[eeyang92]

Originally Posted by SEAT TIME RULES

Gang I was the one who had trouble with my E36M3 after a clutch stop was installed.

It took hundreds of Auto X runs & track events but I eventually had trouble shifting from 2nd to 3rd gear.

It got so bad that I had to swap in a used tranny.

I wasn't trying to scare anyone, just letting you know that they are an awesome upgrade but you need to make sure that you aren't to aggressive with the adjustment.

In my case I had no idea that I was slowly damaging the synco cone..

I know tons of drivers who are fine with this mod.

HTH,
HAZMAT

After that many events, couldn't it just be normal wear and tear? I go between 2nd and .3rd a lot on the track.

[SEAT TIME RULES]

Originally Posted by eeyang92

After that many events, couldn't it just be normal wear and tear? I go between 2nd and .3rd a lot on the track.

Very low probability of that being the culprit. In fact most of the tracks I drive have mostly 3 to 4 shifting. Autocross is done on a local runway and maybe twice a run you had to go from 2nd to 3rd, or bounce off the rev limiter for an eternity...

[shamrock]

I bought my car second hand with the after market clutch stop already installed with one rubber washer. I don't have the stock clutch stop. Does anyone know what part number it is and where to order it from? Is it ok to use the aftermarket one without any washers and just the felt pad which is stuck to the end of it?

[Blurbo311]

This site has several if you search 'clutch stop', here is one: https://www.getbmwparts.com/oem-part...er-35316750569

If I were you I would just leave it in, its not going to hurt anything. I recently installed mine with two washers and it really helped eliminate the extra travel. I'm 99.9% sure its not hurting anything.

[shamrock]

Well, this subject has gone back and forth with speculations as to whether the aftermarket clutch stop can cause tranny issues. The ultimate conclusion is "YES!!" I bought my car with 20k km. It had a constant, slight grind between second and third. I even opened a thread to see who else had the grind. I told myself that I would live with it; yet, it always bothered me. I read on this thread the possibility that the clutch stop may cause this grinding. Well low and behold, it did and does!! I took it out (it had only one washer installed.) I put it back in with only the felt pad on the end and no washers and everything is so f***ing smooth. Does anyone think that any damage was done while the aftermarket stopper was installed. Don't use this!! Now I need to get the original one.

[Lukeni]

Originally Posted by shamrock

Well, this subject has gone back and forth with speculations as to whether the aftermarket clutch stop can cause tranny issues. The ultimate conclusion is "YES!!" I bought my car with 20k km. It had a constant, slight grind between second and third. I even opened a thread to see who else had the grind. I told myself that I would live with it; yet, it always bothered me. I read on this thread the possibility that the clutch stop may cause this grinding. Well low and behold, it did and does!! I took it out (it had only one washer installed.) I put it back in with only the felt pad on the end and no washers and everything is so f***ing smooth. Does anyone think that any damage was done while the aftermarket stopper was installed. Don't use this!! Now I need to get the original one.

Can confirm your story...went from 2 to 1 washer. Still felt grind from 2nd to 3rd when shifted In high rpm and WOT. Went back OEM and now supersmooth. Cant say anything about the wear, only had it in for 10k km

[geogerf]

Originally Posted by shamrock

Well, this subject has gone back and forth with speculations as to whether the aftermarket clutch stop can cause tranny issues. The ultimate conclusion is "YES!!" I bought my car with 20k km. It had a constant, slight grind between second and third. I even opened a thread to see who else had the grind. I told myself that I would live with it; yet, it always bothered me. I read on this thread the possibility that the clutch stop may cause this grinding. Well low and behold, it did and does!! I took it out (it had only one washer installed.) I put it back in with only the felt pad on the end and no washers and everything is so f***ing smooth. Does anyone think that any damage was done while the aftermarket stopper was installed. Don't use this!! Now I need to get the original one.

Is it possible that the prior driver did not fully disengage the clutch when he shifted? I don't think you can make an "ultimate conclusion". Maybe there were misshifts done in the past.

I've had mine on with 3 washers for about 12K miles and no feel of reported grinding. I'm curious to check, maybe I'll swap back the OEM.

[David.m]

Originally Posted by geogerf

Is it possible that the prior driver did not fully disengage the clutch when he shifted? I don't think you can make an "ultimate conclusion". Maybe there were misshifts done in the past.

I've had mine on with 3 washers for about 12K miles and no feel of reported grinding. I'm curious to check, maybe I'll swap back the OEM.

And I've had mine in for 15K km without any issue (1st 5K was with 3 washers before I went back to 2 washers). I only wish there was a UCP for RHD cars so I could get the pedal to sit at same level as the brake pedal & so get rid of the initial dead travel.

[shamrock]

What more needs to be said? With one washer there was grinding and with none totally smooth.

[David.m]

Originally Posted by shamrock

What more needs to be said? With one washer there was grinding and with none totally smooth.

Only that your experience may not be broadly applicable to all cars, you don't know how your car was driven for the 1st 20K km of it's life.

[Lukeni]

Originally Posted by David.m

Only that your experience may not be broadly applicable to all cars, you don't know how your car was driven for the 1st 20K km of it's life.

Maybe not to all, but at least for „some" - as i wrote got exactly the same issues.

[geogerf]

I swapped in the OEM stop drove normally for the past week. There's definitely dead space toward the end of the pedal travel, but it is hard to tell when the clutch actually catches since our cars have that "creep" feature.

I still think 3 washers is safe, but this thread has me paranoid. I will drive it for another week or so on OEM, but I feel 1 or 2 washers totally safe.

[M2guru]

I replaced my BMS clutch stop with the factory today - feels less notchy now. And I look forward to see what it's like in the winter - in the single digits (F) when first shifting the cold car it would grind slightly with 1 BMS washer (and it wasn't much of a grind because it would be real slow speed and I didn't force it).

[F87source]

Originally Posted by geogerf

I swapped in the OEM stop drove normally for the past week. There's definitely dead space toward the end of the pedal travel, but it is hard to tell when the clutch actually catches since our cars have that "creep" feature.

I still think 3 washers is safe, but this thread has me paranoid. I will drive it for another week or so on OEM, but I feel 1 or 2 washers totally safe.

My thoughts on this whole situation when I had my m2 set up with the clutch stop was to make sure the clutch was fully disengaged with it in place. So what I did was put the car on a level surface with the stock clutch stop in and slowly release the clutch and see when the clutch would engage. Even with the auto creep in place (it raises the revs to help first gear starts) it will actually help determine when the clutch engages as the car will start moving easier with a bit of extra torque. What I found was that there was an excessive amount of dead space between the bottom of the clutch travel and the spot where the car started to move.

With the bms clutch stop (2 washers in place) the dead spot was reduced significantly but there was still a little bit of dead space even applying extra throttle to assist in starting from 1st gear. That little bit of dead space imo is still larger than a third washer placed in there.

So from my findings I think the bms clutch stop is fine for up to 3 washers without issues. Stock was unbearable to drive with so much dead space I never bottomed out the clutch completely.

I think op's grinding issue may be caused by transmission fluid and synchros. My m2 even on stock clutch stops had a weird lock out going from 1 to 2. It feels exactly the same as in my Evo X and was solved by a transmission fluid swap to "redline cocktail". I might mess around with my transmission fluid sooner or later and report back.

[Nezil]

The clutch on the M2 is hydraulic isn't it, and even minute amounts of air in the lines can change the biting position. I suspect that what works for some people may be too much for others. Clutch wear may also play into this, I'm not sure about that though.

I think the important thing is to stay on top of it. If you're getting grinding and you know it's not your technique, then try removing a washer, or going back to stock.

I think it's unfair for anyone on this forum to say, for example, 'two washers is fine, three is too much', because for another car, it simply might not be.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by geogerf

I swapped in the OEM stop drove normally for the past week. There's definitely dead space toward the end of the pedal travel, but it is hard to tell when the clutch actually catches since our cars have that "creep" feature.

I still think 3 washers is safe, but this thread has me paranoid. I will drive it for another week or so on OEM, but I feel 1 or 2 washers totally safe.

Originally Posted by Nezil

The clutch on the M2 is hydraulic isn't it, and even minute amounts of air in the lines can change the biting position. I suspect that what works for some people may be too much for others. Clutch wear may also play into this, I'm not sure about that though.

I think the important thing is to stay on top of it. If you're getting grinding and you know it's not your technique, then try removing a washer, or going back to stock.

I think it's unfair for anyone on this forum to say, for example, 'two washers is fine, three is too much', because for another car, it simply might not be.

Yup it's hydraulic, so if you want to make sure a solution works for your said car then test it. You can do so by clutching in and slowly releasing with some gas to see where the bite point is. I recommend having a bit of dead space left even with the washers on for better modulation. (I don't like on/off switches)

[mr_lab_rat]

Originally Posted by Nezil

The clutch on the M2 is hydraulic isn't it, and even minute amounts of air in the lines can change the biting position. I suspect that what works for some people may be too much for others. Clutch wear may also play into this, I'm not sure about that though.

I think the important thing is to stay on top of it. If you're getting grinding and you know it's not your technique, then try removing a washer, or going back to stock.

I think it's unfair for anyone on this forum to say, for example, 'two washers is fine, three is too much', because for another car, it simply might not be.

Exactly, the clutch grab point varies from car to car.

[Rupes]

This thread has me concerned. Can anyone verify using the "window" technique mentioned earlier? Using two washers now, but might go back to OEM if we can't get some proof this is ok to use.

[M2guru]

Originally Posted by Rupes

This thread has me concerned. Can anyone verify using the "window" technique mentioned earlier? Using two washers now, but might go back to OEM if we can't get some proof this is ok to use.

Someone mentioned this in this thread (not going back to look), but I don't think a "window" exists for the F87 (though I don't know for sure) or for all/most vehicles. But someone else can correct me if I am wrong.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by F87source

My thoughts on this whole situation when I had my m2 set up with the clutch stop was to make sure the clutch was fully disengaged with it in place. So what I did was put the car on a level surface with the stock clutch stop in and slowly release the clutch and see when the clutch would engage. Even with the auto creep in place (it raises the revs to help first gear starts) it will actually help determine when the clutch engages as the car will start moving easier with a bit of extra torque. What I found was that there was an excessive amount of dead space between the bottom of the clutch travel and the spot where the car started to move.

With the bms clutch stop (2 washers in place) the dead spot was reduced significantly but there was still a little bit of dead space even applying extra throttle to assist in starting from 1st gear. That little bit of dead space imo is still larger than a third washer placed in there.

So from my findings I think the bms clutch stop is fine for up to 3 washers without issues. Stock was unbearable to drive with so much dead space I never bottomed out the clutch completely.

I think op's grinding issue may be caused by transmission fluid and synchros. My m2 even on stock clutch stops had a weird lock out going from 1 to 2. It feels exactly the same as in my Evo X and was solved by a transmission fluid swap to "redline cocktail". I might mess around with my transmission fluid sooner or later and report back.

Originally Posted by Rupes

This thread has me concerned. Can anyone verify using the "window" technique mentioned earlier? Using two washers now, but might go back to OEM if we can't get some proof this is ok to use.

Every mod has a risk compared to stock that you have to be willing to take in order to mod your car.


That being said you can try the test I have done before which I have quoted above. Imo this is probably one of the most comprehensive tests you can do to ensure your clutch is fully disengaged.

[SM2]

Took a couple mins to install. Only have one spacer on after reading this thread.

[mr_lab_rat]

I got a different brand clutch stop and had to go to a minimum thickness (about 5mm) otherwise I had difficulties to shift from 1st to 2nd.