BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
BMW M2 Forum > M2 vs... > Not a Fastest in Straight Line

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      07-07-2019, 12:14 PM   #45
boostm3
Lieutenant Colonel
boostm3's Avatar
683
Rep
1,608
Posts

Drives: '18 LBB M2 6MT Exec
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Parkland, Fl

iTrader: (0)

Wow..A long, well thought out, and documented post! Many thanks.
Appreciate 0
      07-07-2019, 12:26 PM   #46
AlpsRider
Brigadier General
AlpsRider's Avatar
2858
Rep
3,840
Posts

Drives: M2 Competition, LBB, 6MT
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Earth

iTrader: (0)

Dude! Clearly you are a skilled debater and spent quite a bit of time writing that post to validate your purchase.
Enjoy your M3 Tesla.

Last edited by AlpsRider; 07-07-2019 at 12:38 PM..
Appreciate 1
Robin_NL8679.50
      07-07-2019, 12:33 PM   #47
aerokubectl
Major
905
Rep
1,017
Posts

Drives: M2C
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (0)

The worst thing about a Tesla is being associated with all the other Tesla drivers. They drive well below the speed limit hardly accelerating to preserve that range.

It's hideous AF inside and out. People look so goofy driving them, almost like a waymo car.

The only thing appealing is the infotainment system which I'm a fan of. Everything being a digital control is fail though.
Appreciate 1
Robin_NL8679.50
      07-07-2019, 12:38 PM   #48
aerokubectl
Major
905
Rep
1,017
Posts

Drives: M2C
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by boostm3 View Post
Thats the thing. . What'a there to work on really? No oil, No gears, No engine cooling, no transmission, no exhaust system, etc. Even the brakes hardly ever need service because most of the braking comes from the regen system. Aside from the odd electrical gremlin, there's precious little to work on from a conventional standpoint.
No oil no gears.

Do you even physics ?
Appreciate 0
      07-07-2019, 12:47 PM   #49
boostm3
Lieutenant Colonel
boostm3's Avatar
683
Rep
1,608
Posts

Drives: '18 LBB M2 6MT Exec
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Parkland, Fl

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by spetsnazos View Post
No oil no gears.

Do you even physics ?
Do you? Maybe there are plugs and coils to change too? Tranny fluid to change? Filters? Blinker fluid?

Last edited by boostm3; 07-07-2019 at 01:16 PM..
Appreciate 0
      07-07-2019, 02:10 PM   #50
akkando
Major General
akkando's Avatar
5860
Rep
6,631
Posts

Drives: 17 M2 DCT LBB,11 e90 M3 ZCP IB
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Bay Area

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by boostm3 View Post
Thats the thing. . What'a there to work on really? No oil, No gears, No engine cooling, no transmission, no exhaust system, etc. Even the brakes hardly ever need service because most of the braking comes from the regen system. Aside from the odd electrical gremlin, there's precious little to work on from a conventional standpoint.
Seems that there’s a fair amount of things...and not too long after leaving the factory either. I would certainly wonder about these babies in the long term.

https://www.consumerreports.org/car-...bility-issues/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/techn...=.46c635ff6591

https://insideevs.com/news/337959/ed...ons-of-issues/
Just saw this article pop up in my feed


"Whilst this makes clear that Krüger has deemed it wise to remain on the fence, BMW’s sedan sales have fallen off a cliff in the US market over the past 12 months directly as a result of Tesla’s fully electric Model 3. As we predicted early on and have frequently documented over the past year, the Tesla Model 3 has stolen significant US market share in the premium sedan segment."

https://cleantechnica.com/2019/07/07...-in-the-towel/
Appreciate 1
boostm3683.00
      07-07-2019, 03:07 PM   #51
boostm3
Lieutenant Colonel
boostm3's Avatar
683
Rep
1,608
Posts

Drives: '18 LBB M2 6MT Exec
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Parkland, Fl

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by akkando View Post
Just saw this article pop up in my feed


"Whilst this makes clear that Krüger has deemed it wise to remain on the fence, BMW’s sedan sales have fallen off a cliff in the US market over the past 12 months directly as a result of Tesla’s fully electric Model 3. As we predicted early on and have frequently documented over the past year, the Tesla Model 3 has stolen significant US market share in the premium sedan segment."

https://cleantechnica.com/2019/07/07...-in-the-towel/
Thanks for that find.. However, gotta consider the source.
__________________
Boostm3
'18 LBB MT M2 Exec pkg, Moonroof, Production 7/6/17
Appreciate 0
      07-07-2019, 04:02 PM   #52
CompetentAccountant
New Member
CompetentAccountant's Avatar
20
Rep
23
Posts

Drives: 2019 Tesla Model 3 LR AWD
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: South FL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlpsRider View Post
Dude! Clearly you are a skilled debater and spent quite a bit of time writing that post to validate your purchase.
Enjoy your M3 Tesla.
Thanks, I think? I didn't write to 'validate' my purchase. My purchase is right for me, it's not right for others. My motivation was simply to reduce misinformation or at least put things in proper context.

Cute that you call the Model 3 an M3 though... I guess there's a bit of poetry there that I went from a BMW M3 to a Tesla "M3."

Quote:
Originally Posted by spetsnazos View Post
The worst thing about a Tesla is being associated with all the other Tesla drivers. They drive well below the speed limit hardly accelerating to preserve that range.

It's hideous AF inside and out. People look so goofy driving them, almost like a waymo car.

The only thing appealing is the infotainment system which I'm a fan of. Everything being a digital control is fail though.
LOL more irony... I was/am a BMW guy... you know how many BMW stereotypes there are?

If you're worried about associations and what others think then you may want to sell your car...

https://www.bmwblog.com/2015/10/20/w...hated-so-much/

Quote:
Originally Posted by spetsnazos View Post
No oil no gears.

Do you even physics ?
Correct, no oil or gears. I physics

Quote:
Originally Posted by akkando View Post
Just saw this article pop up in my feed


"Whilst this makes clear that Krüger has deemed it wise to remain on the fence, BMW’s sedan sales have fallen off a cliff in the US market over the past 12 months directly as a result of Tesla’s fully electric Model 3. As we predicted early on and have frequently documented over the past year, the Tesla Model 3 has stolen significant US market share in the premium sedan segment."

https://cleantechnica.com/2019/07/07...-in-the-towel/
Just read that... very interesting. Tesla certainly pulled me away from BMW.

Probably not something for this thread, but BMW in many ways has been going down hill. I'm still a fan, but no longer of the entire marquee, just certain cars (today, just the M2).
__________________
Board Certified Competent Public Accountant
"When you run in debt; you give to another power over your liberty"
- Benjamin Franklin
Appreciate 0
      07-08-2019, 12:41 AM   #53
chris719
Major General
7273
Rep
7,252
Posts

Drives: '08 M Roadster
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: NJ

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlpsRider View Post
Dude! Clearly you are a skilled debater and spent quite a bit of time writing that post to validate your purchase.
Enjoy your M3 Tesla.
It seemed pretty balanced to me. I own none and I will buy another M car or Porsche before I buy any Tesla, fwiw.

However, I think a lot of people who haven't driven or been in one judge it because of the cult of Elon and the insufferable fanboy atmosphere that they have.

Having experienced a Model S, I would say that it is worrying that the rest of the industry hasn't learned lessons from Tesla yet. Yes, Tesla sucks at the mundane stuff like production, DFM, interior quality, etc. Those are relatively easy to improve and have been since the earlier cars. The rest of the industry is way behind in their concept of software and electronics and how they integrate with the vehicle. They are also behind on EV powertrain and possibly battery development.

Companies like VW and GM should have been able to put Tesla out of business already, but they can't maneuver under their own weight and the culture of the established auto industry. They barely design their own components, they sub it out to Bosch, what was Delphi, etc. I wonder how many DMEs in German cars have firmware actually written by Bosch? Probably every single one. Hard to make the best product or gain a competitive advantage when you have to wait for your supplier to innovate on a lot of key parts.

BMW thinks software innovation is charging you a subscription fee for CarPlay.
Appreciate 2
      07-08-2019, 11:19 AM   #54
dmboone25
Lieutenant General
dmboone25's Avatar
4971
Rep
10,200
Posts

Drives: 2024 Golf R / 2022 718 Spyder
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Dallas, TX

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2007 E92 328i  [10.00]
2007 328i  [10.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
It seemed pretty balanced to me. I own none and I will buy another M car or Porsche before I buy any Tesla, fwiw.

However, I think a lot of people who haven't driven or been in one judge it because of the cult of Elon and the insufferable fanboy atmosphere that they have.

Having experienced a Model S, I would say that it is worrying that the rest of the industry hasn't learned lessons from Tesla yet. Yes, Tesla sucks at the mundane stuff like production, DFM, interior quality, etc. Those are relatively easy to improve and have been since the earlier cars. The rest of the industry is way behind in their concept of software and electronics and how they integrate with the vehicle. They are also behind on EV powertrain and possibly battery development.

Companies like VW and GM should have been able to put Tesla out of business already, but they can't maneuver under their own weight and the culture of the established auto industry. They barely design their own components, they sub it out to Bosch, what was Delphi, etc. I wonder how many DMEs in German cars have firmware actually written by Bosch? Probably every single one. Hard to make the best product or gain a competitive advantage when you have to wait for your supplier to innovate on a lot of key parts.

BMW thinks software innovation is charging you a subscription fee for CarPlay.
Definitely fair points - I have been in a few Teslas, and there's no doubt about the insane speed and impressive software. The speed, to me, isn't fun more than a few times without other attributes that I appreciate in a fast car (the sound of the engine, the tone of the exhaust, the mechanical changing of gears, etc.) so I am not sure that would keep me interested for long.

And because I tend to focus on driving when I am behind the wheel of whatever car I happen to be in, the tech stuff isn't that important to me either. Hell, I only turned on the stereo in my 981 a few times because I wanted to listen to the F6 howl.

Even the F80, with it's divisive exhaust note, is something that matters more to me than an ipad-like interface inside the car. But maybe I am just getting old...
__________________
Past rides: 2016 981 BGTS, 2020 MINI JCW, 2017 F80, 2015 981 CS, 2014 F22 235, 2011 E82 135, 2008 E82 135, 2007 E92 328, 2007 E92 328 (My lady drives an OG M2. So does my dad)
Appreciate 2
Robin_NL8679.50
      07-08-2019, 11:37 AM   #55
chris719
Major General
7273
Rep
7,252
Posts

Drives: '08 M Roadster
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: NJ

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post
Definitely fair points - I have been in a few Teslas, and there's no doubt about the insane speed and impressive software. The speed, to me, isn't fun more than a few times without other attributes that I appreciate in a fast car (the sound of the engine, the tone of the exhaust, the mechanical changing of gears, etc.) so I am not sure that would keep me interested for long.

And because I tend to focus on driving when I am behind the wheel of whatever car I happen to be in, the tech stuff isn't that important to me either. Hell, I only turned on the stereo in my 981 a few times because I wanted to listen to the F6 howl.

Even the F80, with it's divisive exhaust note, is something that matters more to me than an ipad-like interface inside the car. But maybe I am just getting old...
It’s always going to be quiet with an EV unless they start making noises for pedestrians, but I did notice that you can really hear the tires / road in a Tesla. More than you would in an ICE car for sure. It’s actually kind of nice, though I’m sure owners complain about it.
Appreciate 0
      07-08-2019, 11:49 AM   #56
boostm3
Lieutenant Colonel
boostm3's Avatar
683
Rep
1,608
Posts

Drives: '18 LBB M2 6MT Exec
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Parkland, Fl

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
It’s always going to be quiet with an EV unless they start making noises for pedestrians, but I did notice that you can really hear the tires / road in a Tesla. More than you would in an ICE car for sure. It’s actually kind of nice, though I’m sure owners complain about it.
When BMW felt that their cars were too quiet for their customer, what did they do? Pumped fake manufactured ASD sound into the cabin. I certainly hope Tesla doesnt follow suit, and I dont imagine they would. Analytics must have shown BMW that their customers prefer it, although judging from the reactions here, its hard to fathom.
__________________
Boostm3
'18 LBB MT M2 Exec pkg, Moonroof, Production 7/6/17

Last edited by boostm3; 07-08-2019 at 12:37 PM..
Appreciate 0
      07-08-2019, 02:21 PM   #57
rjd598
Banned
United_States
1770
Rep
6,696
Posts

Drives: F30 340i
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: San Diego,CA

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2016 BMW 340i  [0.00]
it's amazing how narrow minded some people are on this thread and how open minded others are. i highly suggest you do REAL research on tesla before opening your mouths lol
Appreciate 0
      07-08-2019, 02:28 PM   #58
Picoschu
Private First Class
108
Rep
120
Posts

Drives: 03 E39 M5, 01 325iT, 17 328dxT
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Austin, TX

iTrader: (0)

This was an interesting video

Appreciate 0
      07-08-2019, 06:11 PM   #59
CosmosMpower
Brigadier General
CosmosMpower's Avatar
2049
Rep
3,714
Posts

Drives: F87c, GT3, MK7 GTI
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Frisco, TX

iTrader: (1)

Model 3 is fast as hell till 100 mph then meh after that. It's kind of boring to drive on the street and the interior is non-existent/cheap. To me it's like a GT-R, fast in a straight line, lots of traction and sucky otherwise as a car.
Appreciate 2
DETRoadster11446.00
Robin_NL8679.50
      07-08-2019, 06:24 PM   #60
DETRoadster
Space Force - 4 Star General
DETRoadster's Avatar
11446
Rep
3,264
Posts

Drives: M2 MG 6MT / Moto Guzzi V7
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Seattle

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmosMpower View Post
Model 3 is fast as hell till 100 mph then meh after that. It's kind of boring to drive on the street and the interior is non-existent/cheap. To me it's like a GT-R, fast in a straight line, lots of traction and sucky otherwise as a car.
I was behind one on the way to the Oregon coast for the 4th of July. We were both stuck behind a slow SUV. Got into a straight with room to pass and he goes for it and so do I. I was flat out in the M2 (Fabspeed + Dinan Sport Tuner on Sport Mode). He wasn't pulling on me but I sure wasn't reeling him in either. We were pretty well matched. I think we hit about 90 MPH then we both backed off.
Appreciate 0
      07-08-2019, 07:30 PM   #61
CosmosMpower
Brigadier General
CosmosMpower's Avatar
2049
Rep
3,714
Posts

Drives: F87c, GT3, MK7 GTI
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Frisco, TX

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DETRoadster View Post
I was behind one on the way to the Oregon coast for the 4th of July. We were both stuck behind a slow SUV. Got into a straight with room to pass and he goes for it and so do I. I was flat out in the M2 (Fabspeed + Dinan Sport Tuner on Sport Mode). He wasn't pulling on me but I sure wasn't reeling him in either. We were pretty well matched. I think we hit about 90 MPH then we both backed off.
Guarantee it wasn't a dual motor performance then. I was lent a model 3 performance dual motor and ran a friends pure stage 2 F80 with all boltons, tune, DCT and the Tesla destroyed him from a stop and 30 mph roll to 100.
Appreciate 1
      07-08-2019, 07:58 PM   #62
CompetentAccountant
New Member
CompetentAccountant's Avatar
20
Rep
23
Posts

Drives: 2019 Tesla Model 3 LR AWD
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: South FL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post
Definitely fair points - I have been in a few Teslas, and there's no doubt about the insane speed and impressive software. The speed, to me, isn't fun more than a few times without other attributes that I appreciate in a fast car (the sound of the engine, the tone of the exhaust, the mechanical changing of gears, etc.) so I am not sure that would keep me interested for long.

And because I tend to focus on driving when I am behind the wheel of whatever car I happen to be in, the tech stuff isn't that important to me either. Hell, I only turned on the stereo in my 981 a few times because I wanted to listen to the F6 howl.

Even the F80, with it's divisive exhaust note, is something that matters more to me than an ipad-like interface inside the car. But maybe I am just getting old...
I can totally relate. When I'm at the track I love hearing the engine singing near redline, without cats to muffle the exhaust. The huge thud from the tail pipe, with flames shooting out for good measure, as I downshift. And so much more. It's an exhilarating experience and I also get complete tunnel vision. There's not enough bandwidth to think about anything else when you're at the limit.

However, on the street? Meh... you just can't exercise (even a stock) performance car with any type of serious power on the street. In a straight line? Sure, you can hit redline in a couple of gears and then you're past any speed limit anyway. Twisties? I mean how fast can you really go? Tesla definitely satisfies there, minus the exhaust note.

I guess all I'm saying is: horses for courses. I personally have little desire to drive an EV on the track. I know people track the Model 3 Performance, but I don't understand it. Similarly, I think it would be hard for me to go back to an ICE car as a DD.

Obviously that's not how everyone thinks and choice is great. I just think a lot of people are dismissive of Tesla's for all the wrong reasons. They're excellent DD's.
__________________
Board Certified Competent Public Accountant
"When you run in debt; you give to another power over your liberty"
- Benjamin Franklin
Appreciate 0
      07-08-2019, 08:03 PM   #63
CompetentAccountant
New Member
CompetentAccountant's Avatar
20
Rep
23
Posts

Drives: 2019 Tesla Model 3 LR AWD
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: South FL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DETRoadster View Post
I was behind one on the way to the Oregon coast for the 4th of July. We were both stuck behind a slow SUV. Got into a straight with room to pass and he goes for it and so do I. I was flat out in the M2 (Fabspeed + Dinan Sport Tuner on Sport Mode). He wasn't pulling on me but I sure wasn't reeling him in either. We were pretty well matched. I think we hit about 90 MPH then we both backed off.
My friend and I did a similar test on the highway. My LR AWD vs his M2... pretty even, I pulled away when he shifted gears, but that's about it. We tried different gears to see if it would make a difference, but no. I would also pull away at the very beginning due to the minimal turbo lag.... but again, not much. If memory serves, typically beat him by 1/2 - 1 car lengths. We tried a bunch of speeds from ~40 to ~120-130mph, etc.

EDIT: I believe this was prior to the 5% power increase. We may have to repeat the same test and record it this time.... stay tuned!

EDIT #2.... performance:

__________________
Board Certified Competent Public Accountant
"When you run in debt; you give to another power over your liberty"
- Benjamin Franklin

Last edited by CompetentAccountant; 07-08-2019 at 08:17 PM..
Appreciate 2
chris7197273.00
DETRoadster11446.00
      07-08-2019, 09:26 PM   #64
DETRoadster
Space Force - 4 Star General
DETRoadster's Avatar
11446
Rep
3,264
Posts

Drives: M2 MG 6MT / Moto Guzzi V7
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Seattle

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmosMpower View Post
Guarantee it wasn't a dual motor performance then. I was lent a model 3 performance dual motor and ran a friends pure stage 2 F80 with all boltons, tune, DCT and the Tesla destroyed him from a stop and 30 mph roll to 100.
it was not. it was a stripped down POS, base model, 3 with some geriatric dude behind the wheel.
Appreciate 0
      07-13-2019, 08:55 AM   #65
akkando
Major General
akkando's Avatar
5860
Rep
6,631
Posts

Drives: 17 M2 DCT LBB,11 e90 M3 ZCP IB
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Bay Area

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
Got any data to support your statement on cost of ownership? The batteries don't need to be replaced so far that I've ever heard of. They are conservative on the state-of-charge management. My co-worker has 100k on his Model S and no issues with the powertrain. It's not like you get bargain service or parts on a BMW either.

https://www.tesla.com/supercharger

Seems like several of them in Chicago, and these are only Tesla's own.

I wouldn't buy one personally just yet, and maybe they don't work if you live in Montana, but they are already enough for most of the population.
No data, I was just asking the question - but with that being said, I don't see advertisements for Tesla battery maintenance anywhere. Or other manufacturers either. I'm not suggesting the batteries or the car is faulty in any way - I'm wondering how easily a normal person can locate someone to work on the car, besides the dealer, should something go wrong. That's the total ownership cost to which I refer.

I see few Teslas around here - maybe I'm not in the techy part of the area...who knows.
I saw these three Tesla's in front of me on the way to work thought of you and took a pic. There were also two more behind be within ten cars, a black model X and blue model 3.

Also earlier in the week I saw 9 truck transports carrying Tesla's to their stores. They're selling them as fast as they can make them.


[IMG]
View post on imgur.com
[/IMG]
Appreciate 0
      07-14-2019, 02:44 PM   #66
5.M0NSTER
Lieutenant Colonel
5.M0NSTER's Avatar
United_States
3354
Rep
1,823
Posts

Drives: 2018 Camaro SS 1LE
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Back in Michigan, GO BLUE!

iTrader: (0)

Hi CompetentAccountant,

I don't think that people who buy M2s and take them to the track are as rare as you think. Look under the "Track/AutoX/Drag Strip" section of this forum, or even at "What did you do with your M2 today" and you'll realize that. Plus like you said, for the track Tesla is not the right tool .

Also the only thing similar to on-power oversteer I've been able to experience in Model S, X, or 3 was slow off throttle oversteer, which is the less engaging kind. Kinda fun, but not as fun as on throttle power slide. Being an experienced track diver I'm sure you know that, since you choose something else to drive on track over you Model 3. Rightfully so might I add.

Tesla's motto is "No Drama". As such is can't even be compared with with an M car or any American Muscle car or any Sports car at all for that matter. Drama is what these cars are all about. Model 3 (and S, and X) are about convincing the general public that electric is here. Driving enthusiasts are not the target market by a large margin. And rightfully so.
__________________
2017 BMW M2 German Spec
6MT, Driver's Package
--> SOLD
2018 Camaro SS 1LE. Because race car!

"Redline a day keeps the mechanics away"

Last edited by 5.M0NSTER; 07-15-2019 at 09:42 AM..
Appreciate 1
Robin_NL8679.50
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:45 AM.




m2
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST