[M2guru]

Been doing a little research and thought I would share a couple interesting links related to airbags, head & neck devices, and helmets:

http://aimss.com.au/helmet-airbag-in...on-full-story/
http://trackpedia.winhpde.com/wiki/H...eck_Restraints

[ZM2]

A proper HANS setup requires at least a four point belt and roll cage. Otherwise, your neck can get snapped if the roof caves in on roll over and the belts don’t have any give, like street belts do.

[M2guru]

Every accident is different, but I feel like a HANS with no roll cage is safer than no HANS with no roll cage. It's probably more likely that a person would have an accident where a HANS will help than it is likely being in a accident where the harness will cause my neck to snap. Their information states "Now you don't have to spend $3,000 on a Rollbar, seats and 6 point harnesses." So it feels like they have taken that into consideration. The QuickFit Pro has ASM technology that also might help my body lean to the side helping my neck a little bit - perhaps that the technology that will save the $3,000 they claim. I hope I don't have to find out.

[PLF69]

I've been on the fence with replacing my regular quick-fit with the pro version and buying a true hans compatible helmet and hybrid device because of the danger in a rollover.

As of now my regular quick-fit is clearly used only to keep me in the seat even if I am aware it adds to the risks in a rollover..

I'm not against adding a cage to the M2 but it defeats the point of having a 4 seat car. If I can't use them anymore I might be better off switching to a Cayman or the new Supra then scrapping the usefullness of the M2..

[ZM2]

I hear ya, but in a car with a ton of airbags (most importantly the one in the steering wheel), I don’t think a HANS is needed. I didn’t watch, but did any of those vids say airbags were less effective with just a helmet and no HANS, or was it just open vs closed face?

BMW doesn’t even use helmets in its M classes. That’s slightly more controlled than DE’s, but some of the instructors will let you go all out if you push them, including my time on the Ring last year.

Race cars = HANS for me. And everyone tends to stick to HANS vs the hybrid setups bc if one of us mess up and forget our HANS after they’re in the car, you can snap someone else’s on real quick. Happens at least once a year.

[PLF69]

Very good point, then I would like to ask the question if a regular quick-fit with no Hans device would be more dangerous then no harness at all ?

Maybe its just me but If I wear my harness real tight, I see it blocking me from having full airbag protection and snaping my neck ?

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by PLF69

Very good point, then I would like to ask the question if a regular quick-fit with no Hans device would be more dangerous then no harness at all ?

Maybe its just me but If I wear my harness real tight, I see it blocking me from having full airbag protection and snaping my neck ?

Those are definitely arguments against a racing harness in a street car, but I think some of the quick fits have a little give like street belts. Altho, they still don’t let your body rotate down and inward to get your head below a crushed roofline.

This has been a debate in the DE community for a while, but no one has ponied up to do crash testing to know for sure.

[M2guru]

The "give" seems to relate more to ASM (antisubmarine) more than anything related to turning the torso during a crash. This video seems to have been created when technicolor was invented, but it does seem to provide some information:

The reason I was doing research was because I am beginning buyers remorse regarding a HANS I purchased but haven't received yet...thinking that with the M2's airbag, the HANS will do next to nothing for me. I have a 92 Eclipse with no airbag so I might use the HANS with that, but then I'll have to put the cage and harness back in (which I sold a while ago). I am still trying to decide which car I want to track mostly, but I bought the HANS anyway...

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by M2guru

The "give" seems to relate more to ASM (antisubmarine) more than anything related to turning the torso during a crash. This video seems to have been created when technicolor was invented, but it does seem to provide some information:

The reason I was doing research was because I am beginning buyers remorse regarding a HANS I purchased but haven't received yet...thinking that with the M2's airbag, the HANS will do next to nothing for me. I have a 92 Eclipse with no airbag so I might use the HANS with that, but then I'll have to put the cage and harness back in (which I sold a while ago). I am still trying to decide which car I want to track mostly, but I bought the HANS anyway...

Thanks for the vid. Buyers remorse? You just got a good excuse to spend more money!

I’d keep the M2 as a daily & DE machine and turn the Eclipse back into a race car, or find an E36 race car for cheap. Running costs on those are pretty low and are just as fast as an M2 around the track.

[CosmosMpower]

Originally Posted by PLF69

I've been on the fence with replacing my regular quick-fit with the pro version and buying a true hans compatible helmet and hybrid device because of the danger in a rollover.

As of now my regular quick-fit is clearly used only to keep me in the seat even if I am aware it adds to the risks in a rollover..

I'm not against adding a cage to the M2 but it defeats the point of having a 4 seat car. If I can't use them anymore I might be better off switching to a Cayman or the new Supra then scrapping the usefullness of the M2..

Yes definitely get the pro version and get a true HANS compatible helmet. Hybrid device vs. hans, not much difference just preference.

[CosmosMpower]

Originally Posted by PLF69

Very good point, then I would like to ask the question if a regular quick-fit with no Hans device would be more dangerous then no harness at all ?

Maybe its just me but If I wear my harness real tight, I see it blocking me from having full airbag protection and snaping my neck ?

Yes if you're not going to run a HANS at least get the quick fit pro so one side will give way and the whole thing will act as a 3 point if you crash. It's plain crazy to wear a traditional style harness without a HANS.

[chief1richard]

I was at Palmer last week-end with my son for 2 track days. His instructor took him for a session out in his '05' WRX. In the middle of turn 9 his 5 spoke right front wheel completely failed where the 5 spokes meet the wheel. They went through 2 Tire wall barriers and hit the wall at 45 degrees at 100+ mph. Car totaled, but both were wearing HANS Devices, and were OK. The first I learned about it was when I was resting in PIT area, and his totaled WRX rolled by on a Flat Bed truck in front of me!

[PLF69]

Originally Posted by chief1richard

I was at Palmer last week-end with my son for 2 track days. His instructor took him for a session out in his '05' WRX. In the middle of turn 9 his 5 spoke right front wheel completely failed where the 5 spokes meet the wheel. They went through 2 Tire wall barriers and hit the wall at 45 degrees at 100+ mph. Car totaled, but both were wearing HANS Devices, and were OK. The first I learned about it was when I was resting in PIT area, and his totaled WRX rolled by on a Flat Bed truck in front of me!

Was the car equiped with a roll cage/bar ?

[M2guru]

Originally Posted by chief1richard

I was at Palmer last week-end with my son for 2 track days. His instructor took him for a session out in his '05' WRX. In the middle of turn 9 his 5 spoke right front wheel completely failed where the 5 spokes meet the wheel. They went through 2 Tire wall barriers and hit the wall at 45 degrees at 100+ mph. Car totaled, but both were wearing HANS Devices, and were OK. The first I learned about it was when I was resting in PIT area, and his totaled WRX rolled by on a Flat Bed truck in front of me!

Glad to hear that everyone is OK! If you have any information about their opinions regarding Hans and the air bag situation, that'd be good to hear about - like if they felt pressure from the hans or from the bag type of thing. I'd be surprised if they knew or remember given the circumstances, but doesn't hurt for me to ask. :-)

[chief1richard]

Originally Posted by PLF69

Was the car equiped with a roll cage/bar ?

Yes, the car had a roll bar.

[omasou]

https://www.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...php?p=21340910

[chief1richard]

Originally Posted by M2guru

Glad to hear that everyone is OK! If you have any information about their opinions regarding Hans and the air bag situation, that'd be good to hear about - like if they felt pressure from the hans or from the bag type of thing. I'd be surprised if they knew or remember given the circumstances, but doesn't hurt for me to ask. :-)

He actually has a video which I will see if I can post it. In regards to the air bags, they did not go off. He believes the previous owner disconnected them. The instructor had just bought the WRX 1 week earlier, and was a dedicated Track Car. They were both wearing Hans Hybrid harnesses, and after market racing seats. The car had a Roll Bar.

[dvas]

Originally Posted by chief1richard

I was at Palmer last week-end with my son for 2 track days. His instructor took him for a session out in his '05' WRX. In the middle of turn 9 his 5 spoke right front wheel completely failed where the 5 spokes meet the wheel. They went through 2 Tire wall barriers and hit the wall at 45 degrees at 100+ mph. Car totaled, but both were wearing HANS Devices, and were OK. The first I learned about it was when I was resting in PIT area, and his totaled WRX rolled by on a Flat Bed truck in front of me!

Wow, glad to hear everyone was ok. Palmer is one of my favorite tracks but definitely not a track where you want to have a major off.

[chief1richard]

Originally Posted by dvas

Wow, glad to hear everyone was ok. Palmer is one of my favorite tracks but definitely not a track where you want to have a major off.

Thanks, It's one of my favorite tracks too, but those Granite walls make me nervous.

[M2guru]

Another video...I wish they'd address the airbag vs. HANS question... https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=691_FgzuKaI

[Proctor750]

I'll probably just get a Hybrid S to use with stock belts. The car is not a tin can like the E30 which is fully caged, halo seat, fire suppression, center and window nets, Hans Pro with Hans compatible belts etc etc.

It's a street car which is quite safe - the Hybrid S will give a little extra neck protection albeit by bracing it against your own body. Seem like the most logical solution.


https://simpsonraceproducts.com/hybr...lt-compatible/

50% reduction in neck tension and is designed to work with stock 3 point belt along with airbags still active.


Also - M2C seats make quickfit a no-go

[CosmosMpower]

Originally Posted by PLF69

I've been on the fence with replacing my regular quick-fit with the pro version and buying a true hans compatible helmet and hybrid device because of the danger in a rollover.

As of now my regular quick-fit is clearly used only to keep me in the seat even if I am aware it adds to the risks in a rollover..

I'm not against adding a cage to the M2 but it defeats the point of having a 4 seat car. If I can't use them anymore I might be better off switching to a Cayman or the new Supra then scrapping the usefullness of the M2..

Do it, unless you don't think your life is worth a few hundred dollars. I ran the pro in my 17 M2 with a Schroth FLEX and it was great.