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      06-28-2020, 12:35 AM   #1
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First track day / muffler paint flaking

Hi all -

Took the M2C for its first track outing at Dominion Raceway. What a blast. It's my 3rd time on a track (including M school) and was fortunate that my CA who is also an instructor joined me for a morning of instruction.

Was already in love with the car but this really took it to the next level. Really trusted the car and got a lot more confidence towards end of the day. Also really appreciated the engine note in the higher RPMs - I stayed in comfort the whole day + windows down while racing so I could really hear it.

One FYI - my black high temp muffler paint burned off a bit by end of day. No biggie and not surprising given how hot the car was running. Photo attached.

Just for fun, here's a video from the cockpit of one my later runs. Big improvement from the start of the day.



Stay safe all.

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      06-28-2020, 07:05 AM   #2
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Nice!

May I ask what type paint you used on the muffler? I used VHT high temp ~ 1500 degrees iircc...
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      06-28-2020, 07:54 AM   #3
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Make sure you scuff the muffler really well with a green Scotchbrite pad before you paint it, and as stated above, use high-temp exhaust paint. Should be fine with those two things. BMW should have done it for you...
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      06-28-2020, 08:06 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VisualEcho View Post
Make sure you scuff the muffler really well with a green Scotchbrite pad before you paint it, and as stated above, use high-temp exhaust paint. Should be fine with those two things. BMW should have done it for you...
Almost certainly the risk of flaking (and possible subsequent claims) is the reason why BMW leaves the muffler unpainted.
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      06-28-2020, 08:30 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Almost certainly the risk of flaking (and possible subsequent claims) is the reason why BMW leaves the muffler unpainted.
Yes, I can only imagine the threads that would reference BMW using inferior paint. Why in the world would they stupidly paint the muffler. Zebra muffler sufferers would have a field day.

Scuff first, maybe wipe with phosphoric acid to etch, neutralize, use a high temp paint. Anyone try a thinned down rhino lining?
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      06-28-2020, 08:43 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by medphysdave View Post
Yes, I can only imagine the threads that would reference BMW using inferior paint. Why in the world would they stupidly paint the muffler. Zebra muffler sufferers would have a field day.
Scuff first, maybe wipe with phosphoric acid to etch, neutralize, use a high temp paint. Anyone try a thinned down rhino lining?
See the dedicated thread here ("Anyone painted/obscured the M2C exhaust muffler ?")



Quote:
Originally Posted by Karlosm2c View Post
This happened after my first track day yesterday with the new AA midpipe and painted muffler. I supplied the garage that did the job with the highest temperature resistant black spray paint (1100 degree centigrade) and it still burnt off
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      06-28-2020, 09:36 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Almost certainly the risk of flaking (and possible subsequent claims) is the reason why BMW leaves the muffler unpainted.
I keep hearing that, and I'm so surprised to hear it from you.

We're talking about German engineering here, and you really don't believe they could make the paint stick?

I respectfully disagree, and would add that I know of an automotive undercoating that doesn't even need to be scuffed to stick forever. But forever is a long time, so that's why I don't recommend it here.
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      06-28-2020, 10:21 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VisualEcho View Post
I keep hearing that, and I'm so surprised to hear it from you.
We're talking about German engineering here, and you really don't believe they could make the paint stick?
I respectfully disagree, and would add that I know of an automotive undercoating that doesn't even need to be scuffed to stick forever. But forever is a long time, so that's why I don't recommend it here.
I once heard through the grapevine FWIW (unverified) that quality requirements require even merely the symbol/icon on a button inside the interior must last unscathed for at least 10 years. If a supplier cannot guarantee that, it won't make it to production.

So let's just say that it wouldn't be a surprise. Painting with heat resistant paint is possible and dark paint partially obscures its size, but nevertheless BMW refrains from doing it (unlike for example exhaust tips or configurator renders).
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      06-28-2020, 10:51 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VisualEcho View Post
I keep hearing that, and I'm so surprised to hear it from you.

We're talking about German engineering here, and you really don't believe they could make the paint stick?

I respectfully disagree, and would add that I know of an automotive undercoating that doesn't even need to be scuffed to stick forever. But forever is a long time, so that's why I don't recommend it here.

I found a company in the Netherlands specialised in that kind of things. They made me a quotation of 968 €. 1 year guaranty for temperatures until 1050 centigrade.
It isn't worth it for me at that price e.
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      06-28-2020, 10:57 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
I once heard through the grapevine FWIW (unverified) that quality requirements require even merely the symbol/icon on a button inside the interior must last unscathed for at least 10 years. If a supplier cannot guarantee that, it won't make it to production.

So let's just say that it wouldn't be a surprise. Painting with heat resistant paint is possible and dark paint partially obscures its size, but nevertheless BMW refrains from doing it (unlike for example exhaust tips or configurator renders).
Guess they missed the boat on the rear tail-light malfunction
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      06-28-2020, 11:20 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VisualEcho View Post
Guess they missed the boat on the rear tail-light malfunction
Guess their magical German engineering you claimed that can solved everything, despite real world technical limitations of problems, isn't so magical.
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      06-28-2020, 12:26 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devo View Post
Nice!

May I ask what type paint you used on the muffler? I used VHT high temp ~ 1500 degrees iircc...
think the shop used exactly what you referenced but not positive.
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      06-28-2020, 12:52 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by VisualEcho View Post
I keep hearing that, and I'm so surprised to hear it from you.
We're talking about German engineering here, and you really don't believe they could make the paint stick?
I respectfully disagree, and would add that I know of an automotive undercoating that doesn't even need to be scuffed to stick forever. But forever is a long time, so that's why I don't recommend it here.
I once heard through the grapevine FWIW (unverified) that quality requirements require even merely the symbol/icon on a button inside the interior must last unscathed for at least 10 years. If a supplier cannot guarantee that, it won't make it to production.

So let's just say that it wouldn't be a surprise. Painting with heat resistant paint is possible and dark paint partially obscures its size, but nevertheless BMW refrains from doing it (unlike for example exhaust tips or configurator renders).
You're right about this but owners just don't want accept it.. Just look at the color fading on Blue Brake, after a few hot laps.. That speaks for itself..

The writing is on the wall; they didn't paint the exhaust black to conceal it because they knew they would possible be bombarded with warranty claims..

There is no way in hell they missed this glowing eyesore below, in pre-production and just decided to to leave it, as is, just for the hell of it.
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      06-28-2020, 01:12 PM   #14
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Wonder if it's possible to blue it, like they do with guns. I'm not too familiar with the process. I think it's a chemical you just wipe onto the metal and it creates a black oxide layer. Would have to research to see if it can be done to the type of metal the m2c exhaust is made from.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluing_(steel)

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      06-28-2020, 01:29 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pol View Post
I found a company in the Netherlands specialised in that kind of things. They made me a quotation of 968 €. 1 year guaranty for temperatures until 1050 centigrade.
It isn't worth it for me at that price e.
A mountain friend of mine took precautions. Unfortunately, looking good didn't last long. Looked like a mess. He resolved the flaking issue by replacing the exhaust with a smaller aftermarket one.
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      06-28-2020, 01:37 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony1s View Post
Guess their magical German engineering you claimed that can solved everything, despite real world technical limitations of problems, isn't so magical.
Dude, be honest. If they can engineer a car like the M2, they can engineer a way to make black paint stick to the back of a muffler. And yes, it may be cost prohibitive for them, but it's not as if it hasn't been done before.
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      06-28-2020, 01:44 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VisualEcho View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony1s View Post
Guess their magical German engineering you claimed that can solved everything, despite real world technical limitations of problems, isn't so magical.
Dude, be honest. If they can engineer a car like the M2, they can engineer a way to make black paint stick to the back of a muffler. And yes, it may be cost prohibitive for them, but it's not as if it hasn't been done before.

Mercedes did just that and painted their exhaust and tips black and even those started fading, forcing them to replace entire exhaust systems, under warranty..

I say it's smart money BMW left it uncoated, as ghastly as it looks..


Google the subject, every auto manufacture that painted their exhaust, eventually had to deal with color fading..
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      06-28-2020, 02:30 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VisualEcho View Post
If they can engineer a car like the M2, they can engineer a way to make black paint stick to the back of a muffler. And yes, it may be cost prohibitive for them, but it's not as if it hasn't been done before.
For example have a look here about recent BMW paint chipping inside exhaust tips (with some disgruntled reactions and reported warranty claims): here and here.

Imagine for a moment that you're in charge at BMW, what would you recommend about exhaust painting for the future ?









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      06-28-2020, 02:31 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
Mercedes did just that and painted their exhaust and tips black and even those started fading, forcing them to replace entire exhaust systems, under warranty..

I say it's smart money BMW left it uncoated, as ghastly as it looks..


Google the subject, every auto manufacture that painted their exhaust, eventually had to deal with color fading..
I get it, no way to cost-effectively make it perfect from the factory. But I've done it myself with great success, and really inexpensively.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
For example have a look here about recent BMW paint chipping inside exhaust tips (with some disgruntled reactions and reported warranty claims): Imagine for a moment that you're in charge at BMW, what would you recommend about exhaust painting for the future?
No, I'd tell them to richen the fuel mix
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      06-28-2020, 09:07 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
For example have a look here about recent BMW paint chipping inside exhaust tips (with some disgruntled reactions and reported warranty claims): here and here.
Imagine for a moment that you're in charge at BMW, what would you recommend about exhaust painting for the future ?
Thanks for this info,

I'm going to leave my ball bag exhaust till i can afford an aftermarket one.

No point painting it and having it slowly peel off, I reckon that would look worse (paint flaking off) than just a shiny ball bag.
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      06-29-2020, 04:47 AM   #21
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I remember back in the 90s most JDM had black exhaust muffler...the blackness faded away over time but the paint did not flaked off.

OEM DC5 Integra Type R mufflers shown here
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      06-29-2020, 05:45 AM   #22
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If there is a fire from a painted exhaust, the BMW warranty will not be valid. In Europe, so. Maybe in the USA differently? The exhaust manufacturer and BMW are not responsible for the changes you make.

In Europe, there are a lot of insurance cases of pipe and plastic fire due to improper tuning. Any change that you make to the car without inspection or special permission, removes all warranties from the manufacturer.
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