[medphysdave]

Originally Posted by OG Shark

That's what I'm here for



We are still not at that point - I do believe that will be the future but still a few years off from such an animal. The R1 will be completely hands off of the dampers though with the EDC control being the only point of adjustment. More on this below...



Ok work with me a bit here - I'm going to try to go through this with my uneducated, unqualified background on the inner workings of these Chris with Inertia Laboratory is actually doing an in depth write up on these that will be up when his new site is finished.

The R1 is yes singe adjustment but considered a two way. The EDC control will both rebound and compression. The valve's adjustment is predetermined and the settings will basically be more or less for a lack of better terms. Instead of a full dial of adjustment range like with the traditional R1 the eR1 will have the three levels for comfort, sport, & sport+. We will be going through everything like we did with the traditional kit to see if there is any room for improvement to make the most of each of those 3 settings. Ultimate plug & play - once we have these dialed in all you have to do is just push the button.

The R3 is at a different level. It is still 3 way - separate dials for high and low speed comp with rebound being fully controlled through the EDC button. The way rebound is controlled it is not possible to have an adjuster rod with dial and a wire running through the piston rod - so it's one or the other. So the only rebound adjustment is the EDC button here hence still being a 3 way. Rebound is the largest force though so making an adjustment just to it inside the car will make a big change in the behavior of the car. For a street car this allows us to bring in compression to a level conducive to comfort and then the EDC switch still allows you to ramp the car up when desired and not have to go absolutely full stiff if you do not want to. Allows you to really tailor the ride characteristics as you see fit. If you track then you still have the option to take the compression where you need to to be and still work the rebound with the EDC control. And with high and low speed bump being separate you can really dial in for things like curbs, bumpy tracks, etc. We will certainly provide baseline setting recommendations with the kits too.

The R3 kit for the F8x is being spec'd as piggyback reservoirs. I personally prefer hosed remote canisters with quick disconnects on the hoses as they are much more convenient to make adjustments to and also move the reservoirs away from the heat from the brakes. Both will perform excellently but the remote/hosed versions will come in about 1200.00 more due to the price of the QDs. Personal preference here just fyi.

Ok, so work with me here. In the grand scheme of EDC. The end user is likely not going to be changing EDC modes frequently. You will have 3 rebound settings. These rebound settings can then be played with using configurations of high/low speed compression. However, there is probably 1 ideal compression rebound combo for each rebound setting? Or not necessarily that is where the fine tuning comes into play for the specific scenario?

I may be talking myself into the R1 lol.

Diverging to another topic. How does the rebound tuning interplay with spring rate? Does it allow me to run a stiffer spring with more comfort, or run a softer spring and get more performance?

If you've optimized the R1 for the springs your currently running to provide the best compromise of comfort and performance. Is it possible for the EDC to enhance those rates, or is it now a balance of maybe being able to run a softer spring with same performance, or a stiffer spring for enhanced performance with same comfort?

I'd probably opt for the remote reservoirs because I'm not crawling under the car to adjust.

I'm so curious about how all the testing plays out.

My scenarios to tackle would be

DD around down. (Guessing high speed adjustment is important)
DD highway (mostly smooth, but dial out some high speed harshness)
Mountain/back roads that have seasonal decay

Track
Smooth, tolerate hitting the curbs
Bumpy track setting

How different are the rebound requirements for these scenarios?

How different are the high speed compression/low speed compression needs for these scenarios.

Let's face it. On DD 1/2 I'm will to press a button, but I'm not turning dials on the compression settings. Planned back road trips with the boys/girls, then yes I'd dial in specific settings

Track, yeah, I'd set dials for track.

What I think I'm really asking for is a recipe book that translates suspension settings into real world and track scenarios. I likely wouldn't mess around much with the preset guidance because I'd only have the butt Dyno collecting data.

I may have saved myself $1200 in this mind dump because I don't think I'd be making adjustments often.

This is a lot of work on your end.

Great chat

Edit: Sent you a PM

[Aeko]

Originally Posted by OG Shark

The R1 is yes singe adjustment but considered a two way. The EDC control will both rebound and compression. The valve's adjustment is predetermined and the settings will basically be more or less for a lack of better terms. Instead of a full dial of adjustment range like with the traditional R1 the eR1 will have the three levels for comfort, sport, & sport+. We will be going through everything like we did with the traditional kit to see if there is any room for improvement to make the most of each of those 3 settings. Ultimate plug & play - once we have these dialed in all you have to do is just push the button.

Interesting, thanks for clarifying all this! Out of curiosity, do you know if the OE dampers also only adjust rebound?

I'm also looking forward to the answers to Dave's questions as well

[monstruo]

Originally Posted by OG Shark

Have gotten word that the kits are going into production and we can start taking orders. This is for Nitron's standard off the shelf kit - which while I expect to be a great setup I'm not quite sure what it will be like until we get our test kits. Our first test kit is going to be the eR3 and will be here shortly and we will start development immediately - so our option will not be available for a bit longer. I can start taking order on their standard kit though. And if we find that there is nothing we want to change we are not going to mess with it just for the sake of having our own "custom" kits.

The R3 is spec'd with piggyback reservoirs. Per the previous post I prefer remoted w/hoses and quick disconnects but both are certainly great options and comes down to personal preference.

Nitron elec-TRON R3: 8,367.00 USD + shipping (piggyback); 9,547.00 USD + shipping (remote w/QDs)
Nitron elec-TRON R1: 5.867.00 USD + shipping
Nitron elec-TRON Road Kit: 4,667.00 USD + shipping

The Road Kit is not quite ready yet as they are still getting the production of it's unique springs squared away. Everything that is needed for installation will be included (including camber plates for the R1 & R3).

Any word or ETA on their lift kit for F87?

[medphysdave]

I'm going to beat this topic to death, but I can't stop thinking about the joys of an improved EDC solution. I'd say I'm an EDC maxi/fanboy. I refuse to give up the functionality for a dedicated set of manually adjustable coilovers. I'm also a fan of OGshark and the fact that he tunes suspension on this platform. I believe that this is super important for getting the most out of a product. When the time comes it is why I've chosen Nitron. I haven't made a purchase yet and my financial circumstance could change at any moment. However, I’m focused on making a set of OGshark nitrons my next upgrade. Since I'm also a fan of these Nitrons I'll share my thoughts and questions here with hope that it helps someone else that is contemplating a suspension upgrade.
I’ve spent more time than I’d care to admit researching compression, rebound, valves, adjustment techniques and BMW EDC. It raises some questions and concerns about my use case and what will fit best. A lot of this won’t be known until the eTron testing is complete. Please correct any of my inaccuracies. I’ve tried to digest a lot and may have misinterpreted some concepts.

1. BMW EDC electronically controls compression and rebound using a number of user inputs to help the car brake sooner and remain level in all driving conditions (Be sure your ride level sensors are adjusted correctly if you’ve lowered your car or messed with the LCAs) The system is adjusting dynamically. We are aware of the 3 user settings.
a. Unknowns: Are the 3 settings starting points and the car can use the entire range of comfort/sport/sport + to adjust, or does each of these settings have a fixed range of adjustment and different weighting applied to the ride leveling logic?

ChatGPT4: In BMW vehicles equipped with Electronic Damper Control (EDC) and multiple suspension settings, such as Comfort, Sport, and Sport+, each setting has its own dynamic range. These ranges are distinct and tailored to specific driving conditions and preferences:
1. Comfort Mode: This setting ensures the most comfortable ride by utilizing a softer range of the suspension's capabilities. It's designed for everyday driving, prioritizing smoothness and comfort over sporty handling.
2. Sport Mode: Sport mode adjusts the suspension to a firmer setting, enhancing the vehicle's dynamics and handling. This mode is suitable for more spirited driving, where tighter control and reduced body roll are desirable.
3. Sport+ Mode: The Sport+ setting further stiffens the suspension, offering the most dynamic and sporty driving experience. It maximizes handling performance, often at the expense of some ride comfort, making it ideal for enthusiastic driving or track conditions.
Each mode uses a specific portion of the suspension's dynamic range, optimized for the intended driving experience. The system does not use the entire range in all settings but adjusts within predetermined limits based on the selected mode.

2. High speed compression seems to be what will control the drivers perception of comfort. Think of hitting manhole covers in a road where they are sunk in a bit. Hard quick hit.

3. Rebound high/low can’t be denied because it controls how the vehicle is set for subsequent bumps. One and done bumps might not exacerbate a poorly tuned rebound. Multiple bumps or rolling undulations will. The latter might be low speed rebound but I’m not sure. I think most dampers 3 way and below are high speed rebound. Low speed rebound seems useful if you have the time to really fine tune on a track, but I don’t see much use on the street. I’m thinking it helps ensure the lifting wheel in a turn remains planted without disrupting the car in a turn or transition. My perception is that most street interactions are high speed when it comes to comfort.

4. Low speed compression is not going to be attributed so much to ride comfort as it will to being able to control body roll from side to side (cornering) and front to back (braking/on throttle). Also how a care transitions in corners is helped with low speed.

5. High speed bleed off adjustment. I can’t see when this would be necessary on a street car unless you hit a manhole and the cover wasn’t there Or really harsh roads that have lots of big, wheel damaging, pot holes.

What does it all mean? How will it all work?

I think we all want to envision and electronic suspension as a computer controlled 5 way damper. The reality is that I think most are a 2 way (BMW EDC, Nitron e-R1) The odd duck is the e-R3 and how it will actually work when paired with EDC.

R3: On a street car I would make the argument that a 3 way damper is going to allow you the best ride comfort for a given spring rate while still allowing the ability to not compromise track day performance. You can dial in the high speed compression to your specific commute. You hit the same bumps and road imperfections every day. Same with the rebound. You can adjust his to your situation. Someone like OGShark that has tuned the dampers on track can give a great starting point for both street and track settings. Likely minimizing or eliminating the need to spend much time on your track day messing with settings.

R1: Seems like this would be the best compromise and choice if you want to optimize for the track and be tolerable for the street. Keep the springs stiff enough for body roll control and most of the valve is a high speed compression/rebound combo.

It seems to me that the E-tron R1 is most closely related to what EDC is used to using. An electronic damper that simultaneously controls compression/rebound. If the E-tron R3 is only controlling rebound electronically, then how is the R3 going to reach synergy with the BMW EDC? It seems to me that it will lose some of its ability to control body roll. The car is going to think it’s adjusting something that it isn’t so it’s only going to be getting half of it’s request. Can ride leveling be controlled by rebound alone when it seems like low speed compression control is what is needed for this.

Counter argument to this is that if your springs are stiff enough, and your high speed and low speed compression are dialed in. How much work is the EDC really going to need to do? Which begs the question. Were all the EDC naysayers correct? Ditch the EDC and get a good 3-way manual damper?

All of this is to say that I’m super curious I can’t wait to see what comes out of the testing. I think there is a chance that the e-R1 comes out on top due to the current performance from the R1, No need for user adjustment, and price. Especially if comfort/sport/sport + can be optimized for different scenarios like street, backroads, track or wet/dry/track. I’m also impatiently hoping that somehow the e-R3 blows us away.

[OG Shark]

Originally Posted by Aeko

Interesting, thanks for clarifying all this! Out of curiosity, do you know if the OE dampers also only adjust rebound?

I'm also looking forward to the answers to Dave's questions as well

The EDC adjusts the valving for both rebound and compression. The EDC control when hooked up to the R1 will do the same.

Originally Posted by monstruo

Any word or ETA on their lift kit for F87?

Not yet - I feel like they are going to lag behind a little while the concentrate on getting the first wave of the electron kits out. Will certainly update as I get more info. They will be universal fit so will not have to wait for platform specific applications. And will also be able to be retrofitted.

Originally Posted by medphysdave

I'm going to beat this topic to death, but I can't stop thinking about the joys of an improved EDC solution. I'd say I'm an EDC maxi/fanboy. I refuse to give up the functionality for a dedicated set of manually adjustable coilovers. I'm also a fan of OGshark and the fact that he tunes suspension on this platform. I believe that this is super important for getting the most out of a product. When the time comes it is why I've chosen Nitron. I haven't made a purchase yet and my financial circumstance could change at any moment. However, I’m focused on making a set of OGshark nitrons my next upgrade. Since I'm also a fan of these Nitrons I'll share my thoughts and questions here with hope that it helps someone else that is contemplating a suspension upgrade.
I’ve spent more time than I’d care to admit researching compression, rebound, valves, adjustment techniques and BMW EDC. It raises some questions and concerns about my use case and what will fit best. A lot of this won’t be known until the eTron testing is complete. Please correct any of my inaccuracies. I’ve tried to digest a lot and may have misinterpreted some concepts.

1. BMW EDC electronically controls compression and rebound using a number of user inputs to help the car brake sooner and remain level in all driving conditions (Be sure your ride level sensors are adjusted correctly if you’ve lowered your car or messed with the LCAs) The system is adjusting dynamically. We are aware of the 3 user settings.
a. Unknowns: Are the 3 settings starting points and the car can use the entire range of comfort/sport/sport + to adjust, or does each of these settings have a fixed range of adjustment and different weighting applied to the ride leveling logic?

ChatGPT4: In BMW vehicles equipped with Electronic Damper Control (EDC) and multiple suspension settings, such as Comfort, Sport, and Sport+, each setting has its own dynamic range. These ranges are distinct and tailored to specific driving conditions and preferences:
1. Comfort Mode: This setting ensures the most comfortable ride by utilizing a softer range of the suspension's capabilities. It's designed for everyday driving, prioritizing smoothness and comfort over sporty handling.
2. Sport Mode: Sport mode adjusts the suspension to a firmer setting, enhancing the vehicle's dynamics and handling. This mode is suitable for more spirited driving, where tighter control and reduced body roll are desirable.
3. Sport+ Mode: The Sport+ setting further stiffens the suspension, offering the most dynamic and sporty driving experience. It maximizes handling performance, often at the expense of some ride comfort, making it ideal for enthusiastic driving or track conditions.
Each mode uses a specific portion of the suspension's dynamic range, optimized for the intended driving experience. The system does not use the entire range in all settings but adjusts within predetermined limits based on the selected mode.

2. High speed compression seems to be what will control the drivers perception of comfort. Think of hitting manhole covers in a road where they are sunk in a bit. Hard quick hit.

3. Rebound high/low can’t be denied because it controls how the vehicle is set for subsequent bumps. One and done bumps might not exacerbate a poorly tuned rebound. Multiple bumps or rolling undulations will. The latter might be low speed rebound but I’m not sure. I think most dampers 3 way and below are high speed rebound. Low speed rebound seems useful if you have the time to really fine tune on a track, but I don’t see much use on the street. I’m thinking it helps ensure the lifting wheel in a turn remains planted without disrupting the car in a turn or transition. My perception is that most street interactions are high speed when it comes to comfort.

4. Low speed compression is not going to be attributed so much to ride comfort as it will to being able to control body roll from side to side (cornering) and front to back (braking/on throttle). Also how a care transitions in corners is helped with low speed.

5. High speed bleed off adjustment. I can’t see when this would be necessary on a street car unless you hit a manhole and the cover wasn’t there Or really harsh roads that have lots of big, wheel damaging, pot holes.

What does it all mean? How will it all work?

I think we all want to envision and electronic suspension as a computer controlled 5 way damper. The reality is that I think most are a 2 way (BMW EDC, Nitron e-R1) The odd duck is the e-R3 and how it will actually work when paired with EDC.

R3: On a street car I would make the argument that a 3 way damper is going to allow you the best ride comfort for a given spring rate while still allowing the ability to not compromise track day performance. You can dial in the high speed compression to your specific commute. You hit the same bumps and road imperfections every day. Same with the rebound. You can adjust his to your situation. Someone like OGShark that has tuned the dampers on track can give a great starting point for both street and track settings. Likely minimizing or eliminating the need to spend much time on your track day messing with settings.

R1: Seems like this would be the best compromise and choice if you want to optimize for the track and be tolerable for the street. Keep the springs stiff enough for body roll control and most of the valve is a high speed compression/rebound combo.

It seems to me that the E-tron R1 is most closely related to what EDC is used to using. An electronic damper that simultaneously controls compression/rebound. If the E-tron R3 is only controlling rebound electronically, then how is the R3 going to reach synergy with the BMW EDC? It seems to me that it will lose some of its ability to control body roll. The car is going to think it’s adjusting something that it isn’t so it’s only going to be getting half of it’s request. Can ride leveling be controlled by rebound alone when it seems like low speed compression control is what is needed for this.

Counter argument to this is that if your springs are stiff enough, and your high speed and low speed compression are dialed in. How much work is the EDC really going to need to do? Which begs the question. Were all the EDC naysayers correct? Ditch the EDC and get a good 3-way manual damper?

All of this is to say that I’m super curious I can’t wait to see what comes out of the testing. I think there is a chance that the e-R1 comes out on top due to the current performance from the R1, No need for user adjustment, and price. Especially if comfort/sport/sport + can be optimized for different scenarios like street, backroads, track or wet/dry/track. I’m also impatiently hoping that somehow the e-R3 blows us away.

I agree - the R3 is the wild card right now. I have a pretty good idea what we are going to get with the R1 and believe it will be as good as expected. The R3 however is a bit of uncharted territory. That is what is first up for us though so we will start having some answers here pretty soon

[caughtinflux]

Originally Posted by medphysdave

I'm going to beat this topic to death, but I can't stop thinking about the joys of an improved EDC solution. I'd say I'm an EDC maxi/fanboy. I refuse to give up the functionality for a dedicated set of manually adjustable coilovers. I'm also a fan of OGshark and the fact that he tunes suspension on this platform. I believe that this is super important for getting the most out of a product. When the time comes it is why I've chosen Nitron. I haven't made a purchase yet and my financial circumstance could change at any moment. However, I’m focused on making a set of OGshark nitrons my next upgrade. Since I'm also a fan of these Nitrons I'll share my thoughts and questions here with hope that it helps someone else that is contemplating a suspension upgrade.
I’ve spent more time than I’d care to admit researching compression, rebound, valves, adjustment techniques and BMW EDC. It raises some questions and concerns about my use case and what will fit best. A lot of this won’t be known until the eTron testing is complete. Please correct any of my inaccuracies. I’ve tried to digest a lot and may have misinterpreted some concepts.

1. BMW EDC electronically controls compression and rebound using a number of user inputs to help the car brake sooner and remain level in all driving conditions (Be sure your ride level sensors are adjusted correctly if you’ve lowered your car or messed with the LCAs) The system is adjusting dynamically. We are aware of the 3 user settings.
a. Unknowns: Are the 3 settings starting points and the car can use the entire range of comfort/sport/sport + to adjust, or does each of these settings have a fixed range of adjustment and different weighting applied to the ride leveling logic?

ChatGPT4: In BMW vehicles equipped with Electronic Damper Control (EDC) and multiple suspension settings, such as Comfort, Sport, and Sport+, each setting has its own dynamic range. These ranges are distinct and tailored to specific driving conditions and preferences:
1. Comfort Mode: This setting ensures the most comfortable ride by utilizing a softer range of the suspension's capabilities. It's designed for everyday driving, prioritizing smoothness and comfort over sporty handling.
2. Sport Mode: Sport mode adjusts the suspension to a firmer setting, enhancing the vehicle's dynamics and handling. This mode is suitable for more spirited driving, where tighter control and reduced body roll are desirable.
3. Sport+ Mode: The Sport+ setting further stiffens the suspension, offering the most dynamic and sporty driving experience. It maximizes handling performance, often at the expense of some ride comfort, making it ideal for enthusiastic driving or track conditions.
Each mode uses a specific portion of the suspension's dynamic range, optimized for the intended driving experience. The system does not use the entire range in all settings but adjusts within predetermined limits based on the selected mode.

2. High speed compression seems to be what will control the drivers perception of comfort. Think of hitting manhole covers in a road where they are sunk in a bit. Hard quick hit.

3. Rebound high/low can’t be denied because it controls how the vehicle is set for subsequent bumps. One and done bumps might not exacerbate a poorly tuned rebound. Multiple bumps or rolling undulations will. The latter might be low speed rebound but I’m not sure. I think most dampers 3 way and below are high speed rebound. Low speed rebound seems useful if you have the time to really fine tune on a track, but I don’t see much use on the street. I’m thinking it helps ensure the lifting wheel in a turn remains planted without disrupting the car in a turn or transition. My perception is that most street interactions are high speed when it comes to comfort.

4. Low speed compression is not going to be attributed so much to ride comfort as it will to being able to control body roll from side to side (cornering) and front to back (braking/on throttle). Also how a care transitions in corners is helped with low speed.

5. High speed bleed off adjustment. I can’t see when this would be necessary on a street car unless you hit a manhole and the cover wasn’t there Or really harsh roads that have lots of big, wheel damaging, pot holes.

What does it all mean? How will it all work?

I think we all want to envision and electronic suspension as a computer controlled 5 way damper. The reality is that I think most are a 2 way (BMW EDC, Nitron e-R1) The odd duck is the e-R3 and how it will actually work when paired with EDC.

R3: On a street car I would make the argument that a 3 way damper is going to allow you the best ride comfort for a given spring rate while still allowing the ability to not compromise track day performance. You can dial in the high speed compression to your specific commute. You hit the same bumps and road imperfections every day. Same with the rebound. You can adjust his to your situation. Someone like OGShark that has tuned the dampers on track can give a great starting point for both street and track settings. Likely minimizing or eliminating the need to spend much time on your track day messing with settings.

R1: Seems like this would be the best compromise and choice if you want to optimize for the track and be tolerable for the street. Keep the springs stiff enough for body roll control and most of the valve is a high speed compression/rebound combo.

It seems to me that the E-tron R1 is most closely related to what EDC is used to using. An electronic damper that simultaneously controls compression/rebound. If the E-tron R3 is only controlling rebound electronically, then how is the R3 going to reach synergy with the BMW EDC? It seems to me that it will lose some of its ability to control body roll. The car is going to think it’s adjusting something that it isn’t so it’s only going to be getting half of it’s request. Can ride leveling be controlled by rebound alone when it seems like low speed compression control is what is needed for this.

Counter argument to this is that if your springs are stiff enough, and your high speed and low speed compression are dialed in. How much work is the EDC really going to need to do? Which begs the question. Were all the EDC naysayers correct? Ditch the EDC and get a good 3-way manual damper?

All of this is to say that I’m super curious I can’t wait to see what comes out of the testing. I think there is a chance that the e-R1 comes out on top due to the current performance from the R1, No need for user adjustment, and price. Especially if comfort/sport/sport + can be optimized for different scenarios like street, backroads, track or wet/dry/track. I’m also impatiently hoping that somehow the e-R3 blows us away.

> ChatGPT4: In BMW vehicles equipped

Uhhh…

[Aeko]

Originally Posted by medphysdave

Counter argument to this is that if your springs are stiff enough, and your high speed and low speed compression are dialed in. How much work is the EDC really going to need to do? Which begs the question. Were all the EDC naysayers correct? Ditch the EDC and get a good 3-way manual damper?

Dave, I've had a lot of exactly the same questions especially coming from the perspective of the M2C with the fixed OE dampers and then adding EDC and wondering "was it worth it?"

To answer that question I think the best way to think about EDC vs a 3-way is use case: Any car that sees a lot of track use may be well suited to a 3-way simply because a lot of racing setups are iterative. You run them, tweak, run them, tweak, run them, and eventually you get to a point where you dial out any issues and just drive.

EDC I think is meant more for having the capability to handle ever-changing driving conditions on the road dynamically to suit whatever road and driving situation you're on. Think road trip vs. running a single track. No, it doesn't afford you the ability to maximize exactly what you want the car to be doing, but the tradeoff is letting the computer handle dynamic adjustments means you get some advantages at driving at 7/10ths or less, especially if you're doing only occasional back road or autox stuff.

If you're wanting 8/10ths or up, 3-way is probably the way to go, which I think is why people say ditch EDC. Plus, the "simplicity" of one less electronic system being replaced with manual adjustments fits the ethos of the more higher performance oriented driving.

And also re: your question about what the modes are doing, I tend to think that assumption is correct about the dynamic range of adjustments. One of the first things I noticed, aside from the ride quality being slightly better, when going to EDC was that in S and S+ the nose of the car does not dive hardly at all under hard braking. A lot of the EDC press media preaches about having better grip by dynamically adjusting the settings to the surface you're driving on. Which makes sense, if you're too heavy on any particular setting and the tire can't maintain its contact patch while keeping the car "afloat" that's not ideal. I've been driving on EDC for several months after having had the fixed OE suspension and it's definitely noticeable that there are "ranges" of what the car will do with the different modes depending on how it wants to handle high and low speed.

I don't believe EDC has true high and low speed settings, I believe that it basically PWMs its two-way single adjustment based on the accelerometers to emulate more ideal high and low speed settings as opposed to having a true independent 5 way. So, maybe thinking about it as a four-way single (double?) adjustment might be better.

[medphysdave]

Thanks for the post. I love thinking about this stuff. Because my goal is a very capable DD. I think I'd spend extra on the E-tron R3 even if it was a mild improvement over the R1. I'm think I'm sensitive enough to the subtle difference in the stock modes that I'd be able to siscern the difference. Don't get me wrong. The set and forget of the R1 is appealing. But, with OG shark having a CS to fine tune both options. This means we all get the benefit of this knowledge up front. I'm thinking the R3 will end up adding just enough added adjustment to help dial in each users specific needed. Albeit, at a much increased price point.
The more I think about it the more I can see an electronically controlled rebound handling stability throughout a corner. Entry, mid, and exit. Assuming a dialed in low speed compression and things would be bueno. The high speed compression allows more fine tuning of weight transfer. I think this could be more adaptable to a wide range of modification scenarios.

The stock suspension is crashy over abrupt impacts like sunken manhole covers. If I can dial that out I think the suspension is well worth the price of entry. I'd plan to add remote reservoirs and axle lift.

Dialing in this car allows me to shop for additional vehicles with different focus.

[3t3p]

Repair-O-tron more like. G'luck

[Aeko]

I think the other puzzle piece here that I haven't seen is finding out what can be done with EDC tuning. I don't think anyone has really seriously put much effort into trying to recode the EDC other than on F82 going from base to CS or Comp EDC, etc. There's surely some kind of tables and settings that determine the adjustment behaviors that could be edited, but I imagine that would require specialized software. Without really knowing what conditions the EDC module is trying to adjust to compensate for, that really makes designing the proper setup very trial and error.

Since the VDC module itself is shared between pretty much every M car made from ~2010 to 2020, it should be easy to swap between the profiles to see if one of them is better. I'm not sure if reflashing the software to something like an F22 M240i would work (to change it overall to something softer for example) because it's not the S2VF M-adaptive suspension, it's something else like the basic EDC S223 and only uses the front two accelerometers. We could still use the F8x codings, however.

Side note; the F10 M5 also has 223 and does NOT use any accelerometers. It essentially just does static adjustment of the dampers based on mode afaik. Food for thought.

OG Shark, I just noticed you're actually just down the road from me. If you ever want to compare setups (I'm about to run the B6 Evolve kit) let me know!

[medphysdave]

Bumping for updates

[OG Shark]

Originally Posted by medphysdave

Bumping for updates

Sorry nothing to report yet. Although the test mule is now only 1160 miles from finishing break in!

[medphysdave]

You need to focus

[OG Shark]

Originally Posted by medphysdave

You need to focus

Test mule is undergoing full body ppf right now...then I can resume the break in

[medphysdave]

Nitron piggybank is 10% filled so far.

[n8dgr84]

Can EDC be retrofitted to a non-EDC car?
Can the DCU but retrofitted to an eR1/3?

[OG Shark]

Originally Posted by n8dgr84

Can EDC be retrofitted to a non-EDC car?
Can the DCU but retrofitted to an eR1/3?

Honestly not sure how an EDC retrofit would go - haven't tried that. The Nitron standalone DCU can be incorporated though on any setup using the electron R1/3 kits. I anticipate this to ultimately provide a significant step up as well - will have more preset modes available to select from while driving. Will also have access to custom settings and modes - either through you as the user or I also anticipate generating our own as well.

[medphysdave]

Checking in to see if inertia labs has put these on the shock dyno and if there are any initial impressions?

Are shock dynos programmed to simulate various scenarios or do the only do static tests?

Curious if you can run a series of variable scenarios (high speed corner, curb, potholes, etc.) and compare multiple dampers against each other and an ideal damping solution.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by OG Shark

The EDC adjusts the valving for both rebound and compression. The EDC control when hooked up to the R1 will do the same.



Not yet - I feel like they are going to lag behind a little while the concentrate on getting the first wave of the electron kits out. Will certainly update as I get more info. They will be universal fit so will not have to wait for platform specific applications. And will also be able to be retrofitted.



I agree - the R3 is the wild card right now. I have a pretty good idea what we are going to get with the R1 and believe it will be as good as expected. The R3 however is a bit of uncharted territory. That is what is first up for us though so we will start having some answers here pretty soon

Tractive has had mixed edc/semiactive rebound + conventional manually adjustable compression 3-way dampers for quite sometime. It’s great to have another high-end damper enter the edc market. A lot of people think EDC/semiactive dampers make the ride better and smoother which is not necessarily the case because it’s constantly trying to find the “best” (~0.7-0.8 low speed, ~0.3-0.5 high speed) % of critical damping for each disturbance; i.e., damp out suspension motion as quickly as possible. Quickly and comfort are different objectives in suspension tuning. Even with edc comfort, sport, sport+, they are all still trying to minimize the number of oscillations but with different % critical target values/base damping curves and, therefore, different perceived levels of comfort or control. R1 etron will likely be harsher than people expect it’ll be. Tractive Touring (R1 e-street) and Track/Road (R1 e-standard) options are this way, especially the Road/Track version. If this was the best approach then everyone besides the Porsche guys would be running edc setups. Perhaps it’ll be different for Nitron’s etron dampers. I’ll stick with conventional 2-way and 3-way dampers

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by medphysdave

Checking in to see if inertia labs has put these on the shock dyno and if there are any initial impressions?

Are shock dynos programmed to simulate various scenarios or do the only do static tests?

Curious if you can run a series of variable scenarios (high speed corner, curb, potholes, etc.) and compare multiple dampers against each other and an ideal damping solution.

You’d need a chassis 7 post shaker rig, not a damper dyno, to simulate variable driving conditions/disturbances changing with time. Damper dynos sweep thru damper velocity while simultaneously measuring force at each velocity for fixed R and C settings. Different plots for each different R and C values (voltage or # of clicks).

[medphysdave]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

You’d need a chassis 7 post shaker rig, not a damper dyno, to simulate variable driving conditions/disturbances changing with time. Damper dynos sweep thru damper velocity while simultaneously measuring force at each velocity for fixed R and C settings. Different plots for each different R and C values (voltage or # of clicks).

Does inertia lab have a shaker rig? My guess would be is that it's unnecessary. A skilled shock tuner likely understands what is going on by reading the shock dyno plots. I understand what I'm reading, but I have no reference frame for translating damping/rebound velocity into practical scenarios. Like hitting a sunken manhole covers at 15mph vs 50mph. Or corner transitions.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by medphysdave

Does inertia lab have a shaker rig? My guess would be is that it's unnecessary. A skilled shock tuner likely understands what is going on by reading the shock dyno plots. I understand what I'm reading, but I have no reference frame for translating damping/rebound velocity into practical scenarios. Like hitting a sunken manhole covers at 15mph vs 50mph. Or corner transitions.

No, Inertia Labs doesn’t own one. They are $$$$$! KW owns one along with top teams in the highest levels of professional racing own them. I’m not sure whether all car manufacturers own them and, instead, they’d use for example KW’s rig and extensive knowledge. The entire car is placed on the shaker rig (see below for video and pic). Basically, you can apply loads to the chassis at each wheel to simulate the inputs, bumps, curbs, undulations, etc., of a race track and/or section of road.

Damping calculations:
https://www.chassissim.com/wp-conten...ng%20velocity.

Shaker video:
https://youtu.be/_SPflUyT1rQ?si=JDIrsxXyIux67S_c