[shawnsheridan]

Originally Posted by bdon_

Updated to F020-17-07-507
...
Huge thanks to shawnsheridan and cookiesowns for help along the way!

[blackholescion]

Originally Posted by bdon_

Updated to F020-17-07-507

I can't comment too much about performance improvements, but I immediately noticed that the reverse camera and sensor beeping now immediately shuts off when pulling it out of reverse (manual in my case). Used to stay on and beep forever unless I moved the car forward or shut off the engine. So, that annoyance is sorted at least.

Really? This might be worth the flash for this alone.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by bdon_

Updated to F020-17-07-507

I can't comment too much about performance improvements, but I immediately noticed that the reverse camera and sensor beeping now immediately shuts off when pulling it out of reverse (manual in my case). Used to stay on and beep forever unless I moved the car forward or shut off the engine. So, that annoyance is sorted at least.

Exhaust sounds, crackles, and pops, happen just a bit differently than I'm used to. Not better or worse really. Sport+ seems a tad louder, more like MDM (traction) mode. This may all change as the car adapts.

I'm DINAN P2, so I may not fully notice any supposed performance improvements as it's already quite tuned.

Lastly, Apple CarPlay is more responsive on input from the iDrive controller wheel. I used to occasionally have lag and then it would scroll all at once to catch up.

I'll update if i notice more changes or refinements.

Huge thanks to shawnsheridan and cookiesowns for help along the way!

@1M Tex looks like u need to get an update to M2 for Joy !

Nice to see that they have a fix for that beeping

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by blackholescion

Really? This might be worth the flash for this alone.

it absolutely is. Omg.

[cookiesowns]

Originally Posted by stefan

Please... don't compare a car to a cellphone. Do I really need to get into standards, safety, operating conditions, combustion, marketing, expectations, reliability, cost, etc etc etc etc etc

I think ISTEP firmware will make changes to the idrive system or menus or maybe even lighting/electronics. But engine maps? Timing and boost? No.

It's pretty obvious ISTEP firmware flashes the engine maps... why the DME is completely re-written, occasionally even with a new boot loader. Behavior of the motor is also quite drastically changed depending on which model, and the age of the firmware.

For example our X3 running 2011 flashed to 2017 has a completely different cold start and warm/hot start behavior now.

Originally Posted by bdon_

Updated to F020-17-07-507
...

Exhaust sounds, crackles, and pops, happen just a bit differently than I'm used to. Not better or worse really. Sport+ seems a tad louder, more like MDM (traction) mode. This may all change as the car adapts.


Lastly, Apple CarPlay is more responsive on input from the iDrive controller wheel. I used to occasionally have lag and then it would scroll all at once to catch up.

...
Huge thanks to shawnsheridan and cookiesowns for help along the way!

You're very welcome dude! Yup those were the changes I noticed during my first ISTEP flash. MDM burbles are insane when the car is cold though It mellows out after some adaptations.

[stefan]

Originally Posted by cookiesowns

It's pretty obvious ISTEP firmware flashes the engine maps... why the DME is completely re-written, occasionally even with a new boot loader. Behavior of the motor is also quite drastically changed depending on which model, and the age of the firmware.

For example our X3 running 2011 flashed to 2017 has a completely different cold start and warm/hot start behavior now.

You're very welcome dude! Yup those were the changes I noticed during my first ISTEP flash. MDM burbles are insane when the car is cold though It mellows out after some adaptations.

Interesting. Though the cold start issue is an emissions change related to aggressively warming the cat iirc. Change to boost or timing seems super unlikely and risky considering the capacity of the stock turbo. Off throttle behavior like pops and such from fuelling or what not that does seem like something they would change. But performance related attiributes in the tune?

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by stefan

Interesting. Though the cold start issue is an emissions change related to aggressively warming the cat iirc. Change to boost or timing seems super unlikely and risky considering the capacity of the stock turbo. Off throttle behavior like pops and such from fuelling or what not that does seem like something they would change. But performance related attiributes in the tune?

I have zero idea why you maintain this.

Consider that a FIRMWARE update can completely change the DSP and surround processing maps on a high end PREAMP.


It seems that you feel that BMW simply doesn't update their code ?

[stefan]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

I have zero idea why you maintain this.

Consider that a FIRMWARE update can completely change the DSP and surround processing maps on a high end PREAMP.

Because it would undermine engineering tolerances established in the motor (the most expensive and highest stress component in the vehicle) and confirmed by long term testing and stress testing. Whereas a change to some audio setting is utterly trivial.

Do you really think BMW left power on the table with the N55? Enough that it would result in a substantial, not minor, boost change?

Why do YOU maintain this?

I'll accept literally any quantitative evidence to support a non trivial change to the tune. Before and after videos, dyno, a race between two cars of different versions etc . anything.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by stefan

Because it would undermine engineering tolerances established in the motor (the most expensive and highest stress component in the vehicle) and confirmed by long term testing and stress testing. Whereas a change to some audio setting is utterly trivial.

Do you really think BMW left power on the table with the N55? Enough that it would result in a substantial, not minor, boost change?

Why do YOU maintain this?

I'll accept literally any quantitative evidence to support this.

Because if BMW " left power on the table" in the beginning.. don't you think that they might decide to go ahead and unlock a little more ?

Apparently long term testing and stress testing is only done ONCE and never ever is an update made? No DEVELOPMENT occurs?

PARTICULARLY when/if they have an S55 COMPETITION package coming out.. and every EARLY owner will complain " but I don't have XXX hp " ?


if BMW limits their boost to X psi and decides to go ahead and increase the boost slightly.. a simple firmware update with an update to the MAX PSI setting is all that need be changed with ZERO update to the rest of physical components of the vehicle. As a matter of fact.. the actual parameters of the tune itself need NOT be changed... And they know the motor will be ok because they already have tested the update in house. Who knows better than BMW themselves how much headroom they designed into the motor and tuning?


So.. now that I have explained how Engineering tolerances will not be undermined as above.. got anything else?


Either way... it's WELL known that BMW has been updating the code for things like

1 - electric power steering
2- M differential characteristics
3- idle characteristics
4- Idrive updates
5- Bluetooth and comfort access updates

etc


If you want a definitive answer on this.. maybe try calling a BMW genius? I am sure that even if a BMW genius told you, that you would still have doubts.

Another thing you could do is contact an aftermarket tuner and ask them if they update THEIR tune over time... ?

[akkando]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

Because if BMW " left power on the table" in the beginning.. don't you think that they might decide to go ahead and unlock a little more ?

No I don't think they would? Why? What's in it for them? The M2 VS whatever comparison reviews were done in 2016. BMW isn't promoting it if they did so no positive marketing or word of mouth saying oh the new M2s and updated old M2s are now more competitive with its competitors.

There is a cost to have to retest the vehicle in terms of time and money. What if it increases warranty claims even slightly? How is that worth it for BMW if practically no one is even going to know they upped the power?

Also when they compare the M2 Competition to the N55 M2 next year the Competition will look like LESS of an upgrade if they bump the power on the N55 M2.

So what's in it for BMW to up the boost on the N55 M2? Just seems like it's a bunch of time and money for nothing. All this and then BMW just keeps it a secret? Seems strange.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by akkando

No I don't think they would? Why? What's in it for them? The M2 VS whatever comparison reviews were done in 2016. BMW isn't promoting it if they did so no positive marketing or word of mouth saying oh the new M2s and updated old M2s are now more competitive with its competitors.

There is a cost to have to retest the vehicle in terms of time and money. What if it increases warranty claims even slightly? How is that worth it for BMW if practically no one is even going to know they upped the power?

Also when they compare the M2 Competition to the N55 M2 next year the Competition will look like LESS of an upgrade if they bump the power on the N55 M2.

So what's in it for BMW to up the boost on the N55 M2? Just seems like it's a bunch of time and money for nothing. All this and then BMW just keeps it a secret? Seems strange.

As far as cost to retest....? what cost? the physical parts haven't changed? What retest?

VOLKSWAGEN put code into their vehicles to make them behave differently for an EPA test... and then... didn't tell anyone..

https://blog.caranddriver.com/everyt...sions-scandal/

In the test mode, the cars are fully compliant with all federal emissions levels. But when driving normally, the computer switches to a separate mode—significantly changing the fuel pressure, injection timing, exhaust-gas recirculation, and, in models with AdBlue, the amount of urea fluid sprayed into the exhaust.

PLEASE OH PLEASE @Stefan tell me.. how could they do this without undermining engineering tolerances established in the motor (the most expensive and highest stress component in the vehicle)

BMW actually improving the vehicle over time.. Seems Strange.. (to you and stefan ). but sure doesn't make it Impossible..

[akkando]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

As far as cost to retest....? what cost? the physical parts haven't changed? What retest?

VOLKSWAGEN put code into their vehicles to make them behave differently for an EPA test... and then... didn't tell anyone..

https://blog.caranddriver.com/everyt...sions-scandal/

In the test mode, the cars are fully compliant with all federal emissions levels. But when driving normally, the computer switches to a separate mode—significantly changing the fuel pressure, injection timing, exhaust-gas recirculation, and, in models with AdBlue, the amount of urea fluid sprayed into the exhaust.

PLEASE OH PLEASE @Stefan tell me.. how could they do this without undermining engineering tolerances established in the motor (the most expensive and highest stress component in the vehicle)

BMW actually improving the vehicle over time.. Seems Strange.. (to you and stefan ). but sure doesn't make it Impossible..

Yea, the cost to change something and retest it. I don't make cars for a living so I don't know all of the legalities, rules, and regulations but I work in software for a living and that software even with bugs WONT kill anyone and we STILL commit time and money testing any of our changes before they go to customers. Often times we won't even make a change to improve things because it seems too risky without a lot of testing time and we would rather spend our resources developing new products rather than changing old ones. For us to improve an old product it has to be worth our effort, and the older the product is, the less we want to spend time and money on it for little to no gain.

[BAN_M2C]

Originally Posted by bdon_

I immediately noticed that the reverse camera and sensor beeping now immediately shuts off when pulling it out of reverse (manual in my case).

Wait what!!??? This really caught my attention. I struggle with this since I sometimes park and leave my girl in the car while I grab something from the store or gas station. And because of my front lip I ALWAYS back up into parking spots so I leave here in the car with the beeping and it drives her crazy

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by BAN_M2

Wait what!!??? This really caught my attention. I struggle with this since I sometimes park and leave my girl in the car while I grab something from the store or gas station. And because of my front lip I ALWAYS back up into parking spots so I leave here in the car with the beeping and it drives her crazy

Yep. experiencing that horrible beeping is enough to keep the exec pack OFF the list of options. I also reverse into parking spots.

Thankfully this flaw as well as the dash lighting flaw have been remedied by BMW.

BMW making these updates is just like a cellular phone maker choosing to update their Operating system.

[BAN_M2C]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

Yep. experiencing that horrible beeping is enough to keep the exec pack OFF the list of options. This flaw as well as the dash lighting flaw have been remedied by BMW.

I need to read up again. What lighting? The dash visibility you mean? They also corrected this?

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by BAN_M2

I need to read up again. What lighting? The dash visibility you mean? They also corrected this?

That one is a hardware problem so... not so easily available

[BAN_M2C]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

That one is a hardware problem so... not so easily available

Dude! You got my hopes up

Thought they had finally pulled the trigger on having the dash lights on all the time.

I can't believe nobody has been able to code that yet..

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by akkando

Yea, the cost to change something and retest it. I don't make cars for a living so I don't know all of the legalities, rules, and regulations but I work in software for a living and that software even with bugs WONT kill anyone and we STILL commit time and money testing any of our changes before they go to customers. Often times we won't even make a change to improve things because it seems too risky without a lot of testing time and we would rather spend our resources developing new products rather than changing old ones. For us to improve an old product it has to be worth our effort, and the older the product is, the less we want to spend time and money on it for little to no gain.

Correct. And thank you for response, I'm not a software engineer but I know enough to be dangerous!

Here is the reason why BMW can and could continue to make incremental power improvements to a vehicle.

BMW already has the data regarding tolerances from their design. Particularly with regard to boost parameters. If BMW sets boost at say 5psi but in their testing of the platform they over engineered it to run at 10psi.. then as BMW gets data BACK from vehicles in the form of service visits, they can decide to INCREASE or DECREASE parameters to get the reliability they want !

Let's say that they have 5000 vehicles on the road and they have all driven 20,000 miles. All the data from this can be used to determine a failure rate. If the failure rate is extremely low , then why can't they incrementally add .5 or even 1psi boost updates and continue to watch reliability ?

Conversely if they find that reliability is incredibly LOW then they may dial BACK the boost parameters .. the fact that the customer is encouraged to get warranty service for two, three, and even four years provides BMW with all the data they need !

As you mention, once the item is of a certain age, it may make sense to discontinue development or changes. The end of the warranty period basically means the updates stop if the customer begins to service the vehicle elsewhere!


stefan does this make sense ?

Just like the VW example above , just think of the way the manufacturer can adjust for and control reliability and/or performance of vehicles IN THE FIELD!

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by BAN_M2

Dude! You got my hopes up

Thought they had finally pulled the trigger on having the dash lights on all the time.

I can't believe nobody has been able to code that yet..

That is the beauty ( and also frustration ) of the digital age.

Coding or firmware updates for the win.

[M3 Adjuster]

@stefan and akkando

http://www.automobilemag.com/news/bm...dyno-test/amp/

Here is some good info including DYNO charts from multiple versions of the N54 and N55

"The end result? We can finally and directly compare an early N54, late N54, high-output N54, and an N55. "

You will have to review the multiple articles but iirc It's pretty clear that automobile magazine found differences in the early and late N54 to speak of them separately from the N54B30TO that was in the 1M and 135is and z435is.

The key thing they found with the n54 and N55 was incremental improvements. #Development ?!?

[stefan]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

Correct. And thank you for response, I'm not a software engineer but I know enough to be dangerous!

Here is the reason why BMW can and could continue to make incremental power improvements to a vehicle.

BMW already has the data regarding tolerances from their design. Particularly with regard to boost parameters. If BMW sets boost at say 5psi but in their testing of the platform they over engineered it to run at 10psi.. then as BMW gets data BACK from vehicles in the form of service visits, they can decide to INCREASE or DECREASE parameters to get the reliability they want !

Let's say that they have 5000 vehicles on the road and they have all driven 20,000 miles. All the data from this can be used to determine a failure rate. If the failure rate is extremely low , then why can't they incrementally add .5 or even 1psi boost updates and continue to watch reliability ?

Conversely if they find that reliability is incredibly LOW then they may dial BACK the boost parameters .. the fact that the customer is encouraged to get warranty service for two, three, and even four years provides BMW with all the data they need !

As you mention, once the item is of a certain age, it may make sense to discontinue development or changes. The end of the warranty period basically means the updates stop if the customer begins to service the vehicle elsewhere!


stefan does this make sense ?

Just like the VW example above , just think of the way the manufacturer can adjust for and control reliability and/or performance of vehicles IN THE FIELD!

Again, first and foremost, show me a shred of proof that isn't speculation without any evidence whatsoever from one forum user.

We aren't talking about any generic BMW. We aren't talking about N54s. We are talking about the N55. Making over 40hp over its previous iterations with only minor changes to internals and with the same air to air cooled system. I simply do not believe this motor would receive any major boost changes through factory updates. Why wouldn't they do this from the factory? There's plenty of N55 field data.

I mean you should probably tell Dinan they have it all wrong and that the stock turbo clearly has a lot more to give. Because according to them it's nearly tapped out, stock, which is why their Stage 1 tune doesn't add much power.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by stefan;2237591ƒ

Again, first and foremost, show me a shred of proof that isn't speculation without any evidence whatsoever from one forum user.

We aren't talking about any generic BMW. We aren't talking about N54s. We are talking about the N55. Making over 40hp over its previous iterations with only minor changes to internals and with the same air to air cooled system. I simply do not believe this motor would receive any major boost changes through factory updates. Why wouldn't they do this from the factory? There's plenty of N55 field data.

I mean you should probably tell Dinan they have it all wrong and that the stock turbo clearly has a lot more to give. Because according to them it's nearly tapped out, stock, which is why their Stage 1 tune doesn't add much power.

"Nearly tapped out"' or tapped out ?
A Dinah tune -Doesn't add "much" or doesn't add ANY? lol

Maybe you should take a moment and decide, and then make your argument :

Multiple times you've stated that BMW didn't leave any room on the table and then you immediately upend your own argument by admitting that additional performance CAN be gleaned from the N55B30TO.

You can ask for proof and I can't give it to you, because I don't work for BMW. As I stated I bet even BMW announcing it you will have your doubts.


However , I have been able to deduce more than a few things about BMW, enough to certainly understand and wait for a 1M, enough to understand and even declare the way the M2 has been marketed as a loss leader , enough to understand the way that BMW markets products via development and improvement, which Has led me to wait for an M2 further progress!! I'm also convinced that I'll be able to pick up an an M2 CSL 6MT in 2019.. We shall see if I'm right in that regard as well.




If you don't understand the brilliance of what I explained above, You on the other hand, can continue to have your doubts - that's all you've got to cling to!