[Bimmed Out]

Originally Posted by VisualEcho

I could possibly actually own a DCT in the future. Maybe I'm just getting old.

Think it over during your next colonoscopy.

[mr_lab_rat]

It took some getting used to. I adapted to shifting/dumping the clutch quicker and letting the DME + clutch delay valve do its thing.

So I can drive the M2 smooth now but when I get in another car I look like an idiot

[Arregueti]

I think I can relate to what you say/feel.

For some perspective, this is what I currently own (all manuals):

2002 Mx-5 (NB 2.5), from new, 150,000 kms.
2006 325 xi (E90). also from new, 195,000 kms.
2012 Lotus Evora S, currently at 53,000 kms out of which I did 35,000 kms.
(I recognised you from your photography thread in TLF. Great stuff!)
2018 LCI M2, from new, currently at 9000 kms.

I think that the M2's MT gets better with use but is not perfect. I agree that clutch travel is too long but, funny enough, I find it is better for smooth driving and a better box overall than the one in the 325 (admittedly at almost 200,000 kms. now...) so there is some hope for BMW, IMvHO.

My complain is rather about those moments when I am pushing. I have found myself missing a couple of gear changes when driving spiritedly in bendy roads (2nd to 3rd normally), which made me wonder whether for a focused mountain drive with fast direction changes the DCT could actually be better. Again, clutch travel and arm move required for a gear change in the M2 is too long for my liking.

All in all it is good enough for me but I think it does not get to the "mechanical delicacy" and involvement level of the Evora S (which, to be fair, improved substantially when I had new gear cables installed and set properly).

I think it is generally a good box but does not like to be in a hurry. It is getting better with time, though. Or I am learning/adapting to it.

Just my 2p. obviously.

[VisualEcho]

Thanks for the responses guys. I guess it's something I'll get used to. I'm not unhappy with the car at all, it just seems like with all the nannies it'd be easier to drive smoothly.

[medphysdave]

A clutch pedal stop would be a must. I added one to my Miata. Night and day difference. Before this mod it felt like the clutch travel in a pickup truck. It's a very cheap upgrade that makes a world of difference.

It will be interesting to see if they address little things like clutch travel in the CS.

[twin fed]

I think that it is a very smooth shifting car. I do agree that the throw could be a bit shorter, and that can be remedied with a SSK, but I really don't see the need, especially on the street. As for the clutch, it is a bit long in the travel and I do have the clutch stop, but rarely to I push the clutch to the stop anyway. I do not daily the M2, but when I do drive it there is a lot of traffic for me to contend with and it gets kind of annoying and I wonder what it would be like to have a DCT. That being said when all things are free and clear it is one of the most fun cars to drive on the open road. In the future, I may be contemplating selling the M2 and when my lease is up on my 2018 Accord, getting the next gen M3 with DCT and AWD. But that might be a long shot. And I would still have my trusty 85 911 with G50 manual trans when I need that shifting feeling.

[VisualEcho]

Originally Posted by medphysdave

A clutch pedal stop would be a must. I added one to my Miata. Night and day difference. Before this mod it felt like the clutch travel in a pickup truck. It's a very cheap upgrade that makes a world of difference.

It will be interesting to see if they address little things like clutch travel in the CS.

I got the clutch stop, and it's fantastic.

[Ftpohyeah]

I cant really comment because i drive with DSC off 97% of the time and in eco mode. Ill drive in sport mode only if traffic is light enough.

I very rarely drive with sport+ with DSC on, its my M1 button. I only activate my M1 when im going consistently over 80 mph and on roads that curves and turns, which it only happened twice, ever.

But the shifting without the cars help is actually really smooth. One of the best feeling is when you up shift near perfect and the car just pounces forward while the engine roars! Is that the same feeling as paddle shifters? If so i have no problem driving paddle shifted cars

[TemjinX2]

Originally Posted by Poochie

After awhile, like everything else, it becomes second nature.

And the fact that there is a clutch position sensor built into the system, the play within the engagement point is by design, not a flaw.

After all, this vehicle engineered to be a street car, driven by the average driver, not Jeff Gordon on a racetrack.

i understand anyone can get use to it and i understand why they included the extra play, but at the same time they should understand most people buying a 60k manual M are not going to use it learn to drive manual on and more then likely experienced manual drivers.

i understand the car was designed with dct in mind and the manual was a after thought, but at 60k BMW should also have optimized the manual as well.

[medphysdave]

MT performance/feel can be dramatically impacted by the gear oil used. Ford makes an excellent synthetic as does amsoil.

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by TemjinX2

i understand anyone can get use to it and i understand why they included the extra play, but at the same time they should understand most people buying a 60k manual M are not going to use it learn to drive manual on and more then likely experienced manual drivers.

i understand the car was designed with dct in mind and the manual was a after thought, but at 60k BMW should also have optimized the manual as well.

Sort of agree with you but the core manual transmission technology hasn't changed in decades; in fact, the M2 using the same exact clutch set up as the E92 335is and last generation 550i from over 10 years ago.

I believe BMW is just riding out the demand for a manual until they go all electric in 2030 and they don't plan to spend any resources in revising it.

I'm just enjoying it while it last, for better or worst.

[dab1981]

This thread has me a little worried! I'm planning on ordering a M2C with 6MT. I currently have an E90 328i 6MT and I'm used to it. Is the M2's manual much different? I was assuming they were going to be fairly similar and that it wouldn't be an issue.

[Moflow]

Originally Posted by VisualEcho

It was never about what anyone thought about me, I just prefer a manual, but this car seems to be a bit harder to drive smoothly. If I had it to do over again I'd still get the manual.

Sorry, my statement wasn't meant to be directed specifically at you, more just a general stance when people start in on the Manual vs Auto debate. I also have and prefer manuals, i just don't want to be hating on people who have a different preference.

I believe BMW is just riding out the demand for a manual until they go all electric in 2030 and they don't plan to spend any resources in revising it.

I'm just enjoying it while it last, for better or worst.

Agreed. This was a large factor in my decision to purchase the car. It could be one of the last really good M/T cars produced. I want in on that.

[MI_Joe]

Jumping into the conversation somewhat late... but my answer is an emphatic "No". I found the car easy to drive smoothly right from that initial shift into first.

[Q_Subsub]

I think its one of the easier cars to drive smoothly, if you're in the right mode. I find it SO much easier to drive smoothly in sport+ mode than comfort because comfort mode throttle response is quite lazy.

[VisualEcho]

Originally Posted by Q_Subsub

I think its one of the easier cars to drive smoothly, if you're in the right mode. I find it SO much easier to drive smoothly in sport+ mode than comfort because comfort mode throttle response is quite lazy.

Wow, I find it just the opposite. Don't get me wrong, I hate the throttle feel in comfort mode, but Sport+ is just too damn sensitive unless you're really on it. But I guess that's the point of Sport+.

[DCrew]

Interesting thread. I kind of agree with the OP. My complaint is more with the clutch, specifically having it engage smoothly after aggressive 1-2 and 2-3 upshifts. I don't do money shifts -- that technique might make it easier.

I've had a number of BMW's, including E30 and E36 M3's. They were very easy to drive, but shifting my E39 540i was similar to this car. On the other hand, my S2000 and Focus RS are fabulous and don't have any of this tendency. If my '18 M2 were the only car I drive, I would probably have fewer difficulties.

[silverds]

All else being equal, the DCT costs $2900 more than a manual.

To me, its the automotive equivalent of fake tits. I don't care how great they are, I don't care for 'em and I definitely don't wanna pay extra for 'em.

[dvas]

Originally Posted by cptobvious

Oh no... now you've gone and done it! Get ready for 18 pages of manual versus automatic hate-fest! By the end of this thread, 31 forum members will have been banned for threatening to shiv other members.



OP, I had EXACTLY the same experience. I was one of those DIE-HARD MT for life guys. My last 3 cars I custom ordered and waited 12 weeks for each, in order to get the MT.

One day, I'm hanging out on this forum, and another member posts that there's a HS M2C sitting on the lot at a dealer near me. Unfortunately, it's DCT, and only scumbags get DCT, so no way am I going to buy the car. Just going to see HS in the metal. I get there, test drive the car, and the sales guy tells me that it's available for MSRP - this was back when there was ZERO supply and most dealerships were charging $5k to $10k markups. I tell him I love the car, but can't buy it because DCT is for scumbags only. He says, "Have you test driven the 6MT in an M2?" I say, "No, why?" He says, "Let's go for a test drive in a 6MT."

We get in and I'm jerking around like a clown riding a mechanical bull. Now, maybe it's because I just truly, truly suck at manual. But, I don't think so. I mean, you know, maybe I suck a little, but not THAT much! Sales guy tells me that he used to be a hardcore MT guy too, but that he spec'ed his M3 with DCT, because a) he's a scumbag, and b) his interpretation is that with that much torque, modern cars are designed specifically with DCT and auto transmissions in mind, and only later do they retrofit MT. Don't know if that's true or not, but that was his speculation.

All I can say is that, a) yes, I do suck at MT, clearly, b) I immediately bought that HS DCT M2C on the spot, and c) yes, I do freely admit that I am a scumbag now.

I never thought I'd say this, but I LOVE the DCT, and going forward, am never looking back.

Sounds like an excellent salesperson. :lol

To the OP, I'm surprised to read that you rate the M2 shifting below the Lotus. I've never had issues in my M2, whether on the street or track. It's not Porsche "bolt-action" feel, but I find it pretty good and consistent. My Dad has an Elise and I struggle with that shifter. I feel like the linkages are too long and constantly need adjustment.

[VisualEcho]

Originally Posted by dvas

To the OP, I'm surprised to read that you rate the M2 shifting below the Lotus. My Dad has an Elise and I struggle with that shifter. I feel like the linkages are too long and constantly need adjustment.

I don't rate it below the Lotus, I was just listing my last few manual cars. The Lotus isn't so great, if I'm honest, and certainly below the M2 (but still easier to drive smoothly). The S2000 was the top, especially with a few shifter mods, followed by both my previous Miata's, then the STi.

[OG Shark]

CDV removal made a huge difference for me. I am definitely smoother after it was removed (key is *I* as I feel I was the cause of any unsmoothness before). This combined with a CAE shifter and the shifting is absolutely sublime - both on the track & the street. I considered the stock setup a negative on the car - now the 6MT is one of the biggest positives about this specific car to me. OG LCI M2.

[Moflow]

Originally Posted by dvas

Sounds like an excellent salesperson. :lol

To the OP, I'm surprised to read that you rate the M2 shifting below the Lotus. I've never had issues in my M2, whether on the street or track. It's not Porsche "bolt-action" feel, but I find it pretty good and consistent. My Dad has an Elise and I struggle with that shifter. I feel like the linkages are too long and constantly need adjustment.

A couple of former co-workers of mine drove elises and they both complained about shift quality. Apparently the only REAL fix is a massive, crazily well braced, thousand dollar plus aftermarket unit.

Bummer because i've driven 7th gen celicas with that drivetrain and the transmission its self offers pretty good quality shifts in FWD form with different linkage.