[Benzima]

Again this debate...

[ORIGIN M.]

Originally Posted by Diver

Fun stuff, but 1M's are scarce and relatively expensive for a used car.

1M was then...

M2 is now !

[M3 Number 86]

Originally Posted by gthal

Can't and don't are two very different things.

One hooligan session in a BMW Club track day and likely the driver isn't allowed back on the track that weekend where I come from (and rightfully so IMO). Groups that are out hooliganing around aren't groups I take my expensive street cars to participate in. I'll leave those track days to the beat to crap Civics, Miata's etc... or to those with nice cars that don't give a crap

That's I don't ride with Bmw club. Bunch of boring folks that only don't allow hooning for students but themselves can lol. And in my check off ride somebody turned my traction control back on. That was retarded.

By the way when I said you can't - it was a term for the general population of track goers and not you specifically.

Can you even hoon in a crap Honda or Miata at all?

And are you saying hooning is not safe? That's just wrong.

[N & M]

Originally Posted by doccyber

The Z4M and the e46 M3 were the last of the true M cars. Why? Because they were lots of fun to drive and handled better than cars 2 to 3 times their price range.

I would argue the M2 does exactly that as well. The only downside is the generic interior.

[gthal]

Originally Posted by M3 Number 86

That's I don't ride with Bmw club. Bunch of boring folks that only don't allow hooning for students but themselves can lol. And in my check off ride somebody turned my traction control back on. That was retarded.

By the way when I said you can't - it was a term for the general population of track goers and not you specifically.

Can you even hoon in a crap Honda or Miata at all?

And are you saying hooning is not safe? That's just wrong.

Yes, as a general rule, I don't thinking hooning is safe. Why? Because most people who would try it aren't good enough to do it and I don't want to be anywhere near them. If someone has really mastered car control and are on the track and not in traffic, then sure, not much worse than any other track stuff you do. Taking a turn sideways on purpose may be no problem for some... but big problems for others... and many don't know the difference or can't really self evaluate their own skill to know whether they can actually do it safely. So, IMO, it's not "wrong" to say hooning isn't safe Maybe I should clarify that it's only safe for a small, select few

[M3 Number 86]

Originally Posted by gthal

Yes, as a general rule, I don't thinking hooning is safe. Why? Because most people who would try it aren't good enough to do it and I don't want to be anywhere near them. If someone has really mastered car control and are on the track and not in traffic, then sure, not much worse than any other track stuff you do. Taking a turn sideways on purpose may be no problem for some... but big problems for others... and many don't know the difference or can't really self evaluate their own skill to know whether they can actually do it safely. So, IMO, it's not "wrong" to say hooning isn't safe Maybe I should clarify that it's only safe for a small, select few

That's why we have different run groups

I like to hoon with 10 cars/friends in the last session.

I don't think it's as little people as you think though. I have a lot more giggles doing this at the end of the day with street tires vs going for lap times. I've been black flagged plenty of times and some tracks (not the organizer) just don't like it

[MParallel]

I like the 1M so much better (looks).

[MParallel]

Originally Posted by doccyber

The Z4M and the e46 M3 were the last of the true M cars. Why? Because they were lots of fun to drive and handled better than cars 2 to 3 times their price range.

I would argue the E36 is the last. Wire throttle, mechanical slip diff, no DSC or any kind of traction control. And an engine nearly as good as the S54.

[ClothSeats]

I don't remember the E46 handling better than $100-150k sports cars. That is 911 price range. In the mid 2000's, an Evo or STI could be built into an M3 killer for a lot less money. Kind of like Mustang and Camaro now.

The appeal of M3 was its all-around ability (looks, interior, ride quality, feedback, practicality, track performance) which still applies today.

[Fahrvergnügen]

Originally Posted by MParallel

I would argue the E36 is the last. Wire throttle, mechanical slip diff, no DSC or any kind of traction control. And an engine nearly as good as the S54.

By "wire throttle" you mean Drive by Cable, right? Not DBW.

[Haywood]

I think I'd still take the 1M. I've driven it and loved it. Haven't driven the M2 yet, but the 1M just has a more connected, manual feel to it to say a M4 I've driven. I will always kick myself for not waiting for the 1M as I was coming off a lease and got another 135 at the time. Ugh.

[gthal]

Originally Posted by Haywood

I think I'd still take the 1M. I've driven it and loved it. Haven't driven the M2 yet, but the 1M just has a more connected, manual feel to it to say a M4 I've driven. I will always kick myself for not waiting for the 1M as I was coming off a lease and got another 135 at the time. Ugh.

You might want to DRIVE an M2 before concluding because it also feels more connected and raw than the M4.

[Haywood]

Originally Posted by gthal

You might want to DRIVE an M2 before concluding because it also feels more connected and raw than the M4.

Oh, I definitely will. I was just comparing against the M4 which left me a bit underwhelmed. If I do ever get rid of my e92, it will definitely be for a M2.

[MParallel]

Originally Posted by Fahrvergnügen

By "wire throttle" you mean Drive by Cable, right? Not DBW.

Yeah, bit of a bad choice of words. I meant cable throttle. With your foot opening the butterflies, not an actuator.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by doccyber

The Z4M and the e46 M3 were the last of the true M cars. Why? Because they were lots of fun to drive and handled better than cars 2 to 3 times their price range.

The last I checked, the 1M originally sold for LESS than the same price as the E46 M3...

http://www.autoblog.com/buy/2002-BMW-M3/

Base price of a 2002 was 45,900 but the price kept inching up about $600 every year to 48,900 by 2008.

Base price of the 1M- $46,135

http://www.autoblog.com/buy/2011-BMW-1+Series+M/





the 1M was actually less than all but a first year E46 M3 and the M2 also cheaper if you compare to the E46 ZCP. Not to mention SMG vs DCT pricing. ...

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by AGAV13

I still lust after a 1M, having driven several sessions on track with a M2.

Blasphemy ! Oh wait. Yes. Me too.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by balloonsalesman

Although I would never trade my 1M for an M2, I would much rather have it as a daily driver, and keep the 1M as a weekend car. Couldn't care less about the lap times, but if the M2 is more forgiving and refined yet still that much quicker I don't see any downsides.

Can't understand why anyone would hate on either car, they are both insane for what they are. At the end of the day it just so happens that the 1M is more raw/'old school', holds its value, and will always be more rare.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by MParallel

I would argue the E36 is the last. Wire throttle, mechanical slip diff, no DSC or any kind of traction control. And an engine nearly as good as the S54.

That's funny .. The E36 does have traction control. It was so lousy you just turned if off all the time ..

But since you went there ,, by your definition then, that pretty much leaves the " last of the true M car "as the first generation E30 M3, E24 M6, E28 M5 and the M1.

[M3 Number 86]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

That's funny .. The E36 does have traction control. It was so lousy you just turned if off all the time ..

But since you went there ,, by your definition then, that pretty much leaves the " last of the true M car "as the first generation E30 M3, E24 M6, E28 M5 and the M1.

let's just say the F series were the death. lol

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by M3 Number 86

let's just say the F series were the death. lol

[Artemis]

Sunny day and there you go: an eeny, meeny, miny, moe First World Problem...

[Artemis]

2011: the wild one | 2016: the mild one.