. Both are overpriced for what you get 11 12.50%
Voters: 88. You may not vote on this poll

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      01-05-2020, 04:06 PM   #45
Hegge
First Lieutenant
155
Rep
331
Posts

Drives: 2019 BMW M2 Competition
Join Date: May 2015
Location: PA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ///AVM View Post
OP indicates he has never even driven a Porsche. . . how in the world is GT4 even a consideration at this point?

///AVM
This is a great point. Original poster needs to test drive a 718 Cayman. Within 5 minutes, he would know what he thinks of the brand. Also, the Porsche infotainment system, etc.
Appreciate 1
F87_LCI1728.00

      01-05-2020, 04:36 PM   #46
pruettfan
Brigadier General
1533
Rep
3,415
Posts

Drives: 2017 M2, LBB, DCT, Exec
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Oro Valley, AZ

iTrader: (0)

I have an OG M2 and a 718 Cayman S. I love both and regularly track both. I can tell you that the mid engine platform of the Cayman is far ahead of the M2. That won't be overcome by a bunch of carbon fiber and new wheels. The Cayman does everything quite a bit better than the M2 does in the OG version and based upon my interactions with M2 Comps I can say it also outperforms them also. I just don't see the CS doing much better.

Of course most won't take these cars to the track and unless you do you cannot see the performance differences really.

I am waiting for the GT4 with the PDK which will apparently appear late this year. If that car is as great as I suspect both of my cars may be traded in for one.
Appreciate 0
      01-05-2020, 04:46 PM   #47
pruettfan
Brigadier General
1533
Rep
3,415
Posts

Drives: 2017 M2, LBB, DCT, Exec
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Oro Valley, AZ

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanG View Post
I would get the M2CS. 80 more horsepower will make the car handle completely different than your M2. Plus the car is going to be quite rare. I see porches every day but almost never see an M2.
Please explain how having 80 more horsepower changes the handing completely.
Appreciate 0
      01-05-2020, 04:48 PM   #48
pruettfan
Brigadier General
1533
Rep
3,415
Posts

Drives: 2017 M2, LBB, DCT, Exec
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Oro Valley, AZ

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by chief1richard View Post
I would opt for a 2015-2106 GT4 to bring it closer closer to price of M2C. Thjere are plenty of them out there that apparently only sit in peoples garages for an occasional Sunday drive.
Do a search of GT4 shock tower failures, I was all about that generation of GT4 till I read about transmission failures and shock tower failures. Porsche will cover the transmission under warranty but won't touch the shock tower issue which is a 24k repair.
Appreciate 2
      01-05-2020, 04:52 PM   #49
medphysdave
Captain
United_States
715
Rep
944
Posts

Drives: M2 CS waiting list
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Charlotte, NC

iTrader: (0)

In my opinion the Hockenheim numbers say a lot.

74. Porsche Cayman GT4 (718) Uwe Sener 1:55.00
75. Honda NSX (Mk II) unknown 1:55.30
76. Corvette Grand Sport Uwe Sener 1:55.30
77. Mercedes-Benz AMG GT S Uwe Sener 1:55.40
78. BMW M5 Competition (F90) Uwe Sener 1:55.60
79. BMW M2 CS (F87) Uwe Sener 1:55.80
80. KTM X-Bow R Horst von Saurma 1:56.00
81. Porsche 718 Cayman GTS Uwe Sener 1:56.00
82. Porsche 911 GT3 (997) unknown 1:56.41
83. BMW M850i (G15) Uwe Sener 1:56.60
84. Porsche 911 Carrera GTS unknown 1:56.90
85. Lamborghini Urus Uwe Sener 1:57.10
86. Porsche Cayman GT4 (981) unknown 1:57.40
87. Porsche 911 GT3 RS (997) unknown 1:57.44
88. Porsche 718 Boxster GTS Uwe Sener 1:57.70
89. Chevrolet Corvette Z06 (C6) unknown 1:57.90
90. Aston Martin Vantage Uwe Sener 1:57.90
91. BMW M2 Competition (F87) Uwe Sener 1:57.90


If the reviews of the M2CS don't rave about how it "feels" different, then it's likely not worth the purchase. But it does appear to be playing in a slightly higher league than the C. T will be interesting to see the official Nurbergring numbers to see if it holds true all around.

Last edited by medphysdave; 01-05-2020 at 05:00 PM..
Appreciate 0
      01-05-2020, 05:19 PM   #50
pruettfan
Brigadier General
1533
Rep
3,415
Posts

Drives: 2017 M2, LBB, DCT, Exec
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Oro Valley, AZ

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by medphysdave View Post
In my opinion the Hockenheim numbers say a lot.

74. Porsche Cayman GT4 (718) Uwe Sener 1:55.00
75. Honda NSX (Mk II) unknown 1:55.30
76. Corvette Grand Sport Uwe Sener 1:55.30
77. Mercedes-Benz AMG GT S Uwe Sener 1:55.40
78. BMW M5 Competition (F90) Uwe Sener 1:55.60
79. BMW M2 CS (F87) Uwe Sener 1:55.80
80. KTM X-Bow R Horst von Saurma 1:56.00
81. Porsche 718 Cayman GTS Uwe Sener 1:56.00
82. Porsche 911 GT3 (997) unknown 1:56.41
83. BMW M850i (G15) Uwe Sener 1:56.60
84. Porsche 911 Carrera GTS unknown 1:56.90
85. Lamborghini Urus Uwe Sener 1:57.10
86. Porsche Cayman GT4 (981) unknown 1:57.40
87. Porsche 911 GT3 RS (997) unknown 1:57.44
88. Porsche 718 Boxster GTS Uwe Sener 1:57.70
89. Chevrolet Corvette Z06 (C6) unknown 1:57.90
90. Aston Martin Vantage Uwe Sener 1:57.90
91. BMW M2 Competition (F87) Uwe Sener 1:57.90


If the reviews of the M2CS don't rave about how it "feels" different, then it's likely not worth the purchase. But it does appear to be playing in a slightly higher league than the C. T will be interesting to see the official Nurbergring numbers to see if it holds true all around.

Lap time discussions are always interesting because the driver is the weak link so unless it is same driver, same track, weather etc, lap times don't mean a ton. Who cares what lap time some other guy can do in the car you want to buy or own. The only lap time that matters to me is the lap time I can set.
Appreciate 2
qnet538.50

      01-05-2020, 05:53 PM   #51
cptobvious
Captain
cptobvious's Avatar
United_States
2001
Rep
724
Posts

Drives: M2C HS DCT
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: San Diego, CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by akkando View Post
You would have to know sales if the turbo 4 to know if it worked out for Porsche or not.

Yes, you are correct.

http://carsalesbase.com/us-car-sales...orsche-cayman/

http://carsalesbase.com/us-car-sales...e/porsche-911/

Anecdotally, the 718 Cayman & Boxster haven't sold very well at all. In fact, according to the Internet and enthusiast forums, the 718 have sold exactly 3 cars worldwide because of that GOD-AWFUL-SUBARU-ENGINE!!!

But, sales figures that you can find online don't seem to suggest that is the case. There is some stagnation in sales numbers, but then you have to ask "why?"

The Internet will tell you that it's because of that GOD-AWFUL-SUBARU-ENGINE!!! But, think about the typical car buyer who walks onto a car lot... has he/she done 300 hours of research? Does he know or care about 4 banger versus 6? It's all we talk about, because we're all enthusiasts. But, we probably represent 1% of the population. As I'd mentioned before, Product Managers tend to ignore the vast majority of what "enthusiasts" have to say, because a) all they do is complain about random stupid s***, and b) they're an incredibly vocal / annoying community, but they're tiny, and don't represent much in the way of potential revenue.

You can see from the second link, the sales figures for the 911, that there's some plateau'ing going on as well. So, why have 911 sales plateau'ed? It must be because of that GOD-AWFUL-SUBARU-ENGINE!!!

Or... consumers are moving toward cross-overs and SUVs. 1% of the buyer population knows / cares about the 4 versus 6 thing. 50% of the buyer population is moving toward cross-overs and SUVs. I suspect that's why Cayman and Boxster sales are down.

And, if Cayman & Boxster sales were truly down because of the 4 versus 6 thing, Porsche would reintroduce an NA6 across all trims, wouldn't they? What does it say that they're only reintroducing the NA6 to a trim that is going to sit ABOVE the current GTS? That would seem to indicate the re-introduction is about price discrimination.

(Sorry for the long-winded post. I do a lot of this sort of stuff in my real life job. Most of the time for software companies. So, when we gouge the s*** out of you and steal every single penny you have so that you can use our software, these are the techniques I teach to these Fortune 100 software companies.)
Appreciate 1
Poochie3629.50

      01-06-2020, 01:16 PM   #52
F87_LCI
Lieutenant Colonel
F87_LCI's Avatar
1728
Rep
1,710
Posts

Drives: 2018 LBB F87
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: North

iTrader: (1)

Wow. A lot of feedback here and most of it constructive/positive, which is nice to see...and much appreciated, so thank you.

Of course I would not be making a $100K(+) buying decision based on NEVER driving same (if available) or similar vehicles...that would be silly. I have an appointment to test drive a 718 GTS, and a 981GTS as well as potentially a new 992 if we can squeeze it in. As mentioned, I have my OG and I have driven the M2C so I feel I have a pretty good grasp of what the CS brings to the table...and let's face it, I am not by any means a professional driver, so a .8 of a second lap time diff is not going to make or break the decision for me as I would never be in that range anyway, lol.

I originally put this question out there to get opinions as to where like minded individuals as myself would land if they were put into the same situation and had to make this decision. Maybe I should have put that into my original post, but i thought that was a bit obvious.

I simply wanted to get some additional insights and even some links (thank you for those) to info that I might not find on my own as well as hear some personal experiences that you won't necessarily find on the internet if you don't ask the question.

I still have more research to do and other factors to consider before I make my decision. Again, thanks to those who have (and will continue to provide) constructive feedback.
Appreciate 1
cptobvious2001.00

      01-06-2020, 02:15 PM   #53
magha
Lieutenant
magha's Avatar
78
Rep
494
Posts

Drives: '18 M2 AW 6 spd
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Toronto

iTrader: (1)

If it's a car for
YOU
Occasional tracking
Never owned a Porsche

I'd say go with the cayman !! Despite my love for the M2CS I see no real point in you upgrading to that unless ur a huuuge bmw fan. I've seen ur car and it's close enough to a CS already!

Having said that let me know when you part out that OG

Best of luck with your choice! Gotta love first world problems lol
__________________

18 M2 6 Spd AW - VRSF DP / CP & Race FMIC, ER TIC & GFB DV+ with BM3 Stage 2
Retired 09 135 JB4 G5 ISO w/BEF, N54 Tuning Performance DPs, BMS DCI, ER Charge Pipe
Appreciate 1
F87_LCI1728.00

      01-06-2020, 02:19 PM   #54
isjoey
First Lieutenant
isjoey's Avatar
217
Rep
333
Posts

Drives: M2, 335is , CBR100RR
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Ashburn, VA

iTrader: (0)

Given you don't know this answer for yourself. Since you have an M2 CS allocation, I would order one fully loaded (ie CS brakes and all). Will more than likely be your only shot. You would have no problem selling it if you one day decided to do so.

Both cars are pretty much in the same neighborhood from a performance perspective, and certainly are for 99% of their owners. Everything else comes down to your personal preferences and cost, basically.
__________________
BMW CCA and PCA HPDE Instructor
Appreciate 1
F87_LCI1728.00

      01-06-2020, 02:24 PM   #55
RocketTR
Private First Class
RocketTR's Avatar
96
Rep
125
Posts

Drives: Audi
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: NJ

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by cptobvious View Post

For example, I personally love the turbo-4 and prefer it to NA6. So, my willingness to pay a premium for the NA6 is $0. However, clearly, there's an enthusiast / "purist" segment with a willingness to pay premium of > $20k. So, by using price discrimination, Porsche extracts my maximum willingness to pay by offering me a turbo-4 Cayman at $60k and they extract $80k from the purist by offering the purist a NA6.
I agree with this. I've driven the turbo-4 718 and it's an excellent car. People complain mostly because it doesn't have the same sound as the naturally aspirated 6-cylinder engine, but to me the 4-cylinder sounds really good. Plus the low end torque is simply fantastic. If I were buying one tomorrow, I'd definitely get a manual transmission turbo 4 cylinder 718.
Appreciate 2
      01-06-2020, 02:39 PM   #56
AlpsRider
Colonel
AlpsRider's Avatar
1639
Rep
2,563
Posts

Drives: M2 Competition, LBB, 6MT
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Earth

iTrader: (0)

I'm sure that the Cayman 718 is a well balanced track tool. Unfortunately that 4 banger sounds like an old Beetle from inside the car. I test drove one when I owned my M235i. To me the 718 suffered turbo lag and low torque compared to my M235i. Street driving is just more fun with more torque.

The above lower lap times if the CS IMO is mostly due to the Cup2 tires and the tune. I'd like to see an M2C with Cup2 tires and a CS tune in that mix. I bet it would be neck and neck with the M2CS.
Appreciate 0
      01-06-2020, 03:04 PM   #57
Conissah
Lieutenant
Conissah's Avatar
606
Rep
550
Posts

Drives: 2020 BMW M2C
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Charlotte, NC

iTrader: (0)

Obvious bias here, as I own an M2C. The car is incredibly fun to drive, and puts a huge smile on my face every time. Compared to the GT4, it's MUCH more practical, but I'm unsure if you're considering practicality. Objectively speaking, the M2 will respond to mods MUCH better than the Pcar, simply due to the turbos. Member here made 580whp with E85 and an exhaust, I don't think that number is even approachable from the GT4... Also, unless they switched the tranny, AFAIK, the GT4 has incredibly long gears, making it less "fun" on the street than other cars. Never driven a GT4, but just going on what I have heard.

Ultimately, I would try and drive a car similar to both, and see how they make you feel. The CS is going to be MUCH more rare than the GT4, but even with that considered, GT4's hold their value incredibly well. I don't imagine that the CS will depreciate at the same rate of the OG M2 and the M2C, but I personally feel that will depreciate quicker than the GT4. Potential food for thought, if resale value is being considered.

Also, FR compared MR, which do you like better?
Appreciate 0
      01-06-2020, 03:38 PM   #58
larry.beck
Second Lieutenant
larry.beck's Avatar
United_States
164
Rep
260
Posts

Drives: 2018 M2
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Seattle

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2018 BMW M2  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///AVM View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by F87_LCI View Post
I have never owned (or driven for that matter) a Porsche
OP indicates he has never even driven a Porsche. . . how in the world is GT4 even a consideration at this point?

///AVM
In the process of considering the new car selection that produced my M2 I had never driven a BMW either. Doesn't mean I shouldn't feel up to posting an opinion poll on a BMW forum.

Your point is valid. Driving will be an important element of the decision making process. But lots of folks also buy cars before production begins. Are they all idiots? Apparently you would say yes, but that doesn't mean all those other people are wrong. They're just not right FOR YOU. Please... opinions are not fact. Stop thinking your opinion is.
__________________
///M2 - 2018 LBB DCT
Appreciate 3
cptobvious2001.00
F87_LCI1728.00
qnet538.50

      01-06-2020, 05:32 PM   #59
F87_LCI
Lieutenant Colonel
F87_LCI's Avatar
1728
Rep
1,710
Posts

Drives: 2018 LBB F87
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: North

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by medphysdave View Post
OP, add a polling option for buy CS now and GT4 later.
Anyone know how to edit a poll?

Quote:
Originally Posted by magha View Post
... let me know when you part out that OG
I have had a few requests on this, lol. If I was to go with the CS, there are a number of things that could be transferred from the OG like the cage and most of the interior CF items. I am assuming the dash is the same as the LCI and forward, so items like the AWRON gauge can be used in the CS? Of course the one big interior item that I wouldn't move over would be the one-off M Sport seats so those would be up for grabs!! Iíll put you down for the set 😉

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hegge View Post
This is a great point. Original poster needs to test drive a 718 Cayman. Within 5 minutes, he would know what he thinks of the brand. Also, the Porsche infotainment system, etc.
This is in the works...Just waiting for a day with dry roads and temps north of 5 degrees (C) ... my main concern about the 718 Cayman is that the engine is completely different (V4T vs. V6NA)...trying to track down a 981 GT4 that I can take for a spin, but they are hard to find.
Appreciate 0
      01-06-2020, 10:49 PM   #60
goku7
Second Lieutenant
goku7's Avatar
United_States
130
Rep
220
Posts

Drives: 2020 BMW M2C
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Bay Area, CA

iTrader: (0)

If u already have a m2, why buy the same toy again but with some more oomph and fancy bits. Gt4 is the obv choice.
Appreciate 2
cptobvious2001.00
F87_LCI1728.00

      01-06-2020, 11:06 PM   #61
///AVM
Private First Class
///AVM's Avatar
152
Rep
172
Posts

Drives: 718 Cayman GTS
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: U.S.A.

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by goku7 View Post
If u already have a m2, why buy the same toy again but with some more oomph and fancy bits. Gt4 is the obv choice.
It might be obvious given the two options presented. However, having actually driven 981 GT4 and 718 GTS options, it was pretty obvious the GTS was the choice.

///AVM
Appreciate 2
cptobvious2001.00
andrewc896706.00

      01-06-2020, 11:35 PM   #62
cptobvious
Captain
cptobvious's Avatar
United_States
2001
Rep
724
Posts

Drives: M2C HS DCT
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: San Diego, CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ///AVM View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by goku7 View Post
If u already have a m2, why buy the same toy again but with some more oomph and fancy bits. Gt4 is the obv choice.
It might be obvious given the two options presented. However, having actually driven 981 GT4 and 718 GTS options, it was pretty obvious the GTS was the choice.

///AVM
I love a contrarian viewpoint!

Every car forum you go to, whether Bimmerpost or Rennlist, EVERYONE talks endlessly about how amazing the GT4 is. It's manual transmission! It's NA6!

But, honestly, I look at those 2 things and they're huge minuses for me. I get it. To be a purist and to get your "cool" card, you HAVE to goo over the manual transmission and you have to drone on and on about the "sonorous, melodious, orgasmic symphony of the 6."

But, gimme a break! To rev out the engine, to get any torque whatsoever, you'll have to get up to "lose your license speed," on public roads. So, effectively, the ONLY time you can enjoy the car is if you're on the freeway going 80 mph in 2nd gear. Or on the track. Otherwise, you have to putter around town sluggishly because the car HAS NO LOW END TORQUE!

Just like you, good sir, I would take the 718 GTS over the GT4 8 days a week!!!
Appreciate 2
///AVM151.50
andrewc896706.00

      01-06-2020, 11:45 PM   #63
andrewc89
Colonel
andrewc89's Avatar
United_States
6706
Rep
2,902
Posts

Drives: 2017 M2 | 2015 328dx
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: New Jersey

iTrader: (5)

Garage List
2017 M2  [5.00]
2015 328d xDrive  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by cptobvious View Post
you have to putter around town sluggishly because the car HAS NO LOW END TORQUE!
+1

This is definitely the first thing I would notice and immediately hate, more so coming from the OG which has all of that amazing usable bottom end power.
Appreciate 2
cptobvious2001.00
bmwm2nyc225.00

      01-07-2020, 01:23 AM   #64
goku7
Second Lieutenant
goku7's Avatar
United_States
130
Rep
220
Posts

Drives: 2020 BMW M2C
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Bay Area, CA

iTrader: (0)

But to punter around town OP already has the OG m2. The gt4 will be a canyon carver or a track weapon. The 718 is more or less same level of car as the m2 is my take. The gt4 is more hardcore car than the m2 so it makes sense to have both in the stable
Appreciate 1
bobert792.00

      01-07-2020, 09:16 AM   #65
Conissah
Lieutenant
Conissah's Avatar
606
Rep
550
Posts

Drives: 2020 BMW M2C
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Charlotte, NC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by goku7 View Post
But to punter around town OP already has the OG m2. The gt4 will be a canyon carver or a track weapon. The 718 is more or less same level of car as the m2 is my take. The gt4 is more hardcore car than the m2 so it makes sense to have both in the stable
He already said he has a DD and won't be keeping his current M2.
Appreciate 2
F87_LCI1728.00
andrewc896706.00

Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:16 AM.




m2
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST