BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
M2 Technical Topics > Track / Autocross / Dragstrip > Randy Pobst says keep stagger

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      10-30-2016, 09:15 PM   #1
Twt
Captain
Twt's Avatar
633
Rep
650
Posts

Drives: 2017 M2
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Atlanta

iTrader: (4)

Randy Pobst says keep stagger

I ran into Randy Pobst this weekend at the AMP chump race in Atlanta...he shows up at AMP quite often since it is close to his home. He is great guy who always has time to hang around and talk about cars and racing. When I mentioned my new M2 his eyes lit up and he told me he loved this car.....best M yet! We talked about suspension, wheels, tires , etc. and he said to basically enjoy it as is ( of course we need brake pads and fluid ), and if you do go with track tires, keep the stagger. He acknowledges that a square set up works best on the previous/ other models, but this car has perfect balance from the factory.
Now, before anyone wants to argue.....this conversation was based upon driving the car to the track, fast laps at HPDE, and driving home. Certainly, if you want to chase GTRs and GT3s around, that's a different story, so modify away.
Appreciate 5
CrashFL136.50
Em-too279.50
BAN_M2C4153.00
Seagull287.50
      10-30-2016, 09:36 PM   #2
Pyrat 2
Colonel
Pyrat 2's Avatar
United_States
1418
Rep
2,559
Posts

Drives: Rapidly from A to B
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Chicago 'burbs or TN Smokies

iTrader: (3)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twt View Post
I ran into Randy Pobst this weekend at the AMP chump race in Atlanta...he shows up at AMP quite often since it is close to his home. He is great guy who always has time to hang around and talk about cars and racing. When I mentioned my new M2 his eyes lit up and he told me he loved this car.....best M yet! We talked about suspension, wheels, tires , etc. and he said to basically enjoy it as is ( of course we need brake pads and fluid ), and if you do go with track tires, keep the stagger. He acknowledges that a square set up works best on the previous/ other models, but this car has perfect balance from the factory.
Now, before anyone wants to argue.....this conversation was based upon driving the car to the track, fast laps at HPDE, and driving home. Certainly, if you want to chase GTRs and GT3s around, that's a different story, so modify away.
When I talked to the buys at the MPE they told me the same. Don't go square with the M2.
__________________
'07 Z4MR '22 GT4 '18 GT3 '16 GT4, '16 M2, '14 X1, '13 135is, '06 330i, '03 323 Ci, '01 330i, '99 M3 (RIP), '96 318is, some non-BMWs
Appreciate 1
BAN_M2C4153.00
      10-31-2016, 12:39 AM   #3
FAN_F1
Private First Class
FAN_F1's Avatar
74
Rep
174
Posts

Drives: 2017 F87 M2 / 2009 997.2 C4S
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Encinitas, CA

iTrader: (0)

VERY interested in this thread!
__________________
2017 F87 M2 M-DCT ALPINWEISS / Oct 2016 / BMW WELT European 'Re-Delivery'
2016 F87 M2 M-DCT ALPINWEISS May 2016 / BMW WELT European Delivery (Gone)
2009 997.2 C4S PDK PCCB (DD)
1991 E30 318is Diamondschwarz/Blk (Garage Queen)
Appreciate 0
      10-31-2016, 06:25 AM   #4
f87chas
Private First Class
45
Rep
103
Posts

Drives: M2
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Youngstown Ohio

iTrader: (0)

Great info, appreciate you sharing it!
Appreciate 0
      11-01-2016, 03:13 PM   #5
craina
Second Lieutenant
77
Rep
220
Posts

Drives: 2020 m2c
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Houston, TX

iTrader: (1)

Square setup works great on my 1m. Lots of +/- to consider when looking at square vs staggered. Balance aside, a lot of people will want a square track setup so that they can rotate all 4 tires to all 4 corners. However, with a square setup those bigger front tires will kick up a lot more debris onto the side of the car and rear fenders. As a result the paintwork will take more of a beating. Just a few things to consider...
Appreciate 1
DrKevM52262.00
      11-02-2016, 03:13 PM   #6
Pparana
Captain
463
Rep
957
Posts

Drives: 2015 m235i
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Jacksonville Fl

iTrader: (1)

square for track with suspension upgrades. Staggered is prob. best for factory setup. Factory setups always understeer. Really depends on driver, and what other mods. I run square on all track cars. Cheaper. M235i racing is square too. They even gave cost as a reason.
Randy was a co-driver for an enduro I did a while back, Your brave giving him your car. He has a reputation of destroying machinery (driving the wheels off), but that is race cars. I would let him stick to press cars. All kidding aside a very nice guy.
Appreciate 0
      11-06-2016, 07:52 PM   #7
MilehighM3
Brigadier General
MilehighM3's Avatar
United_States
910
Rep
3,452
Posts

Drives: Harrop E90 M3
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Colorado Springs

iTrader: (14)

Garage List
2009 E90 M3  [6.50]
After driving the M2 stock, stock with coilovers and brake pad upgrades and squared up with coilovers and a bbk, I'll take a squared up car over stock any day. Understeer is almost 100% eliminated and the front end grip is fantastic. Ready is obviously a great driver, but he's far from perfect. Ask him about a need for additional front end grip on pikes peak. Watching him bury a GTR in the hillside 100' off the road after failing to make a turn can't help but make me question his judgement at times.
Appreciate 2
DrKevM52262.00
      11-07-2016, 08:02 PM   #8
DrKevM5
Colonel
DrKevM5's Avatar
United_States
2262
Rep
2,514
Posts

Drives: G05 X5, F87 M2
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Western NY

iTrader: (7)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MilehighM3 View Post
After driving the M2 stock, stock with coilovers and brake pad upgrades and squared up with coilovers and a bbk, I'll take a squared up car over stock any day. Understeer is almost 100% eliminated and the front end grip is fantastic. Ready is obviously a great driver, but he's far from perfect. Ask him about a need for additional front end grip on pikes peak. Watching him bury a GTR in the hillside 100' off the road after failing to make a turn can't help but make me question his judgement at times.
Truth...
__________________
?16 M2 Long Beach Blue/Black, 6MT
'22 X5 4.0 M Sport Black Sapphire/Tartufo
?22 Tesla Model Y Performance Midnight Silver/White
Appreciate 0
      11-08-2016, 07:31 AM   #9
paradoxical3
Lieutenant Colonel
1008
Rep
1,563
Posts

Drives: BMW
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: USA

iTrader: (6)

I would prefer square but you are sacrificing too much putting a 265 in the rear of this car. It will be fastest with a 295 or 305 out back and a 265 in front, and then dialing out the oversteer with suspension.
Appreciate 0
      11-08-2016, 10:07 AM   #10
Spinnetti
Private First Class
96
Rep
185
Posts

Drives: Various
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Frisco, TX

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MilehighM3 View Post
After driving the M2 stock, stock with coilovers and brake pad upgrades and squared up with coilovers and a bbk, I'll take a squared up car over stock any day. Understeer is almost 100% eliminated and the front end grip is fantastic. Ready is obviously a great driver, but he's far from perfect. Ask him about a need for additional front end grip on pikes peak. Watching him bury a GTR in the hillside 100' off the road after failing to make a turn can't help but make me question his judgement at times.
He wouldn't be a great driver if it he didn't stuff it once in a while. Risk is how you get to that level of performance - in any activity, and the better you are, the finer the line between amazing and disaster and sometimes you go over the line; its the price you pay for trying to be the best.

As to the tires, this is an interesting one. I experimented on one of my race cars (V8 Lexus) and I went from 225 16's to 265 17's with 1.5" more rim width in the rear and I can't say it handled that much different (oversteered too much)... I lowered the rear spring rate a bunch (300 lb/in) and it was a little better, then lowered the rear pressures more and a little better still - wish I had run a square set up on that with 255's all around... Wide rears probably won't do too much unless you run them at really low pressures I'm guessing. Fatter fronts will actually give you more understeer, and slimmer rears may give you more oversteer, so could be a wash in terms of balance but with greater total grip. I'm thinking of running HR super sport springs, front camber plates set around -2 since its a street car and 265/18" all around, maybe with some spacers in the back (wider track is more stable and effectively lowers the rear spring rate due to a longer moment arm). Will be fun to find out.
Appreciate 0
      12-05-2016, 11:16 AM   #11
M3 Adjuster
Banned
Albania
7905
Rep
11,785
Posts

Drives: 1M, X1 M Sport, E46 325ic
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Dallas, Tx

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by paradoxical3 View Post
I would prefer square but you are sacrificing too much putting a 265 in the rear of this car. It will be fastest with a 295 or 305 out back and a 265 in front, and then dialing out the oversteer with suspension.

Along with @craina. I agree square setup but it's gotta be bigger than stock. If you can get a 275/35/18 setup on an M2 then do it.

Square 285/30/18 fits our 1M...

With understeer at the limit you just can't get enough camber or tire on the front of the 1M or the M2. Max them both up front and then run as big as you can afford to on the back.

285/30/18 and 315/30/18 is probably the fastest setup for the 1M and I love it but the M2 seems to be even more tire limited ??

Agree with you both , i prefer square setup as long as I'm paying the tire bill, even if just driving to the track - i will be rotating my track setups.

If you are running stock 19s I agree run what you can out back and hold on in the corners.

@ Twt...

Randy Pobst loves to drive Porsches more than BMWs so while the data point is nice i would much prefer Bill auberlen or Boris Said's opinion !


Randy loves to get on the power early and often and he also favors high hp vehicles that's why he would advocate keeping the stock setup with more rear tire.
Appreciate 0
      12-05-2016, 08:42 PM   #12
MilehighM3
Brigadier General
MilehighM3's Avatar
United_States
910
Rep
3,452
Posts

Drives: Harrop E90 M3
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Colorado Springs

iTrader: (14)

Garage List
2009 E90 M3  [6.50]
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
With understeer at the limit you just can't get enough camber or tire on the front of the 1M or the M2. Max them both up front and then run as big as you can afford to on the back.
Actually with the KW Clubsport setup you can probably get -4.5 or possibly even -5 camber up front at a streetable ride height. I don't even max it out for the track as it's far too much camber and looks like a Japanese "stanced" vehicle LOL :
Appreciate 0
      12-06-2016, 02:01 PM   #13
M+M
Second Lieutenant
M+M's Avatar
New Zealand
227
Rep
245
Posts

Drives: M2 DCT MPerformance coilovers
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: New Zealand

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Factory MP adjustable suspension runs 5mm lower ride height at front vs rear (both lowered) compared to stock flat so there is a tweak whilst still running standard tire sizes.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:06 AM.




m2
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST