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      12-29-2019, 12:17 AM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCCThree View Post
Just know that when you do switch you will be thrilled. 😁👍
Haha good to know!

I probably will go with a hankook rs4 or bridgestone re71R option though since MPS4S and street Michelin tires tend to suck on the track.

Probably in time, this m2 build is taking me forever to get started since I still have a few projects to deal with.
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      12-29-2019, 03:49 PM   #90
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Took a look at the clearance between tire and fender liner for the stock setup. No joke there isn't a lot of room there. Have to squeeze my finger to get in between. Guess I have to stick with stock wheel fitment to up the tire 255 from 245.
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      01-05-2020, 12:29 AM   #91
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Returned my F80 M3 and curious if the setup I had will fit the M2C. Stock suspension with no plans on lowering, just a daily driver. WillTheyFit puts the front 13.4mm and rear 12.4mm out more

VFF 101's with:
19x9.5 et22 265/35/19
19x10.5 et34 285/35/19
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      01-07-2020, 06:57 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by ssabripo View Post
just saying hi, 295/30 rears here
Looks good man! What are you running on the front? Planing on going the 295/30 in few months.
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      01-07-2020, 10:26 PM   #93
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Ok guys--

I've been reading, and reading and READING.

And my head? Explodie.

Definitive answer please--

BONE STOCK suspension on a S55 2020 M2C. No springs, coil overs, camber plates or anything. No drop. No nuthin' suspension-wise.

I'd like to go +1-- i.e. from 245/265 on Michelin Pilot Super Sport to 255/275 on Michelin PS4S's.

Will this fit with NO rubbing?. Not even a little?

The car is 11 weeks out, and I'm considering swapping the tires as soon as I get my hands on it.

Thanks-- I've read "no problem", "sight rubbing" to "sure, stick a 275/305 on it, it's all good"-- I've lost the plot.

R.
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      01-08-2020, 05:11 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flybigjet View Post
Ok guys--

I've been reading, and reading and READING.

And my head? Explodie.

Definitive answer please--

BONE STOCK suspension on a S55 2020 M2C. No springs, coil overs, camber plates or anything. No drop. No nuthin' suspension-wise.

I'd like to go +1-- i.e. from 245/265 on Michelin Pilot Super Sport to 255/275 on Michelin PS4S's.

Will this fit with NO rubbing?. Not even a little?

The car is 11 weeks out, and I'm considering swapping the tires as soon as I get my hands on it.

Thanks-- I've read "no problem", "sight rubbing" to "sure, stick a 275/305 on it, it's all good"-- I've lost the plot.

R.
You will be fine, I am running 255/40/18 and 275/40/18 (M3/4 OEM sizes) on my M2C (EU small brakes) = 0 rubbing!

BTW 255/40/18 and 255/35/19 are equal, see here https://www.wheel-size.com/calc/?whe...cl=50mm&sr=0mm
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      01-08-2020, 07:16 AM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flybigjet View Post
Ok guys--

I've been reading, and reading and READING.

And my head? Explodie.

Definitive answer please--

BONE STOCK suspension on a S55 2020 M2C. No springs, coil overs, camber plates or anything. No drop. No nuthin' suspension-wise.

I'd like to go +1-- i.e. from 245/265 on Michelin Pilot Super Sport to 255/275 on Michelin PS4S's.

Will this fit with NO rubbing?. Not even a little?

The car is 11 weeks out, and I'm considering swapping the tires as soon as I get my hands on it.

Thanks-- I've read "no problem", "sight rubbing" to "sure, stick a 275/305 on it, it's all good"-- I've lost the plot.

R.
Not even a little!
If your running high power 500+ then go 285 rear as traction will be far better, same aspect ratio of 35! I even run winters at 285, I know it’s not optimal for snow but I only really use winters for when temperature drops, they don’t rub at all and my suspension is bone stock, the other advantage of wider tyres is better durability, they last a good while longer, which is my reason for using them.
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      01-08-2020, 11:08 AM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flybigjet View Post
I'd like to go +1-- i.e. from 245/265 on Michelin Pilot Super Sport to 255/275 on Michelin PS4S's.
I don't think you'll have any real issue, even if you rub slightly under specific circumstances.

The problem is the front 255/30 has a much wider shoulder than the stock 245/35 because it's so much shorter. So stock TW is 8.6 and the 255's is 9.8, so you're adding .6 to each side of the tire. The saving grace is that the OD of the 255 is 25.1, whereas stock OD is 25.8, so you're .35 shorter on top.
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      01-08-2020, 11:33 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VisualEcho View Post
I don't think you'll have any real issue, even if you rub slightly under specific circumstances.

The problem is the front 255/30 has a much wider shoulder than the stock 245/35 because it's so much shorter. So stock TW is 8.6 and the 255's is 9.8, so you're adding .6 to each side of the tire. The saving grace is that the OD of the 255 is 25.1, whereas stock OD is 25.8, so you're .35 shorter on top.
Could you expand on this please? You sort of lost me-- use simple words for the stupid people (that would be me about tires).

Not sure what TW is?

I'm "okay" at tires, but not very good at the "in the weeds" numbers-- I pretty much understand the part about sidewall aspect ration vs. width, but that's close to the end of my knowledge.

From what I figured, 255 tires were w/in 1% and about 9mm (?) difference from 245?

Could be wrong-- doing it from memory. From what I saw at dealer, full lock gave me about 1 finger of clearance (technical measurement) on the 245 on the front.

Since I'm looking to do this to a car on order, I sort of need a definitive "yes/no" since I can't really experiment on my own.

TIA--

R.

Last edited by flybigjet; 01-08-2020 at 11:38 PM..
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      01-09-2020, 11:58 AM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flybigjet View Post
Could you expand on this please? You sort of lost me-- use simple words for the stupid people (that would be me about tires).

Not sure what TW is?

I'm "okay" at tires, but not very good at the "in the weeds" numbers-- I pretty much understand the part about sidewall aspect ration vs. width, but that's close to the end of my knowledge.

From what I figured, 255 tires were w/in 1% and about 9mm (?) difference from 245?

Could be wrong-- doing it from memory. From what I saw at dealer, full lock gave me about 1 finger of clearance (technical measurement) on the 245 on the front.

Since I'm looking to do this to a car on order, I sort of need a definitive "yes/no" since I can't really experiment on my own.

TIA--

R.
TW = tread width, or basically the shoulder.

The reason that there are so many threads like this is because the tire industry has no standardization, so a 245/35/19 Michelin PS4S can be, and fit quite differently from a 245/35/19 Toyo R888.

The TW is important because it's where the shoulder, or the edge of the tire is, so it gives you something to look at with regards to where the edges will sit, and knowing the specs of the stock tire you can compare them, and get a good idea if it'll rub or not.

Choosing such a short tire and not dropping the car, you should have no issues, but unless someone has done exactly what you mean to to, with the exact same make/model/size of tire, then no one can tell you for certain.
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      01-09-2020, 03:16 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VisualEcho View Post
The reason that there are so many threads like this is because the tire industry has no standardization, so a 245/35/19 Michelin PS4S can be, and fit quite differently from a 245/35/19 Toyo R888.
There actually is a standard that all tire makers are supposed to follow for each size. It's a window or frame within which the tire dimensions must fall when mounted on the "measuring width" wheel for the specified tire size. The Tire and Rim Association is responsible for the requirements.

Two tires that fall on each side of the extremes of section width (for example) might cause a rub issue with one where the other one clears...always been the case...
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      01-09-2020, 04:11 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSBM5 View Post
There actually is a standard that all tire makers are supposed to follow for each size. It's a window or frame within which the tire dimensions must fall when mounted on the "measuring width" wheel for the specified tire size. The Tire and Rim Association is responsible for the requirements.

Two tires that fall on each side of the extremes of section width (for example) might cause a rub issue with one where the other one clears...always been the case...
No one follows any standard. You don't have to take my word for it, show up to your local tire shop to see the truth. Even the exact same size from the same company will have much different dimensions if you compare their Summer tire to their Winter tire, to their All Season tire.

There is no standardization.
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      01-09-2020, 10:49 PM   #101
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For example the exact same size RE71R will tend to be a bit fatter than the more "narrow" fitting RS4 probably due to the RE71R having huge shoulders.
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      01-09-2020, 11:08 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F87source View Post
+1

For example the exact same size RE71R will tend to be a bit fatter than the more "narrow" fitting RS4 probably due to the RE71R having huge shoulders.
-1

His reasoning doesn't prove no one follows sizing standardization since we do not know what the standard size tolerances are without purchasing the $125 guide book.

It's totally possible hancook rs4 and bridgestrone re71r can be different sizes and still fit within standard tolerances.

Also, the standardization is not required for snow tires.

I believe what visualecho is doing is mistaking treadwear standards with treadwidth standards. There are treadwear standards, but the test is kinda flawed to where mfgs extrapolate data to give ratings. So manufacturers assign whatever number they see fit after running a standardized test. Leading to treadwear numbers not being comparable between mfgs. This has nothing to do with tire sizing though.

Last edited by Anthony1s; 01-09-2020 at 11:19 PM..
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      01-10-2020, 05:35 AM   #103
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^^ Exactly. There is an envelope for every tire size that it must fall within when mounted on the mandated measuring rim width wheel and inflated to the specification. There is variation in each dimension possible for each size hence the reason you see some tires at extremes of the envelope. In the EU, for a tire to be legally sold with the required "e" or "E", it must meet the ETRTO specs.

One example I'm familiar with from years ago relates to a specific manufacturer's 265/35-18 DOT R-comp tire. It has a very unusual sidewall to tread face design in that it's tread width is essentially the maximum section width too (i.e. no taper from max section width to tread face, essentially never seen in a "normal" tire). Additionally, it's section width when measured with the specified wheel width was 272 mm. All of that fit within the TRA specification for that tire size. The tires would rub like hell on some cars where other "265/35-18" tires would not. Since that time other tires have started exploiting the carcass design philosophy of that tire in street tire compounds (i.e. BFG Rival, RE-71R to some extent, etc.)
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      01-10-2020, 07:47 AM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony1s View Post
I believe what visualecho is doing is mistaking treadwear standards with treadwidth standards.
Um, no. What I'm doing is explaining what I've seen in the real world over many years of selling tires, not reading a book. It'd nearly impossible for me to imagine that anyone would come to a different conclusion after having done the same (about as impossible as it would be for anyone to confuse tread wear with tread width).

Quote:
Originally Posted by CSBM5 View Post
^^ Exactly. There is an envelope for every tire size that it must fall within when mounted on the mandated measuring rim width wheel and inflated to the specification.
There is a general envelope, yes, but it varies wildly per make, model, and size of tire.

When Hoosier released their new R7 (the successor to the A6), they caused thousands of rubbing issues because the new design ran significantly wider. In fact, the R7 225/45 fit nearly identical to the R6 245/40.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CSBM5 View Post
One example I'm familiar with from years ago relates to a specific manufacturer's 265/35-18 DOT R-comp tire. It has a very unusual sidewall to tread face design...
That's nothing new, Bridgestone did it with the S02 on the S2000, Subaru did it with the RE070 that came on the '04/'05/'06/'07 STi's, Lotus did it with the Yokohama A048 LTS that came on the Elise/Exige, and many others.

These manufacturer-tweaked tires don't concern me much because they are supposed to be fitted to specific cars. My position is, and will remain, that even though there might be a general standardization (simply because manufacturers make more than one size of tire), there is no real standardization because my real-world experience has shown me that exact tire sizes vary significantly.

If you want to argue these points feel free to do so, but I won't be participating, as I've explained my experience, and nothing you say is not going to change my experience.
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      01-10-2020, 08:52 AM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VisualEcho View Post
Um, no. What I'm doing is explaining what I've seen in the real world over many years of selling tires, not reading a book. It'd nearly impossible for me to imagine that anyone would come to a different conclusion after having done the same (about as impossible as it would be for anyone to confuse tread wear with tread width).
What you're doing is taking anecdotal information from a sample size of one (yourself) and using it to explain away things that are untrue for an entire market... That is not how educated conclusions are made.


Quote:
Originally Posted by VisualEcho View Post
There is a general envelope, yes, but it varies wildly per make, model, and size of tire.

When Hoosier released their new R7 (the successor to the A6), they caused thousands of rubbing issues because the new design ran significantly wider. In fact, the R7 225/45 fit nearly identical to the R6 245/40.
Just like winter tires, race tires like the R7 are not required to follow the standardization. Years of tire selling experience, you should know that. If you look at the R7 product description, it clearly states they only meet DOT requirements for performance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VisualEcho View Post
If you want to argue these points feel free to do so, but I won't be participating, as I've explained my experience, and nothing you say is not going to change my experience.
That's confirmation bias, so you wouldn't really be a productive part of the conversation due to that anyway.

Last edited by Anthony1s; 01-10-2020 at 12:21 PM..
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      01-10-2020, 02:38 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F87source View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCCThree View Post
Got the MPS4S 255/35, 285/35 on finally. No rubbing. WAY WAY WAY better than those horrid Contis.
Stock suspension, wheels, no spacers, etc.
Dang that looks good, I unfortunately still have contis.....
The one thing I'm not totally thrilled with is that the rears are pretty tall (which I like) but the fronts aren't. It looks a little mismatched to me. I'd prefer maybe a 255/30 in the front to make it taller to match the rear but I've read people say that second number needs to match on both front and rear due to traction control system issues. Not sure as I'm no tire expert obviously.

What I'm trying to say is: Love the 285/35 rears but the 255/35 fronts are shorter and it makes it look odd.

Reminder: stock suspension
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      01-10-2020, 02:44 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony1s View Post
-1

His reasoning doesn't prove no one follows sizing standardization since we do not know what the standard size tolerances are without purchasing the $125 guide book.

It's totally possible hancook rs4 and bridgestrone re71r can be different sizes and still fit within standard tolerances.

Also, the standardization is not required for snow tires.

I believe what visualecho is doing is mistaking treadwear standards with treadwidth standards. There are treadwear standards, but the test is kinda flawed to where mfgs extrapolate data to give ratings. So manufacturers assign whatever number they see fit after running a standardized test. Leading to treadwear numbers not being comparable between mfgs. This has nothing to do with tire sizing though.
Even if you speak to tire experts and suspension fitment experts they'll tell you for a wider shock body such as the key v3 club sports you may not be able to fit a particular tire size for example 275 in the front due to rub. So when selecting tires they often advise that the re71r's are extremely blocky due to the agressive side walls and not to pick that if you have kw's and pick a more streamlined tire such as the rs4. So there is some slight variations between tires that can cause rubbing.
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      01-10-2020, 02:47 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCCThree View Post
The one thing I'm not totally thrilled with is that the rears are pretty tall (which I like) but the fronts aren't. It looks a little mismatched to me. I'd prefer maybe a 255/30 in the front to make it taller to match the rear but I've read people say that second number needs to match on both front and rear due to traction control system issues. Not sure as I'm no tire expert obviously.

What I'm trying to say is: Love the 285/35 rears but the 255/35 fronts are shorter and it makes it look odd.
Yeah I know what you mean, I'm also not a fan of the raked looked either.

The second number matching doesn't mean anything, it doesn't necessarily have to match. What the second number represents is aspect ratio, ratio of width to rim size. So you need to pick an aspect ratio that results in an overall tire height that is within 3% of factory overall height in order to avoid issues. There's a calculator online to determine it. But an example is if you go significantly wider than factory with the same height you'll need a smaller aspect ratio to keep the same or similar overall height.
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      01-10-2020, 03:09 PM   #109
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I have 285/35R19 rear, 255/35R19 front (Michelin Alpine PA4 winter tires). There is no rub. However, I also think it looks strange to have so much of a size difference.

If you are willing to modify your wheel liners for more clearance, 285/35R19, 265/35R19 may be the best option. The 285/265 setup fills the wheel arches better, provides a softer ride, provides slight longer gearing, and compensates for the speedometer reading low from the factory.

The 275/35R19 rear, 255/35R19 front is a better choice if you aren't willing to modify your wheel well liners.
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      01-10-2020, 03:31 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DriverDaily View Post
I have 285/35R19 rear, 255/35R19 front (Michelin Alpine PA4 winter tires). There is no rub. However, I also think it looks strange to have so much of a size difference.

If you are willing to modify your wheel liners for more clearance, 285/35R19, 265/35R19 may be the best option. The 285/265 setup fills the wheel arches better, provides a softer ride, provides slight longer gearing, and compensates for the speedometer reading low from the factory.

The 275/35R19 rear, 255/35R19 front is a better choice if you aren't willing to modify your wheel well liners.
275/35/18 will fit in the front with a set of apex wheels and their m2 specific offset (ET22, ET28) but you'll need some agressive negative camber.
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