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      05-29-2019, 05:31 PM   #1
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M-School winner was the M2 Competition

Hi all, I just attended the M school in Thermal, CA, and the M2 was without a doubt the most fun car I drove. I hope they keep making these, I would gladly take one when my 330i's lease is up (if I can afford it)

Last edited by chickennuggets; 05-29-2019 at 09:02 PM.. Reason: incorrect car designation
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      05-29-2019, 06:12 PM   #2
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      05-29-2019, 06:12 PM   #3
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Nice, heading there with wifey in July. Can't wait. Where did you stay, any tips on food or fun stuff nearby?
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      05-29-2019, 06:22 PM   #4
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They had a CS?
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      05-29-2019, 06:42 PM   #5
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They had a CS?
He had to be mistaken. I am sure it was an M2C.
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      05-29-2019, 07:38 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjtoudouze View Post
They had a CS?
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Originally Posted by DanG View Post
He had to be mistaken. I am sure it was an M2C.
I was mistaken. Competition coupe. Drove M4 and M5 (M5 was a real snooze fest imo) and I just wanted to get back in the M2. The timed lapes were on the M4 and I couldn't help but wonder how much better the time would have been in a smaller car. Truly fell in love with it.

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Nice, heading there with wifey in July. Can't wait. Where did you stay, any tips on food or fun stuff nearby?
I stayed at a Holiday Inn in Indio. I've been to the area couple times for Coachella when I was younger. If you can, the JW Marriott in Palm Desert is a truly beautiful hotel in the middle of the golf course. I had a few drinks there last night, but super expensive. Even though I could have stayed there I didn't see much reason to fork out the extra money this time, since I only came to the hotel to sleep.

Food, I'm not so good with, I'm a weird eater. But there's a lot of good food in Palm Desert/Palm Springs. A really good Italian place, I'll see if I can find the name.

They also serve lunch at the event, it was ok. July is going to be super hot, stay hydrated and wear something light.
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      05-29-2019, 07:47 PM   #7
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Food, I'm not so good with, I'm a weird eater.
With a name like chickennuggets, I have to wonder... You don't only eat chicken nuggets, do you?
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      05-29-2019, 07:59 PM   #8
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With a name like chickennuggets, I have to wonder... You don't only eat chicken nuggets, do you?
No, I'm actually a vegetarian I just really like the way chicken nuggets sounds, I don't know why.

I still eat junk food and drink though, so don't think I'm pulling a holier than tho
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      05-29-2019, 09:25 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Anthony1s View Post
With a name like chickennuggets, I have to wonder... You don't only eat chicken nuggets, do you?
No, I'm actually a vegetarian I just really like the way chicken nuggets sounds, I don't know why.

I still eat junk food and drink though, so don't think I'm pulling a holier than tho
Are you a comedian as well.

Now that's funny.
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      05-30-2019, 12:07 AM   #10
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I was out there in late March and I don't think they had the M2C. Wonder when they got them?
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      05-30-2019, 12:10 AM   #11
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I did the 1 day M school in January. I liked it somewhat less than I expected to, but that probably has more to do with me than with the course.

If you are interested in tracking cars, there is probably something or some things of value there; for regular, public road driving, much less so. The M2C had not come out yet, or at least they didn't have any, so we drove the M2 LCI, the M3, and the M4. I'm surprised to hear that they have M5s now; we didn't have any exposure to those, and the M4 is just basically an M3 with 2 doors, essentially the same vehicle. Personally speaking, I was surprised at how similar all 3 of the vehicles that we drove were.

One thing that I wish they had done was to provide some written materials and preferably an online video before the class, that you could study and get into your head about what it is that you are supposed to be doing in the various exercises. I think that the younger you are and the less set in your ways and the less ingrained are your driving habits, the better you will do in this course. A lot of what they are trying to get you to do in the exercises is very much at odds with the sort of defensive and safe driving that most of us beyond age 30 or 40 have learned to do as a matter of course. Overcoming those well-learned instincts turned out to be very difficult for me; I was not a good student. With some introductory materials before hand, I think that I could have gone over them a number of times and gotten to a space where I felt more comfortable letting go and doing what the instructors were telling us to do. As it was, everything went by as sort of a blur, brief discussion of what the driver was supposed to do and then you were just supposed to do it, but the time allotted to each exercise wasn't great so it was easy to get caught up basically fighting your own learned reflexes, and before you knew it the exercise was over and you/I had not succeeded in doing what the instructors were asking you to do.

This is just my take and I'm sure that many or most will disagree.

As to lodging, I would consider Rancho Mirage. It's a little over half an hour from Thermal, has a lot of lodging choices and lots of restaurants. I have a friend who lives there which is why I chose to stay there; we had dinner the evening after the course.

Enjoy your event; good luck!
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      05-30-2019, 01:12 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by champignon View Post
I did the 1 day M school in January. I liked it somewhat less than I expected to, but that probably has more to do with me than with the course.

If you are interested in tracking cars, there is probably something or some things of value there; for regular, public road driving, much less so. The M2C had not come out yet, or at least they didn't have any, so we drove the M2 LCI, the M3, and the M4. I'm surprised to hear that they have M5s now; we didn't have any exposure to those, and the M4 is just basically an M3 with 2 doors, essentially the same vehicle. Personally speaking, I was surprised at how similar all 3 of the vehicles that we drove were.

One thing that I wish they had done was to provide some written materials and preferably an online video before the class, that you could study and get into your head about what it is that you are supposed to be doing in the various exercises. I think that the younger you are and the less set in your ways and the less ingrained are your driving habits, the better you will do in this course. A lot of what they are trying to get you to do in the exercises is very much at odds with the sort of defensive and safe driving that most of us beyond age 30 or 40 have learned to do as a matter of course. Overcoming those well-learned instincts turned out to be very difficult for me; I was not a good student. With some introductory materials before hand, I think that I could have gone over them a number of times and gotten to a space where I felt more comfortable letting go and doing what the instructors were telling us to do. As it was, everything went by as sort of a blur, brief discussion of what the driver was supposed to do and then you were just supposed to do it, but the time allotted to each exercise wasn't great so it was easy to get caught up basically fighting your own learned reflexes, and before you knew it the exercise was over and you/I had not succeeded in doing what the instructors were asking you to do.

This is just my take and I'm sure that many or most will disagree.

As to lodging, I would consider Rancho Mirage. It's a little over half an hour from Thermal, has a lot of lodging choices and lots of restaurants. I have a friend who lives there which is why I chose to stay there; we had dinner the evening after the course.

Enjoy your event; good luck!
I actually liked it less than I expected too, however I am interested in tracking eventually.

You're right, it's basically tearing down all you know about vision on the road for street driving. That was my biggest take away was always keep your vision way ahead of you, for me that would be let's say three cones.

I didn't like the ride alongs before every exercise. I get why they did this, but I felt it wasted time, got tedious and tiresome when your body isn't used to that kind of driving. Hell I got worn out from driving myself. I opted out of the end of the day ride a long hot lap, my head was killing me.

I would have preferred about triple the time out on the long autocross track, and would have skipped the skid pad/rat race all together, though I realize learning correct/pause/recover is important for track driving, I kept messing up, and messing up in front of everyone wasn't making me better.

But being taught the lines and vision was huge. Once I got a hang of where to put the car on the autocross I got comfortable fast, and was trying my damndest to get a fast time on the timed course (lost 3rd place by a tenth of a second)

I think more learning materials before hand would be great too. I also don't know where to go from here in regards to learning track driving. I can't just keep going ot these classes.

I found the M2 and M4 drove similarly but I preferred the size and feel of the M2 by a wide margin. I just didn't like the M5, the difference between DCT and ZF is huge, even if the ZF is a good transmission.

I'm starting to realize I like smaller cars. I test drove the new 330i and hated it, feels like a 5er now, which is why I love the M2, it's compact, great power, fun to drive, and reasonably priced.

Here's hoping I can snag one, one day.
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      06-02-2019, 09:22 PM   #13
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On the M-School doing the 1 day is not the way to go if your interested in track driving. 2 Day is much better, the second day is spent doing high speed track driving on the South Palm where you really start to learn how to put laps together. I did the 2 day and Advanced M School, after hearing what the 1 day covered I was happy I went with the 2 day. For those interested in lots of high speed track work the Advanced M School is pretty solid, not cheap but there is nothing cheap about driving on a track. On a cost per hour basis these schools are a pretty solid value versus the cost to track your own car.
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      06-02-2019, 09:31 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chickennuggets View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by champignon View Post
I did the 1 day M school in January. I liked it somewhat less than I expected to, but that probably has more to do with me than with the course.

If you are interested in tracking cars, there is probably something or some things of value there; for regular, public road driving, much less so. The M2C had not come out yet, or at least they didn't have any, so we drove the M2 LCI, the M3, and the M4. I'm surprised to hear that they have M5s now; we didn't have any exposure to those, and the M4 is just basically an M3 with 2 doors, essentially the same vehicle. Personally speaking, I was surprised at how similar all 3 of the vehicles that we drove were.

One thing that I wish they had done was to provide some written materials and preferably an online video before the class, that you could study and get into your head about what it is that you are supposed to be doing in the various exercises. I think that the younger you are and the less set in your ways and the less ingrained are your driving habits, the better you will do in this course. A lot of what they are trying to get you to do in the exercises is very much at odds with the sort of defensive and safe driving that most of us beyond age 30 or 40 have learned to do as a matter of course. Overcoming those well-learned instincts turned out to be very difficult for me; I was not a good student. With some introductory materials before hand, I think that I could have gone over them a number of times and gotten to a space where I felt more comfortable letting go and doing what the instructors were telling us to do. As it was, everything went by as sort of a blur, brief discussion of what the driver was supposed to do and then you were just supposed to do it, but the time allotted to each exercise wasn't great so it was easy to get caught up basically fighting your own learned reflexes, and before you knew it the exercise was over and you/I had not succeeded in doing what the instructors were asking you to do.

This is just my take and I'm sure that many or most will disagree.

As to lodging, I would consider Rancho Mirage. It's a little over half an hour from Thermal, has a lot of lodging choices and lots of restaurants. I have a friend who lives there which is why I chose to stay there; we had dinner the evening after the course.

Enjoy your event; good luck!
I actually liked it less than I expected too, however I am interested in tracking eventually.

You're right, it's basically tearing down all you know about vision on the road for street driving. That was my biggest take away was always keep your vision way ahead of you, for me that would be let's say three cones.

I didn't like the ride alongs before every exercise. I get why they did this, but I felt it wasted time, got tedious and tiresome when your body isn't used to that kind of driving. Hell I got worn out from driving myself. I opted out of the end of the day ride a long hot lap, my head was killing me.

I would have preferred about triple the time out on the long autocross track, and would have skipped the skid pad/rat race all together, though I realize learning correct/pause/recover is important for track driving, I kept messing up, and messing up in front of everyone wasn't making me better.

But being taught the lines and vision was huge. Once I got a hang of where to put the car on the autocross I got comfortable fast, and was trying my damndest to get a fast time on the timed course (lost 3rd place by a tenth of a second)

I think more learning materials before hand would be great too. I also don't know where to go from here in regards to learning track driving. I can't just keep going ot these classes.

I found the M2 and M4 drove similarly but I preferred the size and feel of the M2 by a wide margin. I just didn't like the M5, the difference between DCT and ZF is huge, even if the ZF is a good transmission.

I'm starting to realize I like smaller cars. I test drove the new 330i and hated it, feels like a 5er now, which is why I love the M2, it's compact, great power, fun to drive, and reasonably priced.

Here's hoping I can snag one, one day.
I'll be doing this soon. Anything I should know ahead of time? Anything I should study?
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      06-03-2019, 07:53 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akkando View Post
I'll be doing this soon. Anything I should know ahead of time? Anything I should study?
They do a pretty good job explaining what you need to do on the day, but things I found I wish I knew before hand:

*get a good idea of a racing line. They put cones on the handling course for you, yellow for the apex, blue for the turn in, and double red for hard braking.

*look up correct, pause, recover steering. It will help you on the skid pad and if you mess up on the autocross.

*Keep your vision up. Unlike daily road driving you need to keep your eyes way past ahead of what's in front of you. Let's take those cones I talked about, I'd say be looking three cones a head at all times. If you're looking ahead, you'll be driving where the car needs to be.

*They do a ride along for nearly every exercise. While watching a pro brake and accelerate is incredible info, the ride alongs just made me feel sick, and I got better info from asking questions, and when you would drive out on the course slow and follow the instructor while they told you what to do over the radio. If you don't get car sick, ignore this. I was able to do it half the day before it got too tiring.

*Slam the brakes like you're trying to come to a standstill. Especially at red cones, but also some corners like the 'patience' corner, slamming hard on the brakes, you can turn into the apex while still on them. It's better to brake hard and then accelerate out of a turn then to half ass the braking and be wobbly inside the turn.

*Pit if you need to. Whether it's to take a brake or to get some coaching, feel free to drop out safely. For the long autocross I wasn't steering correctly into a corner, but I wasn't getting the coaching advice to correct, so I pitted and asked the instructor. Safer than trying to use the radio while driving that fast.

Let me know if there's anything else, that was just off the top of my head
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      06-03-2019, 07:54 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pruettfan View Post
On the M-School doing the 1 day is not the way to go if your interested in track driving. 2 Day is much better, the second day is spent doing high speed track driving on the South Palm where you really start to learn how to put laps together. I did the 2 day and Advanced M School, after hearing what the 1 day covered I was happy I went with the 2 day. For those interested in lots of high speed track work the Advanced M School is pretty solid, not cheap but there is nothing cheap about driving on a track. On a cost per hour basis these schools are a pretty solid value versus the cost to track your own car.
Good to know, I'll look into it for next year
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      06-03-2019, 11:58 PM   #17
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      06-04-2019, 01:55 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chickennuggets View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by akkando View Post
I'll be doing this soon. Anything I should know ahead of time? Anything I should study?
They do a pretty good job explaining what you need to do on the day, but things I found I wish I knew before hand:

*get a good idea of a racing line. They put cones on the handling course for you, yellow for the apex, blue for the turn in, and double red for hard braking.

*look up correct, pause, recover steering. It will help you on the skid pad and if you mess up on the autocross.

*Keep your vision up. Unlike daily road driving you need to keep your eyes way past ahead of what's in front of you. Let's take those cones I talked about, I'd say be looking three cones a head at all times. If you're looking ahead, you'll be driving where the car needs to be.

*They do a ride along for nearly every exercise. While watching a pro brake and accelerate is incredible info, the ride alongs just made me feel sick, and I got better info from asking questions, and when you would drive out on the course slow and follow the instructor while they told you what to do over the radio. If you don't get car sick, ignore this. I was able to do it half the day before it got too tiring.

*Slam the brakes like you're trying to come to a standstill. Especially at red cones, but also some corners like the 'patience' corner, slamming hard on the brakes, you can turn into the apex while still on them. It's better to brake hard and then accelerate out of a turn then to half ass the braking and be wobbly inside the turn.

*Pit if you need to. Whether it's to take a brake or to get some coaching, feel free to drop out safely. For the long autocross I wasn't steering correctly into a corner, but I wasn't getting the coaching advice to correct, so I pitted and asked the instructor. Safer than trying to use the radio while driving that fast.

Let me know if there's anything else, that was just off the top of my head
I tend to get car sick in some situations so hopefully if I take some dramamine I'll be okay. Did you take any motion sick meds for the event?
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      06-04-2019, 02:06 PM   #19
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Hey guys, glad to hear that you enjoyed the schools. I've done the one day events and the advanced M school (2 day) and they are all fun but holy moly it gets expensive.

If you really want to learn (and kudos if you do) then I suggest that you find your local or closest BMW CCA HPDE (High Performance Driving Event, AKA driving school) which are held on real race courses. You drive your car on the track, with plenty of classroom instruction and an in-car instructor sitting right next to you, telling/suggesting what to do.

Natch the level of instruction varies depending on who you get, but everyone I've ever had has been good (ranging from good to excellent). And you learn, learn, learn a lot. You also have a heck of a lot of fun. And any contemporary non-SUV BMW can do these things, it doesn't need to be an M car. In fact... you will learn more driving your wife's 320i than you would in your M2, especially in the beginning.
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      06-05-2019, 12:14 AM   #20
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I went to Thermal about a year ago before the Competition was released and the M2 wasn't really a favorite with either students or instructors. I heard a few comments from the instructors about how the engines tended to overheat and the brake fade was an issue when they got hot. I liked the M3 the most. I did not get to drive the M5 though. I suspected that the Competition would address these two things and it sounds like it has.
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      06-05-2019, 03:32 PM   #21
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Quote:
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I tend to get car sick in some situations so hopefully if I take some dramamine I'll be okay. Did you take any motion sick meds for the event?
No, I didn't want to be tired and also I don't typically get car sick, and in this instance it was more of a headache then feeling queasy. I just thought it would be good to know, not everyone wants to be driven around like that. As long as I'm driving myself I can go fast, twisty, etc.

It's optional, feel free to not take the ride if you aren't feeling it. After lunch they had a ride along for the long autocross and one of the instructors even said feel free to sit out (you can sit any or all of them if you want).

If I went again I'd sit out all ride alongs even though I don't typically get car sick, it's not a typical situation.
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      06-05-2019, 04:00 PM   #22
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I tend to get car sick in some situations so hopefully if I take some dramamine I'll be okay. Did you take any motion sick meds for the event?
A person in the Air Force once told me - the key to not getting motion sick is to push down as if you are having a bowel movement. That closes up things and prevents you from getting car sick.

Seems to be working for me

and I have yet to have an accident - the other type if you know what I mean!
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