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      03-25-2019, 10:46 AM   #1
nioh_lbbm2
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My Cali M2 BM3 ACN91 experience

Hi guys,

Some folks wanted me to create a thread on my journey thus far with a tuned FBO M2 in California pump gas.

Originally I was planning to hop immediately on to BM3's Stage 2 91 Oct tune after having just installed a FMIC and charge pipes. I already had a Fabspeed 200 cell sport cat and Remus exhaust.

The tune initially felt great but I was comparing directly to stock. The difference in power and delivery was immediately noticeable but of course I was curious about my engine's health and did some logging with the help of SeanWRT :
Stage 2 91 oct:
http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5c8415e1c090c6197fc21b88

Looks like timings were all over the place. Now granted I am a complete newbie to reading these logs so I relied on Sean's guidance.

Went back down to Stage 1 91:
1. http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5c854cbfc090c6197fc21e2b
2. http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5c854dacc090c6197fc21e2d
3. http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5c854e83c090c6197fc21e35

Looking better but still not quite right.
Did some researching I re-read Nezil mega thread on his similar journey but he had access to race gas that I did not. There's only 1 station in San Diego near me that offers race gas and I don't want to go out of my way just to buy it.

Finally I thought I would reach out to a custom tuner but after not hearing back for a while I reached out to Halim directly to see if an ACN 91 specific tune was in the works since the F8X M3/M4 guys had one. And to my surprise they were able to add one to my account!
Here are the logs a couple of days after flashing the ACN91 map:
1. http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5c983987ae729b557198cda2
2. http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5c983a01ae729b557198cda4
3. http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5c983a5aae729b557198cda5

Looking much healthier and the car still feels nice. Working with Halim now to gather some more pulls to see if the map needs anymore tweaking but overall much happier for my car

I am so very very very disappointed in California's gas quality.

Last edited by nioh_lbbm2; 03-25-2019 at 07:50 PM.. Reason: typos
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      03-25-2019, 02:15 PM   #2
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Hi nioh_lbbm2, thanks for referencing my original thread.

I'm currently running OTS 91 Stage 2 with similar mods to you. I'd like to start capturing some logs again, but haven't had time since that original thread sort of fizzled out around October last year I think. I'm also thinking that it's important to get logs in the winter as well as summer, when IATs will obviously be higher, which is why I'd not really put much priority on it.

I'm happy to hear that your gas is equally as bad as that in the Bay Area, even if that's bad news for all Californians! I remember I once got a message from Halim@HCP after looking at my logs saying that it's the worst gas he'd ever seen, far more similar to 89 than 91 in his experience (see below for why this is relevant).

I'm also pleased to see Halim@HCP is considering an ACN OTS map. There was talk of this before, but I'm not sure if he ran out of time, or I ran out of time to gather logs, but it just didn't happen.

I'm still interested in doing a more thorough investigation into CA gas. I can't believe that there is some conspiracy and we're all getting less than 91 AKI within tolerance, but I do suspect that our gas is:
a) On the low side of the allowable tolerance
b) An unfavourable balance of RON & MON (I believe MON is more important than RON, and ours may be high RON, low MON to achieve the 91 AKI
c) Lower than even BMW expects, since even the stock map results in pulled timing!
The Wikipedia page for Octane has some interesting points about alternative octane ratings that could be eye opening...

Observed Road Octane Number (RdON) is a rating based on real world multi-cylinder engines on a dyno.

Aviation rich octane rating corresponds to the octane rating of a test engine under forced induction operation, just like modern turbocharged engines like ours.

My feeling is that the AKI rating found at pumps doesn't give enough of an indication in determining the quality of fuel for turbocharged engines... there may be better ways to test than just RON and MON, and therefore AKI.

Finally, I watched this YouTube video a few months back where the owner complains about his M4 GTS and all of the problems that he's had. The M4 GTS is interesting because it's a more aggressively tuned S55 than stock, and even includes water injection to reduce IATs. Our N55s with aftermarket tunes, FMICs, DP etc. are in the same way attempting to reduce IATs and tune more aggressively. It's not apples to apples I know, but what's interesting is the comments at 7:57 where Alejandro talks to the owner talks about how even BMW accused him of buying low octane (89) fuel! I bet he didn't, and CA fuel is just worse that BMW even realises!

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      03-25-2019, 04:02 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nioh_lbbm2 View Post
Hi guys,

Some folks wanted me to create a thread on my journey thus far with a tuned FBO M2 in California pump gas.

Originally I was planning to hop immediately on to BM3's Stage 2 91 Oct tune after having just installed a FMIC and charge pipes. I already had a Fabspeed 200 cell sport cat and Remus exhaust.

The tune initially get great but I was comparing directly to stock. The difference in power and delivery was immediately noticeable but of course I was curious about my engine's health and did some logging with the help of SeanWRT :
Stage 2 91 oct:
http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5c8415e1c090c6197fc21b88

Looks like timings were all over the place. Now granted I am a complete newbie to reading these logs so I relied on Sean's guidance.

Went back down to Stage 1 91:
1. http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5c854cbfc090c6197fc21e2b
2. http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5c854dacc090c6197fc21e2d
3. http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5c854e83c090c6197fc21e35

Looking better but still not quite right.
Did some researching I re-read Nezil mega thread on his similar journey but he had access to race gas that I did not. There's only 1 station in San Diego near me that offers race gas and I don't want to go out of my way just to buy it.

Finally I thought I would reach out to a custom tuner but after not hearing back for a while I reached out to Halim directly to see if an ACN 91 specific tune was in the works since the F8X M3/M4 guys had one. And to my surprise they were able to add one to my account!
Here are the logs a couple of days after flashing the ACN91 map:
1. http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5c983987ae729b557198cda2
2. http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5c983a01ae729b557198cda4
3. http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5c983a5aae729b557198cda5

Looking much healthier and the car still feels nice. Working with Halim now to gather some more pulls to see if the map needs anymore tweaking but overall much happier for my car

I am so very very very disappointed in California's gas quality.
I'd want this but for stage 1 not stage 2. How do I get this ACN map added to my account?
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      03-25-2019, 04:37 PM   #4
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@akkando mine was listed as Stage 1. I got it by opening a ticket with BM3 support and requesting it specifically and showing them my logs from their OTS maps. I'm not sure if it's something they'll readily give out. They're still testing it with me to see if it's good to go or if more tweaks are needed. They want a 3rd to 4th gear pull fr me and I need to find a safe spot to do that first haha. Don't want to die or go to jail
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      03-25-2019, 07:53 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nezil View Post
Hi nioh_lbbm2, thanks for referencing my original thread.

I'm currently running OTS 91 Stage 2 with similar mods to you. I'd like to start capturing some logs again, but haven't had time since that original thread sort of fizzled out around October last year I think. I'm also thinking that it's important to get logs in the winter as well as summer, when IATs will obviously be higher, which is why I'd not really put much priority on it.

I'm happy to hear that your gas is equally as bad as that in the Bay Area, even if that's bad news for all Californians! I remember I once got a message from Halim@HCP after looking at my logs saying that it's the worst gas he'd ever seen, far more similar to 89 than 91 in his experience (see below for why this is relevant).

I'm also pleased to see Halim@HCP is considering an ACN OTS map. There was talk of this before, but I'm not sure if he ran out of time, or I ran out of time to gather logs, but it just didn't happen.

I'm still interested in doing a more thorough investigation into CA gas. I can't believe that there is some conspiracy and we're all getting less than 91 AKI within tolerance, but I do suspect that our gas is:
a) On the low side of the allowable tolerance
b) An unfavourable balance of RON & MON (I believe MON is more important than RON, and ours may be high RON, low MON to achieve the 91 AKI
c) Lower than even BMW expects, since even the stock map results in pulled timing!
The Wikipedia page for Octane has some interesting points about alternative octane ratings that could be eye opening...

Observed Road Octane Number (RdON) is a rating based on real world multi-cylinder engines on a dyno.

Aviation rich octane rating corresponds to the octane rating of a test engine under forced induction operation, just like modern turbocharged engines like ours.

My feeling is that the AKI rating found at pumps doesn't give enough of an indication in determining the quality of fuel for turbocharged engines... there may be better ways to test than just RON and MON, and therefore AKI.

Finally, I watched this YouTube video a few months back where the owner complains about his M4 GTS and all of the problems that he's had. The M4 GTS is interesting because it's a more aggressively tuned S55 than stock, and even includes water injection to reduce IATs. Our N55s with aftermarket tunes, FMICs, DP etc. are in the same way attempting to reduce IATs and tune more aggressively. It's not apples to apples I know, but what's interesting is the comments at 7:57 where Alejandro talks to the owner talks about how even BMW accused him of buying low octane (89) fuel! I bet he didn't, and CA fuel is just worse that BMW even realises!
Wow...I hope something can change and california get's some decent gas but i highly doubt it considering the people that live here. What concerns me is that our 91 is even really 91 oct but a bastardization and seems like car manufacturers don't know that which is really concerning when a stock car with pump gas can develop knock
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      03-25-2019, 07:56 PM   #6
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Hey guys, I haven't been so active on the forums until lately.

Any request, like this ACN map. I'm always up for it, I simply need some logs and I'll take care of it!
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      03-27-2019, 11:30 AM   #7
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We have the same issue with fuel quality in Western Canada, I'm convinced it's a combination of regulations and the slate of heavy crude that refiners run in our provinces/states. The AKI system seems to be rigged by refiners juicing RON over MON and still achieving the same AKI rating. We have 94 here that won't run the OTS 91 maps, it behaves similar to your ACN91. I ended up running 1/4 can of Boostane Professional in each tank to get clean timing and avoid knock. Not sure if you could get away with it there since it's technically not for road use.
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      03-27-2019, 11:51 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pray for Mojo View Post
We have the same issue with fuel quality in Western Canada, I'm convinced it's a combination of regulations and the slate of heavy crude that refiners run in our provinces/states. The AKI system seems to be rigged by refiners juicing RON over MON and still achieving the same AKI rating. We have 94 here that won't run the OTS 91 maps, it behaves similar to your ACN91. I ended up running 1/4 can of Boostane Professional in each tank to get clean timing and avoid knock. Not sure if you could get away with it there since it's technically not for road use.
Have you pulled your plugs to check if you get the orange residue from boostane? That's what I don't want to have all over my powertrain. There used to be a well known bimmerpost member "teh boost" with a Cali tuned M2 who chased good timings and used boostane. His plugs, downpipe, exhaust were all coated with orange gunk
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      03-27-2019, 11:58 AM   #9
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Mine has the orange hue on everything, the NGK plugs have 10,000km with no issue and 8 cans of boostane through them. The MMT that coats everything in orange used to be the go to octane booster than refiners used in the 90s. My exhaust isn't showing the orange but I recently upgraded to Remus so I only have 5,000km on it. I started reducing the amount of boostane I'm using to 1/4-1/8 of a can since I stopped trying to run the 93 OTS map.
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      04-24-2019, 02:54 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Halim@HCP View Post
Hey guys, I haven't been so active on the forums until lately.

Any request, like this ACN map. I'm always up for it, I simply need some logs and I'll take care of it!
Do you need logs on the stock tune, or 5.7, or does it matter?
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      12-08-2019, 09:57 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Halim@HCP View Post
Hey guys, I haven't been so active on the forums until lately.

Any request, like this ACN map. I'm always up for it, I simply need some logs and I'll take care of it!
I recently flashed to stage 91 and realized I should be on the ACN given I'm im vegas.

How do we do logs to show if Vegas gas is just as bad as Cali? I really dont want to lose power and feels like the ACN 91 tune wont be as powerful as the regular 91 tune for stage 1.
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      12-08-2019, 10:06 PM   #12
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Also found this on wiki

The most typically used engine management systems found in automobiles today have a knock sensor that monitors if knock is being produced by the fuel being used. In modern computer-controlled engines, the ignition timing will be automatically altered by the engine management system to reduce the knock to an acceptable level.


How does knocking even sound like? How do u know if u are besides from data logging?
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      12-09-2019, 12:48 PM   #13
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I felt this weird torque dip on the non ACN tune. Like it would feel like it would give me power, then I would feel it go away, then it would come back on a pull.

The ACN tune the power is linear.
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      12-09-2019, 02:15 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akkando View Post
I felt this weird torque dip on the non ACN tune. Like it would feel like it would give me power, then I would feel it go away, then it would come back on a pull.

The ACN tune the power is linear.

That's probably timing coming and going as it detects knock and adjusts.
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      12-09-2019, 03:29 PM   #15
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I've been doing some research in to octane around the world recently, and I'll try and summarise what I've found as briefly as possible:
  • US Fuel is rated in AKI, the average of RON and MON
  • Most of the rest of the world rates fuel in RON only
  • You need to know two of the numbers (AKI, RON and MON) in order to convert between the two, it's not as simple as saying 91 AKI = 95 RON, it doesn't!
  • Sensitivity is the difference between RON and MON, and since AKI is an average, two fuels with different sensitivity can have the same AKI
  • Although it may seem counter-intuitive, modern engines are said to be operating 'beyond RON'. This means that not only are they more sensitive to RON than MON, but their performance actually improves as MON reduces; in other words, higher sensitivity is important
  • The best fuel for our engines therefore will have a high RON, and a high sensitivity (low MON)
As an example, the UK fuel regulations state that regular fuel must have a minimum RON of 95, and a minimum MON of 85; premium fuel must have a minimum RON of 97, and a minimum MON of 86. Given that we have these two numbers, we can calculate both the AKI and the sensitivity. Regular = minimum 90 AKI (sensitivity 10), Premium = minimum 91.5 AKI (sensitivity 11).

As another example, Premium CA 91 fuel has a minimum AKI of 91, and the standards require a minimum sensitivity of 7.5. We don't know the RON and MON, but we can calculate them from the AKI and sensitivity to be 94.75 RON and 87.25 MON.

Obviously these are the minimum specs. A UK fuel could have a high MON, low sensitivity and be very similar to CA 91 in terms of octane, but I suspect not.

I found a very recent document from April 2018 detailing the testimony of Chet Thompson, President and CEO, American Fuel & Petrochemical Manufacturers to the U.S. House Energy and Commerce Subcommittee on the Environment. The document is titled "High Octane Fuels and High Efficiency Vehicles: Challenges and Opportunities". In this article, The AFPM proposes a nationwide move to a 95 RON standard for fuel because it would provide a greater than 3% efficiency gain for modern engines. 95 RON is proposed because it is a good cross over between cost of manufacture and efficiency gain. The whole article, linked here is worth a read, but perhaps most importantly though, was this paragraph:
In evaluating the difference between 95 and 96-RON, it became increasingly clear that California is an important limiting factor for increased octane. Specifically, California’s air quality emission regulations limit the ability to increase the octane rating of the base gasoline to achieve more than a 95-RON E10 gasoline standard, and even reaching 95-RON E10 for all gasoline in the state is a steep challenge.
If reaching 95 RON for CA is a challenge, that effectively means that the fuel here is at the minimum sensitivity limit of 7.5 - 94.75 RON / 87.25 MON. This is significantly inferior to a UK base fuel of 95 RON / 85 MON and way inferior to UK premium 97 RON / 86 MON.
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      12-09-2019, 04:53 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cecaa850 View Post
That's probably timing coming and going as it detects knock and adjusts.
That was my guess too.
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      12-09-2019, 10:38 PM   #17
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I noticed the ACN 91 tune shows BETA? I don't see any other versions for stage 1 ACN.
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      12-13-2019, 03:15 AM   #18
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OK so I finally tuned my car to the ACN 91 stage 1 after realizing I already have the latest version even tho it says BETA. The technical support from bm3 mislead me to some wrong info about ACN tune and that there was an update.

Anyways what I realized is the car feels more smooth and more calm...almost like OEM like feel. When I was stock and tuned to stage 1 I do realize the power gains but one thing it also made me realize was how nice stock tune was and how the car felt...now with the ACN tune the car feels like that again...

It's safe to say the stage 1 tune felt slightly rough and I'm glad the motor is more happier now with the proper ACN tune. I tried datalogging the stage 1 tune but it wasn't able to save but I'll try to datalog once I figure out how to do.

nioh_lbbm2 which FMIC did you install? I have the VRSF 5in along with the fabspeed 200 cell so I'm technically Stage 2 ready but I'm gonna enjoy Stage 1 for now. Looking forward to feeling the power difference eventually.
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      12-13-2019, 08:23 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D CHOI View Post
OK so I finally tuned my car to the ACN 91 stage 1 after realizing I already have the latest version even tho it says BETA. The technical support from bm3 mislead me to some wrong info about ACN tune and that there was an update.

Anyways what I realized is the car feels more smooth and more calm...almost like OEM like feel. When I was stock and tuned to stage 1 I do realize the power gains but one thing it also made me realize was how nice stock tune was and how the car felt...now with the ACN tune the car feels like that again...

It's safe to say the stage 1 tune felt slightly rough and I'm glad the motor is more happier now with the proper ACN tune. I tried datalogging the stage 1 tune but it wasn't able to save but I'll try to datalog once I figure out how to do.

nioh_lbbm2 which FMIC did you install? I have the VRSF 5in along with the fabspeed 200 cell so I'm technically Stage 2 ready but I'm gonna enjoy Stage 1 for now. Looking forward to feeling the power difference eventually.
I have the same FMIC and I'm catless. I haven't actually logged stage 2 ACN91. I should probably do that soon

I'm eager to see how we both fare on it
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      12-14-2019, 12:15 AM   #20
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Does anyone feel like the burble setting for ACN stage 1 vs stage 1 is slightly less aggressive at the same values?

I had aggression 10 during my stage 1 and felt like it was poppin harder than ACN stage 1 at 10.5.

Perhaps since it's a theoretically less powerful tune which would cause it to be like that?
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      12-14-2019, 08:32 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D CHOI View Post
Does anyone feel like the burble setting for ACN stage 1 vs stage 1 is slightly less aggressive at the same values?

I had aggression 10 during my stage 1 and felt like it was poppin harder than ACN stage 1 at 10.5.

Perhaps since it's a theoretically less powerful tune which would cause it to be like that?
Just turn the burble off like a real man.
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      01-01-2020, 02:49 PM   #22
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I've been doing 100 octane mix with vegas 91 to get 93 octane and it's a noticeable difference. The engine revs more freely and feels more happy especially at higher RPMs.

I've been testing it on stage 1 ACN 91 first then to regular 91 and now 93. Been enjoying every level up in power. Impressive gains each time

Looking forward to trying stage 2 eventually especially with 93mix octane.
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