[Karmic Man]

Originally Posted by Artemis

2011: the wild one | 2016: the mild one.

A sign of growing up and being wiser now, my friend!

I am sure I know which one keeps your heart beating longer and faster

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by Karmic Man

A sign of growing up and being wiser now, my friend!
I am sure I know which one keeps your heart beating longer and faster

Prefab Sprout - "Goodbye Lucille #1" (1985):
"Life's not complete till your heart's missed a beat."

[doccyber]

Originally Posted by gthal

You might want to DRIVE an M2 before concluding because it also feels more connected and raw than the M4.

The M2 has made the M3/4 irrelevant!!

[dammitcubs]

Originally Posted by atxsk8r

30 MPG in the M2??? Yeah right, i would say ZERO M2 owners will average this

LOL !!! I have something to say about MPG

[doug_999]

Originally Posted by Fahrvergnügen

A year or so from now you will be able to get a used M2 with ~8-10k miles in the mid-$40s.

Wanna bet?

Seriously, I don't think that will be the case unless BMW really ramps up production.

[stefan]

Originally Posted by TreDirtyFive

Obviously this is supremely subjective but I've always felt the E46 M3 sounded like a lawnmower in dire need of maintenance...I don't believe BMW's have ever been in the upper echelon of exhaust noise but I feel they are making a much more concerted effort than they ever have due to marketplace.

Woah... woah.. agree to disagree.. to the extreme. New M cars sound lame as hell. I am of course referring to induction noise of which the 1M and M2's are strictly fake, and zero noise when not on load. So that total lack of real noise on downshifts is such a heart breaker. In no way are the new cars more audibly pleasing than the cars of old.

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

The last I checked, the 1M originally sold for LESS than the same price as the E46 M3...

http://www.autoblog.com/buy/2002-BMW-M3/

Base price of a 2002 was 45,900 but the price kept inching up about $600 every year to 48,900 by 2008.

Base price of the 1M- $46,135

http://www.autoblog.com/buy/2011-BMW-1+Series+M/





the 1M was actually less than all but a first year E46 M3 and the M2 also cheaper if you compare to the E46 ZCP. Not to mention SMG vs DCT pricing. ...

You are completely forgetting what BMW M used to be. When the E46 M3 came out it smashed records. The S54 still has one of the top 5 fastest piston speeds in the world for production cars. BMW was on the absolute top of their game and there was NO reason to get a competitor's car. The E39 was THE fastest sedan in the world back then. IMO the early 2000s were BMW M's engineering peak.

Fast forward to today, where not all the M cars are the top of their segment. Some are mid pack, or debatable. Other competitors do some things much better now.

Basically I think what he is saying is that, for M2 money back then, you were buying a car that murdered the competition and is still regarded as one of the best handling sport coupes of all time.

[OrangeCrush]

Originally Posted by N & M

I would argue the M2 does exactly that as well. The only downside is the generic interior.

I love the M2's interior and so has anyone else that has sat it. Then again, Im not used to Bentley, Maserati and the such.

And with the addition of the CF interior kit and hopefully the steering wheel, it will be AWESOME!

[OrangeCrush]

Originally Posted by stefan

Woah... woah.. agree to disagree.. to the extreme. New M cars sound lame as hell. I am of course referring to induction noise of which the 1M and M2's are strictly fake, and zero noise when not on load. So that total lack of real noise on downshifts is such a heart breaker. In no way are the new cars more audibly pleasing than the cars of old.


You are completely forgetting what BMW M used to be. When the E46 M3 came out it smashed records. The S54 still has one of the top 5 fastest piston speeds in the world for production cars. BMW was on the absolute top of their game and there was NO reason to get a competitor's car. The E39 was THE fastest sedan in the world back then. IMO the early 2000s were BMW M's engineering peak.

Fast forward to today, where not all the M cars are the top of their segment. Some are mid pack, or debatable. Other competitors do some things much better now.

Basically I think what he is saying is that, for M2 money back then, you were buying a car that murdered the competition and is still regarded as one of the best handling sport coupes of all time.

I think you need to drive the M2.

And oh yeah, as awesome as the e46 looks still today, it sounds like shit. I heard one the other day that clearly had some sort of aftermarket exhaust going on and it sounded like something was broken.

[Robin_NL]

Goodmorning and welcome to the most objective thread bimmerpost has ever seen.

When standing still the 1M already is exciting when you're in it and driving slowly it feels really like something else, a miniracer, in a way...

...the M2 you need to drive hard(er) to feel it's a really special and exciting car for the money.

Don't get me started on E36 vs E46 M3, I'm just having a laugh here.




Cheers
Robin (ex E46 M3,E90 M3,1M)

[Robin_NL]

Subjectively the M2 is one of the most beautiful Ms ever imho...(vs 1M too, the wheelarches made that car , but oh boy they worked!)

1M might be the wild one and more mechanical connected which it is, but M2 is not exactly a mild car. It's smoother, but beware

Originally Posted by Artemis

2011: the wild one | 2016: the mild one.

Cheers
Robin

[raysspl]

I guess

[Robin_NL]

Originally Posted by stefan

Basically I think what he is saying is that, for M2 money back then, you were buying a car that murdered the competition and is still regarded as one of the best handling sport coupes of all time.

And for M2 money in 2016 you go and(try to) buy an M2 and it's the same story again....the M2 is the most anticipated (over? not really) hyped //M of the last years. It also murders the 2016 competition in its own way and complete package. Or doesn't it? I think it does or what?

I had an E46 M3 before and if you say it murdered the competition back then, think again how lazy it was in real traffic vs my ex Audi S3 with 260BHP back then....

so..not saying E46 M3 was bad, au contraire, it was one of my greatest cars I ever had, I loved it, engine note was fine, but it had its flaws too, come on.
I stepped in an E87 120d 6MT and it felt just as fast irl speeds/normal driving and the E87 120d felt sometimes even more agile!That was 2004....so I got a 120d E87
Playable, no lsd, engine sucked but I had fun with it and more mpg rofl...



History is being polished a bit too much by some of us I guess

Cheers
Robin

[redux]

Originally Posted by stefan

Woah... woah.. agree to disagree.. to the extreme. New M cars sound lame as hell. I am of course referring to induction noise of which the 1M and M2's are strictly fake, and zero noise when not on load. So that total lack of real noise on downshifts is such a heart breaker. In no way are the new cars more audibly pleasing than the cars of old.


You are completely forgetting what BMW M used to be. When the E46 M3 came out it smashed records. The S54 still has one of the top 5 fastest piston speeds in the world for production cars. BMW was on the absolute top of their game and there was NO reason to get a competitor's car. The E39 was THE fastest sedan in the world back then. IMO the early 2000s were BMW M's engineering peak.

Fast forward to today, where not all the M cars are the top of their segment. Some are mid pack, or debatable. Other competitors do some things much better now.

Basically I think what he is saying is that, for M2 money back then, you were buying a car that murdered the competition and is still regarded as one of the best handling sport coupes of all time.

As a former E46 M3 owner, I can openly say that the only things that car smashed were it's rod bearings. Secondly, it was only better than the competition because the competition didn't truly care about the niche the M division created for itself (ie, "the act as if your street product are on par with Porsche by racing against them in an car only shares a name plate with what you sell" category) until M3 sales figures made it reasonable to do so. Once they did, we got the C63 and B7 RS4, and BMW got a lot more than a bloody nose. It wasn't a down fall of BMW engineering, it's the result of competition from a sector becoming profitable. Engineers can only take a product to a certain point before it's not financially viable within that sector. Which is why the category has reached a level where there is no clear cut victor.

M has not lost it's way, it's just evolved with the market. For every buyer that wants the lightweight, NA, analog experience; there 25 others that want luxury and horsepower. It's a matter of staying relevant to prospective customers.

[gthal]

Originally Posted by doccyber

The M2 has made the M3/4 irrelevant!!

Well, I might not go as far as to say that

[koastal]

Originally Posted by JoosyJoos

...Until it overheats or fails prematurely.

Not that it's as much of an issue as the older SMG models.

The DCT isnt comparable to the SMG in any shape or form.

I have subject mine to dragstrips / hillclimbs and numerous trackdays.

It has 186 000 klms on it and has barely let out a whimper. I would have been on my 5th clutch if it had the same treatment

[M3 Number 86]

Since everyone is touting about the e46.

S65. That's all I have to say. But then there is the s85 lol.

Every newer car is a better platform. This nonM future generations is nonsense

Does anyone drive a stock car here because with a few mods the newer cars are way better no if ands or buts.

[Robin_NL]

Originally Posted by M3 Number 86

Since everyone is touting about the e46.

S65. That's all I have to say. But then there is the s85 lol.

And the N54! Double the lol. Literally.

Cheers
Robin

[Fahrvergnügen]

Originally Posted by doug_999

Wanna bet?

Seriously, I don't think that will be the case unless BMW really ramps up production.

The fact is that BMW plans on producing this car for what, like 4-6 years or something? Of course there is a lot of hype (probably legitimate) for this car as it is still coming out but BMW knows how to generate excitement for its products... they are not going to flood the market with their shiny new M in its first months of production... people will lose interest in the 'specialness' and move on to one of the other great competitors (GT350, FocusRS, 718 Cayman, ...). The exact same thing happened to the M3/4 back in 2014, I couldn't get my hands on one (in a large market such as Chicago) when they first started coming out (mid-summer-ish) and they were the new cool thing to have. I had to wait and place an order in September for a delivery in December. Besides, once the M2 comp pack or M2 CSL/GTS comes out, even more reason for the market to flood and prices to go down. Obviously, I can't predict the future but this is based on past experiences and not hopeful speculation.

[MSCD]

My sons dentist picked up a Valencia Orange 1M and put a stage 2 Dinan exhaust and some engine mods. That car sounds amazing. No big exterior changes. Would buy the car based on the sound output! No doubt the M2 is a great (little) M car which the brand needs.

[doccyber]

Originally Posted by gthal

Well, I might not go as far as to say that

How about the 2 series has made the 4 series irrelevant?

[M3 Number 86]

I'm just glad that M hasn't become Quattro yet. Let's hope it never does because I remember that guy talking about AWD. I miss Albert.

[confusion]

Originally Posted by OrangeCrush

I love the M2's interior and so has anyone else that has sat it. Then again, Im not used to Bentley, Maserati and the such.

And with the addition of the CF interior kit and hopefully the steering wheel, it will be AWESOME!

The interior is ok but Dakota leather is garbage. I wish the car came with or at least had the option to get Nappa.