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      05-22-2020, 09:56 PM   #177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZM2 View Post
Mount that heavy tank of an IC up and get some logs. We’ll compare.
I’m so tempted to just full send and buy it now, along with the Turbosmart and inlet. I just can’t see how the Wagner Evo 3 would be any better than a bigger denser core. And it’s $800 more expensive.

This quarantine has me saving, but...now I’m getting cold feet!
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      05-22-2020, 10:11 PM   #178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmuroRay View Post
I’m so tempted to just full send and buy it now, along with the Turbosmart and inlet. I just can’t see how the Wagner Evo 3 would be any better than a bigger denser core. And it’s $800 more expensive.

This quarantine has me saving, but...now I’m getting cold feet!
Evo3 is 10lbs lighter, less pressure drop bc of larger inlet & outlets and larger pipes that come with it, more airflow bc of the custom crash bumper, and it mounts to the bumper to make it super solid—something very important for track guys.

And, I have data from one of our pioneering forum members who figured out how to fit this beast to their Stage 2 M2 that shows IAT temp drops in gears 3-4, and only a couple degree rise in 5-6 on 90-95F days. That’s better than the data that CSF, VRSF, or any of the other IC manufacturers have posted.

I wasn’t going to post anything until I get mine on in a cpl weeks and get some data, so we’ll see!

I’m hopeful that this has a big impact on engine temps by pushing much cooler air into the inlet and across the radiator vs the Evo2 Comp. I won’t have on track data for a cpl months, but will get some good street pull data beforehand.
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      05-22-2020, 10:23 PM   #179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZM2 View Post
Evo3 is 10lbs lighter, less pressure drop bc of larger inlet & outlets and larger pipes that come with it, more airflow bc of the custom crash bumper, and it mounts to the bumper to make it super solid—something very important for track guys.

And, I have data from one of our pioneering forum members who figured out how to fit this beast to their Stage 2 M2 that shows IAT temp drops in gears 3-4, and only a couple degree rise in 5-6 on 90-95F days. That’s better than the data that CSF, VRSF, or any of the other IC manufacturers have posted.

I wasn’t going to post anything until I get mine on in a cpl weeks and get some data, so we’ll see!

I’m hopeful that this has a big impact on engine temps by pushing much cooler air into the inlet and across the radiator vs the Evo2 Comp. I won’t have on track data for a cpl months, but will get some good street pull data beforehand.
Uh, that’s false.

https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1322614

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiago@VRSF View Post
We've been bombarded by requests for logs of our new stepped HD Race core and we finally received some logs from one of our customers with a N55. This is currently the largest intercooler available for the Fx N55 and the data is incredibly promising.



The logs were taken in 75 degree temps during a 2-4 gear pull. The initial pull starts at 89 degrees and jumps down to 86 degrees by the end of the run.

Wagner also lies about how big the core is.
Lies about tube and fin construction (it’s cheaper and less dense)
And literally the only thing positive I believe is the it has less pressure loss due to less density.

I’ll wait for the logs, but I’m not a fan of Wagner as a brand at all
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      05-22-2020, 10:26 PM   #180
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For the record, I don’t any VRSF products and that quality control is hit or miss - but $1300 is steep when you’re saving for a house.
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      05-22-2020, 10:52 PM   #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmuroRay View Post
Uh, that’s false.

https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1322614



Wagner also lies about how big the core is.
Lies about tube and fin construction (it’s cheaper and less dense)
And literally the only thing positive I believe is the it has less pressure loss due to less density.

I’ll wait for the logs, but I’m not a fan of Wagner as a brand at all


You’re not reading the data correctly and in the way that really matters.

In VRSF’s own chart it shows about a 5F rise in IAT in 3-4 on a 75F day. Plus, their pull is 2-3-4. Frankly, that’s lame. 4-5-6 creates much more heat than 2-3-4. Their data does not bode well for hot track days when you’re never in 2nd, hardly in 3rd, and mostly in 4-5-6.

Whereas, I have data from the Evo3 on 90-95F days showing IAT drop in 3, stable in 4, and a cpl degree increase in 5-6. This is even with hard braking events between pulls, something none of these IC manufactures ever show!

I’m not brand faithful, I’m solution faithful. From what I’ve seen the VRSF Race won’t hold up compared to the Evo3, but like I said bolt one up and let’s compare some logs!

I could care less if an IC is bar/plate, tube/fin, made of wood, or is a time machine. Whatever cools best without other major sacrifices is what I’m going for. I’m just happy that a fellow forum member had the balls to get one, fit it to his M2, and collect some great data!

Last edited by ZM2; 05-22-2020 at 11:12 PM..
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      05-22-2020, 11:12 PM   #182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZM2 View Post


You’re not reading the data correctly and in the way that really matters.
Lol, this will be good.


Quote:
In VRSF’s own chart it shows about a 5F rise in IAT in 3-4 on a 75F day.
Actually, it shows that the starting temps are lower at the end of the run compared to where it was started.

Quote:
Plus, their pull is 2-3-4. Frankly, that’s lame. 4-5-6 creates much more heat than 2-3-4. Their data does not bode well for hot track days when you’re never in 2nd, hardly in 3rd, and mostly in 4-5-6.
Excuse me for laughing, but I was at 140mph in 4th gear at PBIR, I’m not aware of any tracks outside of VIR that will allow me to hit 5th gear, but automatics may vary.

But compared to how you were arguing a month ago that hitting 140* in every gear was ok, it seems that you have changed your tune. The temp increase is not linear, and it doesn’t mean it will increase by x amount over X time.

Quote:
Whereas, I have data from the Evo3 on 90-95F days showing IAT drop in 3, stable in 4, and a cpl degree increase in 5 and 6. This is even with hard braking events between pulls, something none of these IC manufactures ever show!
Feel free to post it. But it’s impossible for an air to air inter cooler to cool below ambient.







Quote:
I’m not brand faithful, I’m solution faithful. From what I’ve seen the VRSF Race won’t hold up compared to the Evo3, but like I said bolt one up and let’s compare some logs!
Lol, then you haven’t been looking. You argued with me for 2 months about the Evo 2 cooling better than a bar and plate intercooler that was smaller than the Wagner - the facts show that it cooled better. You argued that the bar and plate was inferior in construction, that ‘you cool down faster in the turns with the Wagner’

All false.

I prefer to review the data myself if you don’t mind, I just don’t trust you to be unbiased.
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      05-22-2020, 11:16 PM   #183
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And that’s not a shot at you specifically- but I HATE marketing Hype. I HATE it.

Post the data, let people who know what to look for analyze it.
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      05-22-2020, 11:19 PM   #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmuroRay View Post
Lol, this will be good.



Actually, it shows that the starting temps are lower at the end of the run compared to where it was started.


Excuse me for laughing, but I was at 140mph in 4th gear at PBIR, I’m not aware of any tracks outside of VIR that will allow me to hit 5th gear, but automatics may vary.

But compared to how you were arguing a month ago that hitting 140* in every gear was ok, it seems that you have changed your tune. The temp increase is not linear, and it doesn’t mean it will increase by x amount over X time.


Feel free to post it. But it’s impossible for an air to air inter cooler to cool below ambient.









Lol, then you haven’t been looking. You argued with me for 2 months about the Evo 2 cooling better than a bar and plate intercooler that was smaller than the Wagner - the facts show that it cooled better. You argued that the bar and plate was inferior in construction, that ‘you cool down faster in the turns with the Wagner’

All false.

I prefer to review the data myself if you don’t mind, I just don’t trust you to be unbiased.
You talk a lot of “facts” without contributing any data to the forum. Please try to carry your weight here with everyone else and bring your own data.

The Evo3 data I have is not mine, I was helping a forum member. It’s his call to post. I’ll post my own soon.

Bring your data, and then we’ll see what’s what.
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      05-22-2020, 11:22 PM   #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZM2 View Post
You talk a lot of “facts” without contributing any data to the forum. Please try to carry your weight here with everyone else and bring your own data.

Then we’ll see what’s what.
Everything I said, I’ve backed up. I was the one who corrected you on your own logs you were clearly reading incorrectly, and I was the one who educated you on how intercoolers function.

I have no idea WHY your so stuck on this WE3, (which, 2 months ago you had already admitted that you wanted to buy it over other proven products- because reasons) but to each their own. I’m not going to just let you fabricate nonsense and confuse new members.
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      05-22-2020, 11:28 PM   #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmuroRay View Post
Everything I said, I’ve backed up. I was the one who corrected you on your own logs you were clearly reading incorrectly, and I was the one who educated you on how intercoolers function.

I have no idea WHY your so stuck on this WE3, (which, 2 months ago you had already admitted that you wanted to buy it over other proven products- because reasons) but to each their own. I’m not going to just let you fabricate nonsense and confuse new members.
Blah, blah, you just keep talking. Show your own numbers!

Mine will be up soon enough bc I’m actually putting out the effort and will share with everyone. That’s been the whole point of this thread.
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      05-22-2020, 11:43 PM   #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmuroRay View Post
I looked through the logs, and unless I’m reading wrong -

The Wagner heat up quicker, even after the cool down.
It’s maximum temps were higher than the Dinan almost 10* - though it did have a lower minimum. Once it got to the higher temperatures, it couldn't shed heat fast enough.

And when you think about it, higher average temperatures are never good. Even if it’s lower once, you want the engine to behave in a consistent manner and give you all the power all the time - this intercooler clearly can’t do that. All that marketing about its cools down quicker between turns’ is meaningless, because some turns are a taken at a higher rpm in a lower gear (or should be) and if you’re going slow enough, you’re not getting bough airflow to cool it down.

How big is the dinan cooler?
Do you have track data?
Thank you for posting btw
This is my post to you back in April on this subject. I took the time to explain to you what the data says, I was cordial and attempted to help understand what you’re reading

You’re so focused on marketing and name brand, you can’t even acknowledge when you’re out of your depth.

What are you afraid of man?
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      05-22-2020, 11:45 PM   #188
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Please don’t attempt to shame me, I’ve done more than my share of data collection and sharing of information. In fact, I have something unique no one else has...

But we’ll see what the numbers say when the come.
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      05-22-2020, 11:47 PM   #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmuroRay View Post
This is my post to you back in April on this subject. I took the time to explain to you what the data says, I was cordial and attempted to help understand what you’re reading

You’re so focused on marketing and name brand, you can’t even acknowledge when you’re out of your depth.

What are you afraid of man?
Jesus Christ you don’t know how to read logs. It’s all about IAT delta in each gear, not start & finish temps especially when ambient temps are different bn logs.

Quit polluting this thread until you have your own data to contribute. Come with your own numbers to contribute for everyone else, not a bunch of behind the keyboard analysis. I’ve given a ton of real world data from trying and logging.

Show us the VRSF or something else is better by putting it on your car! None of the IC manu’s are providing heads up track data for comparison. It’s up to us to vet.

Last edited by ZM2; 05-23-2020 at 12:05 AM..
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      05-23-2020, 12:04 AM   #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZM2 View Post
Jesus Christ you don’t know how to read logs. It’s all about IAT delta in each gear, not start & finish temps especially when ambient temps are different bn logs.
Nothing that I posted was false or incorrect. The Wagner got hotter and stayed hotter longer than the Dinan unit, and that’s a fact. Prove me wrong.

Hot is hot.
Quote:
Quit polluting this thread until you have your own data to contribute. Come with your own numbers to contribute for everyone else, not a bunch of behind the keyboard analysis. I’ve given a ton of real world data from trying and logging.

Show us the VRSF or something else is better!
You mean like the 2 screenshots of the VRSF logs I already posted? Or would you like me to link the IC thread we had this conversation in, where I posted 3 different IC cores that all outperformed the Evo 2.

I’ll wait on that data.
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      05-23-2020, 12:07 AM   #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmuroRay View Post
Nothing that I posted was false or incorrect. The Wagner got hotter and stayed hotter longer than the Dinan unit, and that’s a fact. Prove me wrong.

Hot is hot.


You mean like the 2 screenshots of the VRSF logs I already posted? Or would you like me to link the IC thread we had this conversation in, where I posted 3 different IC cores that all outperformed the Evo 2.

I’ll wait on that data.
We’re waiting on your own data.
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      06-03-2020, 07:13 PM   #192
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Any updates on the Evo III?
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      06-03-2020, 07:52 PM   #193
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Originally Posted by bimmer ///man View Post
Any updates on the Evo III?
Getting installed now along with some other parts. Hopeful to get some logs this weekend.
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      06-04-2020, 05:45 PM   #194
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Looking forward to it! Hoping it is successful as it seems to be the most well put together package
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      06-04-2020, 08:36 PM   #195
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Originally Posted by bimmer ///man View Post
Looking forward to it! Hoping it is successful as it seems to be the most well put together package
The quality of the parts were top notch when I was unpacking them into my trunk. The box it comes in is huge—no way it fits in the car!

And, the fact that it bolts to the bumper makes it a much more attractive option to me for the track, vs other heavier FMIC’s that just kind of sit there upfront with a couple bolts.

We’re doing several other things (Pure inlet, Turbosmart BOV, Dorch HPFP, NGK plugs, aFe filter, and 300V oil), so my mechanic is taking his time and I’m hoping it will all be buttoned up tomorrow!
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      06-05-2020, 08:24 AM   #196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZM2 View Post
The quality of the parts were top notch when I was unpacking them into my trunk. The box it comes in is huge—no way it fits in the car!

And, the fact that it bolts to the bumper makes it a much more attractive option to me for the track, vs other heavier FMIC’s that just kind of sit there upfront with a couple bolts.

We’re doing several other things (Pure inlet, Turbosmart BOV, Dorch HPFP, NGK plugs, aFe filter, and 300V oil), so my mechanic is taking his time and I’m hoping it will all be buttoned up tomorrow!
Excited to see how you like it!

Works been keeping me from that damn Evo3 write up as of late.

Curious to hear about the Dorch unit!
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      06-05-2020, 10:21 AM   #197
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Originally Posted by GerardzM View Post
Excited to see how you like it!

Works been keeping me from that damn Evo3 write up as of late.

Curious to hear about the Dorch unit!
GerardzM Just saw your Evo3 Comp thread go up.

Thanks again for your install notes, and I'll post up my data in your thread and here to see how the reduction in IATs impacts engine temps.
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      08-07-2020, 10:09 PM   #198
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ZM2

Did you ever solve you high coolant temps? Because I was thinking about your situation recently compared to other m2 owners (reasonably capable track drivers) who are on the stock radiator with a tune and turbo upgrade and had no real heat issues, and I wondered how did you bleed your CSF radiator? Did you bleed it with the standard low beams on, max heater temp, and pedal to the floor for a couple of seconds until the coolant pump activated? Or did you bleed with a pneumatic bleeder that bmw recommends. Because if you did the former then you may have bubbles trapped in the CSF radiator which may have inhibited the full potential of the CSF radiator. If not then I suppose the CSF radiator is really not up to the task of cooling a modded m2, and the race spec version is probably needed.

I'm just bringing this up because I wanted to do a coolant bleed myself this summer and when I looked through the TIS I noticed a pneumatic vacumn bleeder was required and due to the pandemic these things are hard to get right now locally so I am postponing this whole coolant bleeding thing until next year.
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