[Artemis]

Originally Posted by ClothSeats

At the end of the analog road you end up in something sub-3000 lbs from the 70s with wind-up windows, manual steering, a carburetor, and cable-operated clutch + throttle. Put your money where your mouth is!

...or go ride a bicycle to feel more engaged and get more accurate steering feel and better road feedback.

[eau_rouge]

Originally Posted by stefan

Analog? Raw? Sounds like someone forgot about the E46 M3. I don't think any of the words he used to describe "proper M" apply to these lazy turbo cars.

That all said I see zero reason to buy an overpriced 1M over a more competent M2. Don't forget the 1M interior is abysmal as well. And since 99% of us just daily these cars I think that's a bit important.

Thanks man! I fully agree!

I really can't hear it anymore...the 1M and raw? WTF...

Drive the M346 and the 1M back to back (E46 with MT of course) and tell me what "raw" is. Both cars are not "raw", but the 1M definitely is not the "dangerous" car that can cost your life. In fact, it is easy to drive and a modern car from a new turbo era with RWD and more than 300hp. Please don't act like this car is the holy grail.

Drive a F40 or a Countach if you want something raw.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by ClothSeats

At the end of the analog road you end up in something sub-3000 lbs from the 70s with wind-up windows, manual steering, a carburetor, and cable-operated clutch + throttle. Put your money where your mouth is!

I began on the analog road with 17 years of E30 M3. That's not at the beginning of analog, and why is there any need to try and convince people of the track worthiness of an E21 or a 2002 if they grew up in the 90s and 2000s. ?



The beginning of the analog watch would be 1978 Timex - pretty sure if that was the only option no one would consider an analog watch right ?

However,I am pretty sure analog watches still have value even in this digital age- not everyone thinks an Apple Watch or google watch is better than a good quality Movado, tag heuer, Rolex, etc.

Those are just analog trash right ?

Same is true of cars.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by Fahrvergnügen

And at the other end of the spectrum... falling asleep watching movies while your electric car runs laps on the nurburgring

Hey who cares how it's done if you can declare a better lap time right ?

No matter if the car drives into a semi, or off the road into a guard rail in the process

[ClothSeats]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

I began on the analog road with 17 years of E30 M3. That's not at the beginning of analog, and why is there any need to try and convince people of the track worthiness of an E21 or a 2002 if they grew up in the 90s and 2000s. ?



The beginning of the analog watch would be 1978 Timex - pretty sure if that was the only option no one would consider an analog watch right ?

However,I am pretty sure analog watches still have value even in this digital age- not everyone thinks an Apple Watch or google watch is better than a good quality Movado, tag heuer, Rolex, etc.

Those are just analog trash right ?

Same is true of cars.

I love mechanical cars. Had a manual steer MR2 that would swap ends on you in a second if you lifted mid-corner in the rain. But how would you like if a bunch of E46 M3/Z4MC owners came in the 1M section to remind you their car is more involving because it's N/A? Then the E36 M3 guys can troll them with their cable throttles providing true analog control. And the E30 M3 owners can tell the E36 people that their car is too heavy.

The older car will always be more involving. The new car faster/more comfortable. That's what technology does..

The only exception might be domestics, because most of their stuff was crap since the 70s until recently..

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by ClothSeats

I love mechanical cars. Had a manual steer MR2 that would swap ends on you in a second if you lifted mid-corner in the rain. But how would you like if a bunch of E46 M3/Z4MC owners came in the 1M section to remind you their car is more involving because it's N/A? Then the E36 M3 guys can troll them with their cable throttles providing true analog control. And the E30 M3 owners can tell the E36 people that their car is too heavy.

The older car will always be more involving. The new car faster/more comfortable. That's what technology does..

The only exception might be domestics, because most of their stuff was crap since the 70s until recently..

you might want to check the top of the article... I believe it's a comparaison of the 1M and M2... so.... people coming in and jumping in with opinions on those two models is kinda what the original topic is right?

If there's a comparison article /video between the E46 M3 and 1M...and it it's posted in the 1M forum... I would kinda expect some E46 M3 owners to comment... I would also expect that 1M owners might comment on a thread in an E46 M3 forum ....


PS... I do believe it was YOU that dialed up the wayback machine with your analog road comments..

[Fahrvergnügen]

Originally Posted by ClothSeats

I love mechanical cars. Had a manual steer MR2 that would swap ends on you in a second if you lifted mid-corner in the rain. But how would you like if a bunch of E46 M3/Z4MC owners came in the 1M section to remind you their car is more involving because it's N/A? Then the E36 M3 guys can troll them with their cable throttles providing true analog control. And the E30 M3 owners can tell the E36 people that their car is too heavy.

The older car will always be more involving. The new car faster/more comfortable. That's what technology does..

The only exception might be domestics, because most of their stuff was crap since the 70s until recently..

In general, that is probably true but for sake of argument my 1M is no less involving than my e36 M3. They obviously drive a bit different but each are involving in their own way. I actually like the vader seats in my e36 more than the seats in the 1M. My e36 has heated seats whereas my 1M does not. Both have manual seats. Whether you have an actuator or not for a throttle does not really make a difference. The engines each have their own character, they are different but both fun. Sunroof in e36, none in 1M.

I think what some mean by more analog / raw does not mean everyone want to ride a horse to work, they want something that is involving but that 'involvement' could come from many different engines, suspensions, transmissions, etc. What some may say about the current generation of cars is that the focus is less geared on involvement and more focused on 0-60 / lap times / navigation features / automatic everything which is a scary thing to think about. The M2 is probably an awesome car to own and have considering we live in an era where more and more people would probably prefer to watch movies in their electric car than head out to a back road for some twisties.

[ClothSeats]

Originally Posted by Fahrvergnügen

In general, that is probably true but for sake of argument my 1M is no less involving than my e36 M3. They obviously drive a bit different but each are involving in their own way. I actually like the vader seats in my e36 more than the seats in the 1M. My e36 has heated seats whereas my 1M does not. Both have manual seats. Whether you have an actuator or not for a throttle does not really make a difference. The engines each have their own character, they are different but both fun. Sunroof in e36, none in 1M.

I think what some mean by more analog / raw does not mean everyone want to ride a horse to work, they want something that is involving but that 'involvement' could come from many different engines, suspensions, transmissions, etc. What some may say about the current generation of cars is that the focus is less geared on involvement and more focused on 0-60 / lap times / navigation features / automatic everything which is a scary thing to think about. The M2 is probably an awesome car to own and have considering we live in an era where more and more people would probably prefer to watch movies in their electric car than head out to a back road for some twisties.

Just like with hydraulic steering, cable throttle feel is subjective.. some people prefer the feel, other prefer the electronic and some don't notice a difference at all. At the very least, electric steering is still mechanically connected to the steering rack and is just electrically assisted. An electronic throttle is a remote with no direct mechanical linkage from pedal to throttle. I wouldn't be surprised if the steer by wire system eventually becomes mainstream as well. The overall trend is towards digital cars and the peak of true mechanical interaction is behind us.

[chambolle]

May I just say, as a very happy 21 year original owner of an E36 M3, and a guy eagerly anticipating the delivery of my new 6MT M2, phooey on all of this carping and malarkey.

OK, I don't take my car to the track. Shame on me, I'm just not one of the cool kids. We can debate for hours whether my '95 M3 is 'a real M car' or whether it will satisfy this purist definition or that. It has virtually no 'digital technology.' It has seat of the pants throttle and steering, with a short shift kit working the 5 speed is like my old Campagnolo Nuovo Record derailleur, the Dinan suspension I installed at 80k miles is hard as a rock and the car rides like a go kart. It looks beautiful and has never ceased to be fun to drive. The Dinan exhaust and airbox roar like a lion... No piped in synthetic engine sound, no bluetooth exhaust note tuning, no turbo nothing. The PSS rubber hums loudly on the original 17 inch rims. It's a relic and I love it. Maybe there's a reason people keep leaving notes whenever I park it asking if I would entertain offers.

I'm keeping it. And I'm going to love driving the M2, a completely different, 21st century digital era experience. I will not complain that it is too forgiving to get me in trouble if I push it. I will not complain because it has some of the new buzzers and bells like better lighting, a great sound system, a ton of hp and torque squeezed out of a very digitally managed turbo six. It may be the end product of a box full of compromises... And so what? A lot of judgment calls were made to bring this car in just over 50 grand, to make it a decent daily driver and a very fast and tossable car that won't embarrass itself at the track. BMW did just fine this time around. Quit yer bitchin, compadres. If you want a Porsche, by all means go buy one. Be prepared to dump about twenty large on options before you roll it off the showroom floor. De rigeur in the Land of Pooch.

Now if BMW NA would just resume importing the 3 series touring with a 6MT, instead of hawking all those damned 'sport activity vehicles' with the babymatic transmission, all would be right in the world for us merely mortal, slightly superannuated old school 20th century BMW devotees.