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      01-16-2020, 05:39 PM   #1
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Mixed Performance Tires

Ok, forgive me if this has been beaten to death, but I really want to explore this more. I bought my M2 in the dead of winter and of course want to drive it (and have been because of this mild winter), but am curious about the Mixed Performance tires our M2Cs come with. I assumed these were summer tires, but the other day I clicked on the tire guide on the BMW configurator and was sent to this link:

https://www.bmwusa.com/build-your-ow...xterior/wheels

As you'll see under the performance column its says "Mixed Performance tire available for everyday driving". Doesnt say summer or driving in warm weather only.

I know most of us BMW guys associate mixed tires with a staggered setup, but this page seems to imply this is a higher performing tire, but may be suited for all seasons? I have the Michelin PSS on my car.

Happy to get everyone's thoughts on this subject. I've been driving my M2C, but only when it is >40 outside.
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      01-16-2020, 09:05 PM   #2
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The PSS tires are NOT all-seasons. You're doing the right thing avoiding cold temps. Be really cautious if you are caught in freezing temps. And if there is any amount of snow, you'd better be wearing a diaper, because there is going to be some kind of accident.
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      01-16-2020, 11:00 PM   #3
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all season is a marketing term for tires. Just drive snow/summer tires for all around performance, otherwise why did you get a car to compromise so hard?
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      01-17-2020, 08:25 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spetsnazos View Post
all season is a marketing term for tires. Just drive snow/summer tires for all around performance, otherwise why did you get a car to compromise so hard?
Not compromising, was just wondering about this lingo
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      01-17-2020, 08:39 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supernaut View Post
The PSS tires are NOT all-seasons. You're doing the right thing avoiding cold temps. Be really cautious if you are caught in freezing temps. And if there is any amount of snow, you'd better be wearing a diaper, because there is going to be some kind of accident.
Yes, I looked at the Michelin tire description and its pretty clear these are summers. I wont drive her below 40, I have other cars I can use. Its just that watching her sitting in the garage and begging to be driven is hard
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      01-17-2020, 09:13 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigKutta View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Supernaut View Post
The PSS tires are NOT all-seasons. You're doing the right thing avoiding cold temps. Be really cautious if you are caught in freezing temps. And if there is any amount of snow, you'd better be wearing a diaper, because there is going to be some kind of accident.
Yes, I looked at the Michelin tire description and its pretty clear these are summers. I wont drive her below 40, I have other cars I can use. Its just that watching her sitting in the garage and begging to be driven is hard
You are torturing her ... put snows on and let her play
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      01-17-2020, 10:09 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigKutta View Post
Yes, I looked at the Michelin tire description and its pretty clear these are summers. I wont drive her below 40, I have other cars I can use. Its just that watching her sitting in the garage and begging to be driven is hard
I drive my M2C on the OEM Michelin Summer tires any dry winter day I like. There is nothing wrong with this. They don't have as much mechanical traction as when the surface temps reach say 50 degrees+.

The lingo the tire CO's use now is to cover their asses in case our happy loose ligation society tries to sue them for an accident.

I drove the car to the dealership this AM and it was 12 degrees out. Even drove it briskly on a side road.
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      01-17-2020, 10:14 AM   #8
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I drive my M2 almost every day with stock Conti tires. It sits if there is snow on the streets but that hardly ever happens. You just need to be aware that in colder temperatures braking distance increases.
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      01-17-2020, 03:08 PM   #9
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BMW seems to classify the Pilot Super Sport as a "mixed performance tire" and the Sport Cup 2 as a "high performance tire"

Doesn't mean the PSS should be used in mixed weather conditions.

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      01-20-2020, 07:18 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigKutta View Post
Not compromising, was just wondering about this lingo
all season as a marketing term was coined by goodyear. Ever since then, Americans have been obsessed with the idea. They expect solid dry, wet and SNOW/ICE performance which is beyond absurd. The hysteresis of the summer tire is drastically different from a snow tire. The tread depth and block pattern alone should be a dead giveaway for non tire nerds.

People in EMEA figured this out and drive on summer/winter sets of tire respectively.

Americans, were suckers for the all season marketing sale.
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      01-20-2020, 08:41 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spetsnazos View Post
all season as a marketing term was coined by goodyear. Ever since then, Americans have been obsessed with the idea. They expect solid dry, wet and SNOW/ICE performance which is beyond absurd. The hysteresis of the summer tire is drastically different from a snow tire. The tread depth and block pattern alone should be a dead giveaway for non tire nerds.

People in EMEA figured this out and drive on summer/winter sets of tire respectively.

Americans, were suckers for the all season marketing sale.
We call them no-season tires. I hate them.

Summer tires for Summer, and Winter tires for Winter (if you get ice and snow).
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      01-22-2020, 07:58 PM   #12
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It's a massive misconception all season tires are 'no season' tires. Maybe they were once but tire compounds have come a long way in the last 10 years.

A set of Michelin AS/3+ feel very similar to PSS and PS4S on the street, lots of grip, communicate nicely when they are at the edge of traction. The only area they will really struggle is heat management, but put PSS on track after 2 laps they have the same problem. I have driven AS/3+ very aggressively on the street with lots of hard braking and it took a while before they started to overheat.

On a cold day near freezing or below they are far superior to PSS in terms of grip, and are way more responsive than any set of winter tires. Similarly they are great in the rain. Their all round capability really isn't matched by any other tire IMO. Allows you to still have fun with your car in winter at or below freezing temps with very little loss of performance.
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      01-22-2020, 09:53 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Montaver View Post
It's a massive misconception all season tires are 'no season' tires. Maybe they were once but tire compounds have come a long way in the last 10 years.

A set of Michelin AS/3+ feel very similar to PSS and PS4S on the street, lots of grip, communicate nicely when they are at the edge of traction. The only area they will really struggle is heat management, but put PSS on track after 2 laps they have the same problem. I have driven AS/3+ very aggressively on the street with lots of hard braking and it took a while before they started to overheat.

On a cold day near freezing or below they are far superior to PSS in terms of grip, and are way more responsive than any set of winter tires. Similarly they are great in the rain. Their all round capability really isn't matched by any other tire IMO. Allows you to still have fun with your car in winter at or below freezing temps with very little loss of performance.
I like your enthusiasm but no. Having seen these tires perform back to back(with brand new sets between runs) with instrumented data collection, there’s a chasm of a difference between all season and snow/summer tires.

Have you ever seen all season tires on the std snow traction test? Have you ever driven all seasons on ICE?

Try this simple test but make sure to swap tires onto the same rim(obvs same car too):
- Rent an indoor ice rink and get a bit of insurance
- Get up to 15 mph then hit the brakes and observe the stopping distance
- Please use something remotely scientific to measure the vehicle velocity.
- Take a stop watch and observe the time from 15 mph to 0 mph
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      01-22-2020, 10:03 PM   #14
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Clearly winter tires are superior in ice and snow, you completely missed the point of my post...

Look forward to seeing the data which shows an AS/3+ is inferior in any given situation, wet/dry, hot/cold.
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      01-22-2020, 10:31 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Montaver View Post
Clearly winter tires are superior in ice and snow, you completely missed the point of my post...

Look forward to seeing the data which shows an AS/3+ is inferior in any given situation, wet/dry, hot/cold.
I don’t work for a tire company anymore and if I did I still wouldn’t be authorized to share the data.

The best way i can describe this is through a spider chart. If you pull one node out, you ultimately pull other node/s in.

You can imagine that tire compounds are improving to the point of magic but it’s not magic. You have various quantities of synthetic/natural rubber where it makes sense mixed with carbon black and other oils.

Michelin is the leader in the tire industry, you won’t get any pushback here, but they’re not magicians. It’s designed and built by mechanical/chemical engineers.

Engineering is not magic I promise.
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