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      02-06-2017, 07:36 PM   #45
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      02-07-2017, 05:35 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by ZPrime View Post
Obviously DCT is only really found in M-cars, right?
Don't let the guys with 135s and 335is hear you say that - they will start thinking they have a M car!

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      02-07-2017, 06:39 PM   #47
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Don't let the guys with 135s and 335is hear you say that - they will start thinking they have a M car!

I wasn't aware the 135 and 335 got the DCT, thought those were the ZF 8speed. My coworker has a 435x and I'm pretty sure that is the 8 speed slushbox... The actual stick itself has the P on top, I thought the easy way to tell them apart was the DCT has the little "M-knob" instead?

I suppose there are no AWD cars with DCT too...
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      02-07-2017, 06:57 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by ZPrime View Post
I suppose there are no AWD cars with DCT too...
Now you are just getting crazy

(and yes, lots of people wish the X5M/X6M came with DCT)

and yes, the DCT was available on those cars! And believe it or not, it was only $450 (so no, I'm not sure it was the same - but it was DCT) and... the Z4 got it too! forgot about that one.

However, today, you are correct, you can't find it in a non M car. Unless you find a Z4 35is sitting around a dealer lot.
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      02-07-2017, 07:26 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by tomwac View Post
The title sounds maybe a bit silly, but I'm on the verge of ordering an M2. I have all the options figured out but can't decide on the transmission. I test drove the DCT but there is no 6MT to be found for a test drive. This will be my wife's car and I know, as a daily, DCT is easier, but I keep reading the rave reviews on the 6MT and just don't want to make a mistake. As it will also be my occasional trackway car (just 1, 2 times a year and some 'ring laps) I just wonder what the performance difference is. I'm quite familiar with DCT as my F83 has it, but I don't know how the 6MT feels on the M2, what the driving experience is. When I put my F83 in sport/sport+ and crank up de DCT setting, all this drama awakens, which makes the car sharp and aggressive, the exhaust burbles and crackles... as the M2 does not have the DCT custom settings, the choice gets even thougher... Is the shifter as precise as, say, GT4, or is it just like a 'normal' 2 series? Short throws? Does the exhaust note change, I read that the car gets too aggressive in sport? Any thoughts are welcome
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      02-12-2017, 05:33 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Benef1cient View Post
No love for manuals in PL.
I'm a bit afraid to choose a manual (although it would be unique then in PL) while going to track.
Myslalem ze Polacy bardziej lubia samochody ... nie kieroj sie tym co inni robia, tylko tym co chcesz ...
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      02-12-2017, 05:48 PM   #51
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So, BMW Belgium went a long way to arrange a manual for me to test. The DCT car was with all the M Performance goodies + exhaust, while this was a standard equipped car. I went to the test center with no high expectations, but already when I got into the car it felt better: manual seats = lower seating position which suits me much better. Started the car: no droning like with the M Perf exhaust. I'll make the story short: while during the DCT test drive I returned the car after 45min, leaving with the impression that it's a fun little car, but a bit clinical, this time I came back after 1.5h, because I really had to, not because I wanted to. Completely different car, so much more fun. Imo, the M2 is made to be sold with a manual, and this is coming from someone who loves the DCT transmission. But, while in my M4 cab the DCT feels like the 2 are made for each other, the opposite is true for the M2. Rev matching didn't bother me as it's very subtle in comfort mode. In sports mode, the sounds, popping, crackles get very present, the whole car comes alive. Yes, the throw is long and rubbery, sure the clutch pedal has a long travel, but these minuses did not spoil the experience. I just loved every second of the drive and now really understand why the more serious car journo's rave about it. For me, the decision is made and I would strongly suggest to anyone considering this car, to test drive both.
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      02-12-2017, 06:13 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomwac View Post
So, BMW Belgium went a long way to arrange a manual for me to test. The DCT car was with all the M Performance goodies + exhaust, while this was a standard equipped car. I went to the test center with no high expectations, but already when I got into the car it felt better: manual seats = lower seating position which suits me much better. Started the car: no droning like with the M Perf exhaust. I'll make the story short: while during the DCT test drive I returned the car after 45min, leaving with the impression that it's a fun little car, but a bit clinical, this time I came back after 1.5h, because I really had to, not because I wanted to. Completely different car, so much more fun. Imo, the M2 is made to be sold with a manual, and this is coming from someone who loves the DCT transmission. But, while in my M4 cab the DCT feels like the 2 are made for each other, the opposite is true for the M2. Rev matching didn't bother me as it's very subtle in comfort mode. In sports mode, the sounds, popping, crackles get very present, the whole car comes alive. Yes, the throw is long and rubbery, sure the clutch pedal has a long travel, but these minuses did not spoil the experience. I just loved every second of the drive and now really understand why the more serious car journo's rave about it. For me, the decision is made and I would strongly suggest to anyone considering this car, to test drive both.
I did not expect that you would change your mind from DCT to manual... Like you can read in this topic; is also tested both M2's (DCT vs Manual) and changed my order from DCT to manual after the test (electric seat and M performance exhaust are items I never considered in buying)... Like you said; only downside is the long pedal travel of the clutch. Was the manual M2 that BMW Belgium provided; a blue one?
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      02-12-2017, 06:42 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Franzino View Post
I did not expect that you would change your mind from DCT to manual... Like you can read in this topic; is also tested both M2's (DCT vs Manual) and changed my order from DCT to manual after the test (electric seat and M performance exhaust are items I never considered in buying)... Like you said; only downside is the long pedal travel of the clutch. Was the manual M2 that BMW Belgium provided; a blue one?
Yes, it was a blue one, press car... as was the DTC car... they also pulled out a brand new white one, for me to see it IRL, as this is the color I want...I must say that the guys in Bornem are extremely helpful...
I also didn't expect that the manual would convince me, but life is full of surprises ... it's just a more natural package for this car, albeit not a popular one when looking at sales numbers...
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      02-12-2017, 07:40 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomwac View Post
Yes, it was a blue one, press car... as was the DTC car... they also pulled out a brand new white one, for me to see it IRL, as this is the color I want...I must say that the guys in Bornem are extremely helpful...
I also didn't expect that the manual would convince me, but life is full of surprises ... it's just a more natural package for this car, albeit not a popular one when looking at sales numbers...
The blue press car is the same as I drove in Bornem...they were also very helpfull to help me make my gearbox decisison. The most popular choice in Belgium is indeed the DCT, I thought it was 75% DCT vs 25% Manual....in the M2...with the M3/M4 there are almost 0 manual cars sold in Benelux.
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      02-13-2017, 03:40 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by tomwac View Post
Myslalem ze Polacy bardziej lubia samochody ... nie kieroj sie tym co inni robia, tylko tym co chcesz ...
You know polish, congrats on knowing one of top 3 hardest languages on Earth
Most of people here buy new M cars for status reasons i think and not because of driving involvement, but that's just my theory.
You're right that I should follow my desires but I'm also a pragmatic that can't test manual anywhere, hence my uncertainties. Maybe I'll call BMW Berlin dealerships as I'm from Poznan which is 270km from Berlin
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      02-13-2017, 03:36 PM   #56
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You know polish, congrats on knowing one of top 3 hardest languages on Earth
Most of people here buy new M cars for status reasons i think and not because of driving involvement, but that's just my theory.
You're right that I should follow my desires but I'm also a pragmatic that can't test manual anywhere, hence my uncertainties. Maybe I'll call BMW Berlin dealerships as I'm from Poznan which is 270km from Berlin
Polish is my mother language, is no big deal
You should definitely drive a manual before signing, as it's much more entertaining but probably not for everyone, especially if you're in doubt...
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      02-19-2017, 04:41 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomwac View Post
So, BMW Belgium went a long way to arrange a manual for me to test. The DCT car was with all the M Performance goodies + exhaust, while this was a standard equipped car. I went to the test center with no high expectations, but already when I got into the car it felt better: manual seats = lower seating position which suits me much better. Started the car: no droning like with the M Perf exhaust. I'll make the story short: while during the DCT test drive I returned the car after 45min, leaving with the impression that it's a fun little car, but a bit clinical, this time I came back after 1.5h, because I really had to, not because I wanted to. Completely different car, so much more fun. Imo, the M2 is made to be sold with a manual, and this is coming from someone who loves the DCT transmission. But, while in my M4 cab the DCT feels like the 2 are made for each other, the opposite is true for the M2. Rev matching didn't bother me as it's very subtle in comfort mode. In sports mode, the sounds, popping, crackles get very present, the whole car comes alive. Yes, the throw is long and rubbery, sure the clutch pedal has a long travel, but these minuses did not spoil the experience. I just loved every second of the drive and now really understand why the more serious car journo's rave about it. For me, the decision is made and I would strongly suggest to anyone considering this car, to test drive both.
Thanks for posting this. Super helpful review of the 2. I'm also so undecided.
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      02-19-2017, 05:02 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by tomwac View Post
Polish is my mother language, is no big deal
You should definitely drive a manual before signing, as it's much more entertaining but probably not for everyone, especially if you're in doubt...
I was thinking about it for the last two weeks.
As much as I like DSG in my GTI i lack interaction so I've decided to go manual in the M2 even without testing it first. I've driven shitty/normal manuals in my previous cars (as we all do in Europe) and this one is gonna be awesome comparing to those for sure.
Driving the GTI for two years leaves me with one conclusion - It's a great all-rounder but it doesn't excel in anything and this time I want a focused car - focused on fun and interaction, even when I'm tired after work or in traffic
I think I finally understand why people love the 1M so much.
I've made too many rational decisions in my life, it's high time to start to listen to my inner self
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      02-19-2017, 03:45 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by michaeldorian View Post
Thanks for posting this. Super helpful review of the 2. I'm also so undecided.
It is a difficult decision... Yesterday, I went for a fast drive in the Ardennes with a buddy with a M4 and having the DCT in my cab was a blast...bang, bang bang, changing gears without even thinking and faster than any human could do, so I even started to second guess my 'manual M2' decision, but after rethinking how fun the manual config was, I'm sticking with it ...
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      02-19-2017, 04:53 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by tomwac View Post
It is a difficult decision... Yesterday, I went for a fast drive in the Ardennes with a buddy with a M4 and having the DCT in my cab was a blast...bang, bang bang, changing gears without even thinking and faster than any human could do, so I even started to second guess my 'manual M2' decision, but after rethinking how fun the manual config was, I'm sticking with it ...
It was also a really difficult decision for me...and I also tested both cars. I doubted it almost till the day my M2 was delivered. But in the end I thought that over time a manual gearbox would keep me longer entertained even if it makes the car slower. The manual for me is also more fun and more engaging... something that fits well with the M2. Time will tell if I made the right choice, but for now I'm happy with the manual even with the clutch feeling not being the greatest.
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      02-19-2017, 05:47 PM   #61
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Jan 25:
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Originally Posted by tomwac View Post
A very sensible post, and I agree fully. I don't care what people say about manuals and like I mentioned, it will 99% be the DCT, I just want to experience what the hype is all about...unless Harris and the likes are right and it blows me away, with the info I have, I don't see myself getting the manual.
Feb 12:
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomwac View Post
So, BMW Belgium went a long way to arrange a manual for me to test. The DCT car was with all the M Performance goodies + exhaust, while this was a standard equipped car. I went to the test center with no high expectations, but already when I got into the car it felt better: manual seats = lower seating position which suits me much better. Started the car: no droning like with the M Perf exhaust. I'll make the story short: while during the DCT test drive I returned the car after 45min, leaving with the impression that it's a fun little car, but a bit clinical, this time I came back after 1.5h, because I really had to, not because I wanted to. Completely different car, so much more fun. Imo, the M2 is made to be sold with a manual, and this is coming from someone who loves the DCT transmission. But, while in my M4 cab the DCT feels like the 2 are made for each other, the opposite is true for the M2. Rev matching didn't bother me as it's very subtle in comfort mode. In sports mode, the sounds, popping, crackles get very present, the whole car comes alive. Yes, the throw is long and rubbery, sure the clutch pedal has a long travel, but these minuses did not spoil the experience. I just loved every second of the drive and now really understand why the more serious car journo's rave about it. For me, the decision is made and I would strongly suggest to anyone considering this car, to test drive both.
Ha, now that's a flip-flop.

See also this dedicated thread: http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1177987 ("M2 transmission: do you prefer manual or double-clutch ?")

Speaking for myself: 6MT was a deliberate choice from day 1 of the M2 ordering process back in October 2015 (and even long before). I had tons of fun with my 1M, so knew that BMW M wouldn't screw up with the M2 6MT. I tried to explain why in an earlier post (see here).

It's very subjective. We cannot make decisions for each other. Decide what you personally like most, likely with the pragmatic restriction how you'll mainly gonna use your car (for example, if you - or your significant other - encounter a lot of commuting traffic with painstakingly long queues, M-DCT may be the more appropriate option).

Anyways, whatever floats your boat, can't go wrong with either gearbox option.

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      02-20-2017, 05:38 AM   #62
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Only test drove the DCT, immediately felt it wasn't for me. I drove an M135i from my mate, the 8 speed ZF gearbox was a lot smoother, and barely any slower to respond.

I'm now at 2000km and don't regret my choice for the manual. A lot more fun at slower speeds. In May the first trackday at Zolder is planned, curious to see what the manual is like there.
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      02-20-2017, 06:10 AM   #63
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I think the M2 and manual tranny is the essence of this car.

This is like BMW's version of the 911R where it's not just about performance but about the purist driving experience and this is as close as you can get to that.

Having said that the GT4 manual transmission is hands down the best manual setup I have ever driven.
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      02-20-2017, 08:31 AM   #64
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After owning an e92 with DCT for 6 years, there are some clear differences in the application used in the M2.

Firstly, in comfort mode it's shift points are comically early in Drive. Turning out of the end of my street has the trans shifting to 2nd at around 10mph and it doesn't get any better. Manual shifts are smooth, but dulled and sometimes late, especially on the down shift, meaning I have grabbed 1st when I wanted 2nd a couple of times, because I'm an impatient sod.

However, in Sport or above, the shifts are much quicker and bang in harder and at my command. No waits or double cog drops due to me calling for the gear again.

This has meant that I exclusively use the manual actuation, rather than using D, which I would use occasionally in the e92, if I were just pottering around town.

Does this mean I would have preferred to have the manual now? Not a chance. A flat out Sunday morning blast confirms that the constant wall or torque and timely, perfect shifts, are sublime when "making progress" down a great B road.

It is different to the E92, and this is primarily because you cannot change the DCT ferocity without changing the driving mode. That's about the only thing I miss.
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      02-20-2017, 08:45 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomwac View Post
On Sunday I had a test drive with the DCT... Awesome, power is obviously down on my M4, but it's a much more focused car...as if the M4 cab is a very fast cruiser and if you ask it, it will play along on the back roads. The M2 is more of a terrier who is nagging to go the the back roads and gun it. Very enjoyable little car. The only thing which is a huge 'nah' is the interior, just plain 2 series, and the M performance exhaust, which was droning like crazy. Not for everyday use, at least not for me nor for my wife. In 2 weeks I have a test drive scheduled with the manual, so I'm curious, even though I think I will order the DCT anyhow. I just know the auto rev-matching will drive me crazy, but I'm openminded
Personally I would get a M2 manual with the MPE. I drove Artemis's M2 on our Sella 3.0 tour this year... and it was incredible! In fact everyone who drove Luc's car was sold on a M2 manual!!

I really loved the sound from the MPE. It is loud but it has a lot of deep bass to it. Plus keep in mind when you guys test drive a new car... that the exhaust sound will deepen once the car has 10K kms or so on it. That is what I noticed on my 135i with a PE. Perhaps I am prejudiced on the MPE.

Luc also showed me that "hidden" MPE sport mode... where the exhaust will get REALLY loud! It's meant only for race tracks but my GOD it sounds INCREDIBLE!!

The Auto rev matching worked well. And I found that IF you double clutch or even just blip your own throttle on the downshifts... the tcm does not interfere. I don't know why, but no one seems to report on that feature(deactivation) - that it will let YOU the driver do everything(rev matching).

A DCT is nice(and faster) but for me the "only" way to order a M2 would be with the manual transmission. That is how I would take mine.

I consider myself lucky to have Artemis as a friend who let me drive his "baby" in the Alps.

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      02-20-2017, 03:17 PM   #66
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I consider myself lucky to have Artemis as a friend who let me drive his "baby" in the Alps.
Dackel
Looking forward to also let you this year row the M2 6MT gears in the twisties.

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