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      05-20-2020, 05:57 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
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Originally Posted by F87source View Post
I


You are incorrect about the charge pipe being changed, the part number in use for the chargepipe on all F series N55's (except 5 series and up) is exactly the same since 2010 when the first F30 was launched https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/par...;q=13717604033

So that post was likely misleading as the part has yet to be superseded and has never been looked at. This could have been done to avoid a massive recall, I wouldn't be surprised if this was the case.
Here's a pic of the new charge pipe collar design. While parts vendors aren't showing a new part # yet (I've confirmed as well), the CP design has most definitely been changed and improved. Almost all CP failures on N55s are at the collar.

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...066&page=5

[img]https://i.ibb.co/7p0RCLX/Screen-Shot...1-31-55-PM.png[/img]
So they added an extra lip to reinforced the flange, on the TB. Problem solved, without using some heat-soaked garbage.

This is true story; because of all the fear-mongering, on this forum, I've been driving like an asshole, for the last few months, trying to get my stock chargepipe to blow out, before my factory warranty expired but all that happened is I ran out of gas.. :

So there is probably a better chance of the Bubonic plague returning, than my chargepipe exploding but good to know that, hopefully, one sweet day, if it ever goes, there is an improved OEM design available.
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      05-20-2020, 02:10 PM   #90
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My charge pipe blew today

Funny you say that you don't think the charge pipe will fail... Mine literally blew today. My MY17 M2 is fully stock and has never been tracked. I do drive it hard, probably similar to most other M2 enthusiasts.

Unfortunately, I'm just out of warranty (Jan 2020 expiration), so I'll likely have to go aftermarket which will hopefully fix the issue and give me some peace of mind.
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      05-20-2020, 02:26 PM   #91
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Funny you say that you don't think the charge pipe will fail... Mine literally blew today. My MY17 M2 is fully stock and has never been tracked. I do drive it hard, probably similar to most other M2 enthusiasts.

Unfortunately, I'm just out of warranty (Jan 2020 expiration), so I'll likely have to go aftermarket which will hopefully fix the issue and give me some peace of mind.
I was being facetious, I know there is a possibility, that even with age, plastic components will eventually fail. But I've been trying to get mines to explode, so I could get a loaner car, to go on a road trip and have a new, revised piece installed but it just won't go.. :

However, the fact that BMW improved the original design, to eliminate its inherent weakness, make it no-brainer for an OEM replacement.
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      05-20-2020, 04:18 PM   #92
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So they added an extra lip to reinforced the flange, on the TB. Problem solved, without using some heat-soaked garbage.

This is true story; because of all the fear-mongering, on this forum, I've been driving like an asshole, for the last few months, trying to get my stock chargepipe to blow out, before my factory warranty expired but all that happened is I ran out of gas.. :

So there is probably a better chance of the Bubonic plague returning, than my chargepipe exploding but good to know that, hopefully, one sweet day, if it ever goes, there is an improved OEM design available.
It's only fear mongering if you refuse to analyze data in a non biased means. For me it is comparing the stock part to a replacement and seeing if there are benefits. For example the factory turbo outlet is a reinforced rubber tube that is insanely strong and has flexibility which is great, no need to change that out unless you want more flow. For the chargepipe there has been alot of reports of failure and there still is on late model n55's before production ended, so clearly there is an issue.


The whole heat soaked issue literally doesn't have any backing, and yet you keep bringing it up. I am currently data logging my car after it warms up to temperature and letting it idle for a couple of minutes to monitor heat soak. I am also recording ambient temperatures and humidity so I can perform statistical analysis to see if there is a significant difference in heat soak when I upgrade to a metal charge pipe. This might take awhile to accomplish since I am starting with the oem chargepipe in the spring and will have the aftermarket chargepipe in the summer, so I have to wait until the fall to get the same temperatures again (from 15ºC - 30ºC to account for all ambient temperatures).


If you are waiting for bmw to make a fix there is a high chance it will never happen unless someone tries to take a class action law suit or a recall occurs. Because the n55 production cycle is done, so no more development will be happening on it from bmw.


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I was being facetious, I know there is a possibility, that even with age, plastic components will eventually fail. But I've been trying to get mines to explode, so I could get a loaner car, to go on a road trip and have a new, revised piece installed but it just won't go.. :

However, the fact that BMW improved the original design, to eliminate its inherent weakness, make it no-brainer for an OEM replacement.

The problem is that it isn't a fix and the issue has not been eliminated, people still see failures even on end of production N55's which should have this "upgraded" chargepipe from bmw.



I'm pretty much done replying, if you want to keep a factory chargepipe that will always have an inherent weakness an capable of failing at anytime suit yourself.

But if anyone reading this is out of warranty and has a failed chargepipe and wants to buy another oem one as a replacement thinking it is an upgrade, imo don't do it or you risk having another chargepipe failure down the line which will cost you money buying a more expensive oem part that has not been proven (unlike aluminium chargepipes) and having to reinstall a new pipe again. And for those people paranoid of heat soak, get the turnermotorsports hybrid pipe which uses alot more reinforced silicone piping.
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      05-20-2020, 06:07 PM   #93
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It really bothers me how this thread turned in to an argument for a couple of pages...

I still don’t get how keeping the stock charge pipe is an option. My personal experience is it popped for no reason in traffic while it was on stock boost with stock intercooler. It was only just doing 2,000-2,500rpm leaving me stranded on a Friday night trying to get home after a long week at work.

And if it failed while I’m on a full days country run into the middle of nowhere? Or if it failed at a track day not only putting me at risk but wasting a track day at the same time...

Eventually, they are all going to break, if you're doing the intercooler anyway, you might as well do the charge pipe for peace of mind. It’s such a no brainer, I don’t get the point of arguing that not changing it or replacing it with another OEM unless the pipe goes just before you’re going to sell the car anyway in which case just pick up a cheap OEM and throw that in.

FYI if anyone wants an almost near new ORM charge pipe and you live in Australia, give me a shout. It was on my car for less than 2 weeks before I had the time to get the intercooler and VRSF charge pipe installed at the same time.
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      05-20-2020, 06:34 PM   #94
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Stubborn people gonna keep being stubborn. Even went presented with empirical evidence and basic understanding of physics some people just won't sway in their beliefs or even admit perhaps their hypothesis is wrong. Just gotta move on.
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      05-20-2020, 06:41 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wattens View Post
It really bothers me how this thread turned in to an argument for a couple of pages...

I still don’t get how keeping the stock charge pipe is an option. My personal experience is it popped for no reason in traffic while it was on stock boost with stock intercooler. It was only just doing 2,000-2,500rpm leaving me stranded on a Friday night trying to get home after a long week at work.

And if it failed while I’m on a full days country run into the middle of nowhere? Or if it failed at a track day not only putting me at risk but wasting a track day at the same time...

Eventually, they are all going to break, if you're doing the intercooler anyway, you might as well do the charge pipe for peace of mind. It’s such a no brainer, I don’t get the point of arguing that not changing it or replacing it with another OEM unless the pipe goes just before you’re going to sell the car anyway in which case just pick up a cheap OEM and throw that in.

FYI if anyone wants an almost near new ORM charge pipe and you live in Australia, give me a shout. It was on my car for less than 2 weeks before I had the time to get the intercooler and VRSF charge pipe installed at the same time.
Yup that would suck if you got stranded in the middle of nowhere on a really hot or cold day. It would also suck if you took your car to the track or dyno and had the pipe fail, that would be expensive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nioh_lbbm2 View Post
Stubborn people gonna keep being stubborn. Even went presented with empirical evidence and basic understanding of physics some people just won't sway in their beliefs or even admit perhaps their hypothesis is wrong. Just gotta move on.
Unfortunate but true.
I'm leaving this thread now unless something important or relevant pops up.
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      05-20-2020, 08:43 PM   #96
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Stubborn people gonna keep being stubborn. Even went presented with empirical evidence and basic understanding of physics some people just won't sway in their beliefs or even admit perhaps their hypothesis is wrong. Just gotta move on.
I guess I play the stubborn one here, I'll put it to you like this; I'm aware the charge pipe sometimes cracks, from the TB but in my experience, it hasn't in 4 years, when and if it does, the dealer will replace it for free and provide me loaner car.

I rather the OEM pipe explode 10 times over, than put some aftermarket garbage on my car, for some reasons outlined.

Maybe I'm a glutton for punishment but in my experience, the stock pipe is just fine and I sleep well at night..

I'm not being stubborn, it's a calculated risk and so far I'm right..
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      05-20-2020, 08:53 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by nioh_lbbm2 View Post
Stubborn people gonna keep being stubborn. Even went presented with empirical evidence and basic understanding of physics some people just won't sway in their beliefs or even admit perhaps their hypothesis is wrong. Just gotta move on.
I guess I play the stubborn one here, I'll put it to you like this; I'm aware the charge pipe sometimes cracks, from the TB but in my experience, it hasn't in 4 years, when and if it does, the dealer will replace it for free and provide me loaner car.

I rather the OEM pipe explode 10 times over, than put some aftermarket garbage on my car, for some reasons outlined.

Maybe I'm a glutton for punishment but in my experience, the stock pipe is just fine and I sleep well at night..

I'm not being stubborn, it's a calculated risk and so far I'm right..
Your stubbornness is stemming from the fact that you still insist on this supposed heat soak not that you are personally still running the stock CP.

You have no concrete proof of this fact and even made fallacious arguments (soda can example).

You're fine to run the stock CP. "IF" it bursts then you can get a replacement easily under warranty and that's all and fine but don't spread information as fact when you don't know what you're talking about ("heat soak"). We data log our cars. There is no heat soak.

I'm out of this thread. Done with circular conversations
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      05-20-2020, 09:01 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
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Originally Posted by nioh_lbbm2 View Post
Stubborn people gonna keep being stubborn. Even went presented with empirical evidence and basic understanding of physics some people just won't sway in their beliefs or even admit perhaps their hypothesis is wrong. Just gotta move on.
I guess I play the stubborn one here, I'll put it to you like this; I'm aware the charge pipe sometimes cracks, from the TB but in my experience, it hasn't in 4 years, when and if it does, the dealer will replace it for free and provide me loaner car.

I rather the OEM pipe explode 10 times over, than put some aftermarket garbage on my car, for some reasons outlined.

Maybe I'm a glutton for punishment but in my experience, the stock pipe is just fine and I sleep well at night..

I'm not being stubborn, it's a calculated risk and so far I'm right..
Your stubbornness is stemming from the fact that you still insist on this supposed heat soak not that you are personally still running the stock CP.

You have no concrete proof of this fact and even made fallacious arguments (soda can example).

You're fine to run the stock CP. "IF" it bursts then you can get a replacement easily under warranty and that's all and fine but don't spread information as fact when you don't know what you're talking about ("heat soak"). We data log our cars. There is no heat soak.

I'm out of this thread. Done with circular conversations
Whatever, I rather risk it exploding than install a no-name part on my car.

And yes, I don't need your "empirical evidence", whatever TF that means but basic common sense or anything you would learn on Sesame Street; plastic is a weaker conductor of heat than aluminum.


.
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      05-20-2020, 09:17 PM   #99
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      05-20-2020, 10:48 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
Whatever, I rather risk it exploding than install a no-name part on my car.

And yes, I don't need your "empirical evidence", whatever TF that means but basic common sense or anything you would learn on Sesame Street; plastic is a weaker conductor of heat than aluminum.


.
Again with the no name part comment It's not even a complex part so it doesn't matter who makes it as long as they use proper material (reinforced couplers and T-bolt clamps) and fitment is good it will out perform the factory pipe in every way, and CTS isn't a small company.


I only came back to say this last thing since you literally are spreading a whole bunch of disinformation. YES of course metal is a better conductor than plastic, but as per usual you miss the whole point. It is not as simple as saying oh this one is a better conductor and then ignoring everything else that occurs in the engine bay.

1) Air velocity in the charge pipe: Air is moving so fast it doesn't have a chance to heat up due to the "heat soak"

2) Air is an excellent insulator: So essentially the chargepipe will warm up to ambient temperature in the engine bay if there is zero air flow which can only happen during stop and go.

3) Air flow: when the car is moving huge amounts of air enters the engine bay which is why open filter intakes do not heat soak as proven by dyno results, same thing will occur for the charge pipe. Thus while a car is moving factoring in air speed in the pipe and air going through the engine bay heat soak is a non issue. There is data proving this.

4) Temperature in the charge air tract, during stop and go the intercooler can heat soak so much that the air going through it could even be hotter than the engine bay, so plastic could be insulating this air tract making it worse. The heat soak in this case from the intercooler could be so bad that it doesn't matter what your chargepipe is made of. I had data showing this, I can't find any of my jb4 stuff anymore so I will redo testing of this if time permits, but others have posted logs too.

So in summary, while driving there is too much air flow going into the engine bay, and the air that is moving through the charge pipe is going so fast you experience no heat soak, there are logs proving this. In the worst possible case you are idling and the intercooler will heat soak so bad that the charge air temps are so hot that heat soak of the charge pipe doesn't matter. So in essence heat soaking of a metal chargepipe is a non-issue.

I've given my points, it's your turn to support your claims with evidence that was not discussed prior in this thread and deemed to be incorrect.
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      05-20-2020, 11:00 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F87source View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
Whatever, I rather risk it exploding than install a no-name part on my car.

And yes, I don't need your "empirical evidence", whatever TF that means but basic common sense or anything you would learn on Sesame Street; plastic is a weaker conductor of heat than aluminum.


.
Again with the no name part comment It's not even a complex part so it doesn't matter who makes it as long as they use proper material (reinforced couplers and T-bolt clamps) and fitment is good it will out perform the factory pipe in every way, and CTS isn't a small company.


I only came back to say this last thing since you literally are spreading a whole bunch of disinformation. YES of course metal is a better conductor than plastic, but as per usual you miss the whole point. It is not as simple as saying oh this one is a better conductor and then ignoring everything else that occurs in the engine bay.

1) Air velocity in the charge pipe: Air is moving so fast it doesn't have a chance to heat up due to the "heat soak"

2) Air is an excellent insulator: So essentially the chargepipe will warm up to ambient temperature in the engine bay if there is zero air flow which can only happen during stop and go.

3) Air flow: when the car is moving huge amounts of air enters the engine bay which is why open filter intakes do not heat soak as proven by dyno results, same thing will occur for the charge pipe. Thus while a car is moving factoring in air speed in the pipe and air going through the engine bay heat soak is a non issue. There is data proving this.

4) Temperature in the charge air tract, during stop and go the intercooler can heat soak so much that the air going through it could even be hotter than the engine bay, so plastic could be insulating this air tract making it worse. The heat soak in this case from the intercooler could be so bad that it doesn't matter what your chargepipe is made of. I had data showing this, I can't find any of my jb4 stuff anymore so I will redo testing of this if time permits, but others have posted logs too.

So in summary, while driving there is too much air flow going into the engine bay, and the air that is moving through the charge pipe is going so fast you experience no heat soak, there are logs proving this. In the worst possible case you are idling and the intercooler will heat soak so bad that the charge air temps are so hot that heat soak of the charge pipe doesn't matter. So in essence heat soaking of a metal chargepipe is a non-issue.

I've given my points, it's your turn to support your claims with evidence that was not discussed prior in this thread and deemed to be incorrect.
You win bro, I'll let you have the last word, if you do me a favor; since you love your aluminum charge pipe so much, drive around for like a hour, pop the hood and give it big, tight, beer-hug, with both hands..
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      05-20-2020, 11:06 PM   #102
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I've datalogged higher IATs with my FTP chargepipe in stop and go traffic. No other changes to the car. Once rolling, it's a negligible difference.

I don't think most people know how little air is moving through the CP during most driving situations.

Lots of people have issues with aftermarket CPs leaking at the seals. One of the reasons BMW uses plastic is because it can make for a tighter fit at the IC and TB thus less likely to leak. Make it out of metal and you're talking thousands of a inch between sealing and leaking.

The updated CP design from BMW is significantly improved. I have a hard time seeing it fail in stock to Stage 2 cars.

I'm very happy with the fitment of my FTP CP but I would be even happier if it were plastic and beefier than the stock CP.
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      05-20-2020, 11:11 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
You win bro, I'll let you have the last word, if you do me a favor; since you love your aluminum charge pipe so much, drive around for like a hour, pop the hood and give it big, tight, beer-hug, with both hands..
I've done that alot on my m235i... I give it a shake to make sure the silicone coupler is still tight or if thermal expansion loosened anything. It's not even that hot for me (it's about the same as anything else in that area of the engine bay). You'd know if you owned one and didn't spend your time speculating, I still don't advocate it since you can bump into something hot, a better way to test is with an ir thermometer. You can try the same thing on the factory pipe, grab and shake it a bit, oh wait you'll break the flange.

The only thing that's really hot is the ofh, oil lines, and the coolant expansion line, and of course the turbofold.

Don't forget, metal cools faster too, when you take hot tin foil out of the oven it's safe to touch mins later, same can't be said for plastic. So as soon as the car is moving again that metal charge pipe will cool, unlike the plastic pipe that stays hot.
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      05-20-2020, 11:25 PM   #104
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I've datalogged higher IATs with my FTP chargepipe in stop and go traffic. No other changes to the car. Once rolling, it's a negligible difference.

I don't think most people know how little air is moving through the CP during most driving situations.

Lots of people have issues with aftermarket CPs leaking at the seals. One of the reasons BMW uses plastic is because it can make for a tighter fit at the IC and TB thus less likely to leak. Make it out of metal and you're talking thousands of a inch between sealing and leaking.

The updated CP design from BMW is significantly improved. I have a hard time seeing it fail in stock to Stage 2 cars.

I'm very happy with the fitment of my FTP CP but I would be even happier if it were plastic and beefier than the stock CP.
Most people have leaks at the seals because they replace charge pipes in higher km ranges. What does this mean? The old seals are dried out, worn and require replacing. But these individuals tend not to replace these seals and end up experiencing leaks. Or these individuals buy the cheapest eBay pipe with crap tolerances, this won't happen with a brand name pipe

You do realize plastic can leak just like metal right? It's the oring that stops the air from leaking, hence why they're used on the plastic pipe.

Edit- I forgot to say alot of people forget to take the orings out of the factory parts too, so they don't even know there are supposed to be orings hence another cause for leaks.
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      05-21-2020, 12:30 AM   #105
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I'm going to post this here as well just in case:https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1494417

This individual had a cracked chargepipe that did not blow off of the throttle body, nor trigger a CEL. So essentially you can get a small crack on the stock chargepipe and not even know about it.
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      05-21-2020, 08:16 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
I guess I play the stubborn one here, I'll put it to you like this; I'm aware the charge pipe sometimes cracks, from the TB but in my experience, it hasn't in 4 years, when and if it does, the dealer will replace it for free and provide me loaner car.

I rather the OEM pipe explode 10 times over, than put some aftermarket garbage on my car, for some reasons outlined.

Maybe I'm a glutton for punishment but in my experience, the stock pipe is just fine and I sleep well at night..

I'm not being stubborn, it's a calculated risk and so far I'm right..
I dunno, ten times seems like a lot of pain in the ass rather than just one and done on the aluminum.

Anyway, for what it's worth at a glance my stock CP looked fine.

After the new one was installed the car feels like it pulls harder at WOT but it really shouldn't. So either the old one had a leak, or it's placebo and I been driving the M3 too much. I couldn't say which.
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      05-21-2020, 09:15 PM   #107
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Has anyone tried turners silicone pipes? Can’t find much about them.

https://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-5...-complete-kit/
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      05-21-2020, 09:30 PM   #108
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Has anyone tried turners silicone pipes? Can’t find much about them.

https://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-5...-complete-kit/
Should be fine. Has 2 more clamp spots since the coupler to the IC is a separate piece. Just need to make sure they stay tight.
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      05-22-2020, 04:30 AM   #109
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Originally Posted by akkando View Post
I dunno, ten times seems like a lot of pain in the ass rather than just one and done on the aluminum.

Anyway, for what it's worth at a glance my stock CP looked fine.

After the new one was installed the car feels like it pulls harder at WOT but it really shouldn't. So either the old one had a leak, or it's placebo and I been driving the M3 too much. I couldn't say which.
I will log boost deviations of my current pipe as well to see the difference.
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      05-22-2020, 10:41 AM   #110
Poochie
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Originally Posted by akkando View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
I guess I play the stubborn one here, I'll put it to you like this; I'm aware the charge pipe sometimes cracks, from the TB but in my experience, it hasn't in 4 years, when and if it does, the dealer will replace it for free and provide me loaner car.

I rather the OEM pipe explode 10 times over, than put some aftermarket garbage on my car, for some reasons outlined.

Maybe I'm a glutton for punishment but in my experience, the stock pipe is just fine and I sleep well at night..

I'm not being stubborn, it's a calculated risk and so far I'm right..
I dunno, ten times seems like a lot of pain in the ass rather than just one and done on the aluminum.

Anyway, for what it's worth at a glance my stock CP looked fine.

After the new one was installed the car feels like it pulls harder at WOT but it really shouldn't. So either the old one had a leak, or it's placebo and I been driving the M3 too much. I couldn't say which.
I'm not sure if anyone who had their OEM pipe replaced, ever had a repeated occurrence of failure.

I could be wrong but I never heard of such a case here. And especially now that they revised the flange.

Just like the radiator overflow tank hose that wears out and pops, another known N55 issue, I see this as a typical wear and tear item and not an inherent defect.

Coolant hose exploded https://www.2addicts.com/forums/show....php?t=1553680


And like I said, if you're already pushing heavy boost, above the typical stock load, then please upgrade the plastic pipe but on stock power or maybe a Stage 1, it's recommenced but not required.

I really try to give everyone the most accurate advice I can here and in my experience, the charge pipe is fine, on anything under 400hp.

Had it been a larger issue, there would be a lot more people yapping about it, instead of a few outlier few.

The ramps that I use to lift my car is made out of hard plastic. So if that can withstand 3,500lbs of weight, it shows that plastic properties can be maybe to be as strong as steel.

That's all I really stated, I really wasn't try to kick up dust or play devil advocate.

Maybe it's because mines is a manual and I know the DCT keeps the boost up, durning gear changes..

BTW, strait up envy on your E92 M3! I would love to have another car that revs up to 8,000rpms and has an exhaust that sounds like it's tuned, to sound as precise, as a guitar

It's always been my favorite BMW behind a 1M, it's just I could of never afford one new, at 70k and used there a possible rod bearing issue..
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