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      05-19-2018, 10:19 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by M3_WC View Post
It is f*cking hilarious. There are a few current M2 owners that are locks to show up and talk sh*t in each new thread. The same ones that get sensitive when you refer to N55 M2 as Civic M2.

The Competition section is the happening place, each new thread is bound to get 30+ pages. This car is hot.
As a memorable quote from Pulp Fiction once said...

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I can't believe this is the same car.

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Well, let's not start sucking each other's d***s just yet.
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      05-19-2018, 10:19 PM   #90
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Lol each thread and discussion turns into a joke debacle
It is f*cking hilarious. There are a few current M2 owners that are locks to show up and talk sh*t in each new thread. The same ones that get sensitive when you refer to N55 M2 as Civic M2.

The Competition section is the happening place, each new thread is bound to get 30+ pages. This car is hot.
I still don't understand why. Both cars are great. I have enjoyed my car 100%.. and just on paper the M2C pushes the envelope a bit more.

I can understand maybe people that got their current M2 within the last couple months might feel like they got shafted but if they do it's because they haven't got out their and enjoyed their current car enough.

I have, and if the price is right I am ready to move on to another one.

And if it doesn't happen I will just keep enjoying mine like I have so far. The hatred and discussion is hysterical
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      05-19-2018, 10:21 PM   #91
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I'd assume it's the 788M. The thing I find amusing about this is the 0.1% better weight distribution the M2c has over the M2. That's awesome, now if you'll excuse me I need to go look at used Porsche's.
I’m still not convinced the 788M are lighter. Unless there is a lot of material removed from the back of the wheel, then I don’t see how it’s possible.
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      05-19-2018, 10:24 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by BAN_M2 View Post
I still don't understand why. Both cars are great. I have enjoyed my car 100%.. and just on paper the M2C pushes the envelope a bit more.

I can understand maybe people that got their current M2 within the last couple months might feel like they got shafted but if they do it's because they haven't got out their and enjoyed their current car enough.

I have, and if the price is right I am ready to move on to another one.

And if it doesn't happen I will just keep enjoying mine like I have so far. The hatred and discussion is hysterical
People don't behave like this on the Porsche forums, I don't understand why there is so much jealousy here.

Yep, it's not like the existence of the marginally improved Competition makes current M2s any worse. I'd rather have an M2 and enjoy it than be worried about what the latest and greatest is.
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      05-19-2018, 10:26 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by BAN_M2 View Post
I still don't understand why. Both cars are great. I have enjoyed my car 100%.. and just on paper the M2C pushes the envelope a bit more.

I can understand maybe people that got their current M2 within the last couple months might feel like they got shafted but if they do it's because they haven't got out their and enjoyed their current car enough.

I have, and if the price is right I am ready to move on to another one.

And if it doesn't happen I will just keep enjoying mine like I have so far. The hatred and discussion is hysterical
They say they don’t care, but why waste your time in every thread. I feel like the ones that do care but say they don’t, out themselves by how much they post and what they post.

I agree the current M2 is great. BMW M got the Competition(some thought it would be nose heavy) weight distribution correct. It was tested for over a year on the ring and backroads. M further refined the steering, stability control, chassis. They nearly touch everything. I have no doubt the M2C is going to be a great car too.
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      05-19-2018, 10:27 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by M3_WC View Post
I’m still not convinced the 788M are lighter. Unless there is a lot of material removed from the back of the wheel, then I don’t see how it’s possible.
I also would not put much stock in curb weight and weight distribution numbers. They are not quoted as measured using any known standard method. They can basically say whatever they want on them. I have seen a few posts on Rennlist where people had measured large discrepancies between actual weight and the spec sheet that could not be easily explained by fluids or options.
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      05-19-2018, 10:29 PM   #95
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I also would not put much stock in curb weight and weight distribution numbers. They are not quoted as measured using any known standard method. They can basically say whatever they want on them. I have seen a few posts on Rennlist where people had measured large discrepancies between actual weight and the spec sheet that could not be easily explained by fluids or options.
Oh yeah, M4 owners weights have been all over the map since launch.
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      05-19-2018, 10:30 PM   #96
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They could make it lighter if it cost 20k more like your Boxster example. You do not seem to get it.

FWIW a 981 Cayman GT4 weighs more than a base Cayman. Maybe Porsche should stop taking the GM route also.

Maybe you should trade your Z4 35is for a 28 for improved dynamics also?

News flash: The M2 and M2C are primarily street cars. They were and are not the fastest or most dynamically capable cars on track for their price.
That’s less than a 10lb difference. For a load more performance, like the 230i and M2 Comp/Chunk, but that has a 200lb difference.

I no longer have the E89, but the weight diff between 35i vs 35is (which is a more reasonable comparison) was negligible.

SO a 3650 lb M2 that weighs more than an M4 and 350lbs more than a 320i is okay? You gonna let BMW and the engineers off the hook for that? The M2 was supposed to be the purist’s BMW with focus on dynamics and tossable fun. You’re the one that doesn’t seem to get it. What is wrong with you
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      05-19-2018, 10:31 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by cntzl View Post
Firstly, it's not about how difficult it's to remove a seat or other parts of the car. I just want to keep the two front seats along with the rest of the parts intact , period. This isn't goint to be a stripped out, dedicated track car for me. If I didn't need the extra space or the seats, I would have gotten a Corvette at a much better price/performance ratio.

I don't agree at all with what you are saying. The more we say "you can't feel the extra 150lbs" the more weight they will continue to add along with more power. Is this extra 150lbs all because of the S55? Why cannot they offer us a base M2C with none of fancy features/accessories and manual seats? (Just keep the price same and make everything a no cost option. Is this so difficult?) Why are we getting a US spec car which is 182lbs heavier than the EU spec? Anyways... Sorry but I cannot just say "oh BMW finally gave me S55 in a smaller car so I don't care if it weighs 150lbs more because I probably won't feel it".
Bro...yes 150 pounds is 150 pounds and rather than reducing weight, it added weight. You do know that the S55 with supporting equipment is probably your root cause. It’s not like they released a competition model with a N55 and added 150 pounds.

Back to your original claim that general M2C owners will buy all those carbon stuff to reduce 150 pounds. That’s laughable, get real.
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      05-19-2018, 10:32 PM   #98
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They hit a homerun with the current M2 and BMW has a lot to live up to trying to improve it.

Pretty sure there has been a lot put into making the M2C raise the bar further.

I can't wait to hear all the reviews on it when they start letting the media rip it up in them.
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      05-19-2018, 10:35 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by M3_WC View Post
Oh yeah, M4 owners weights have been all over the map since launch.
Yeah, it would be nice if everyone had to measure and report according to an ASTM standard. There is some EU directive but might still be vague like the US definition of curb weight.
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      05-19-2018, 10:37 PM   #100
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Then there are buyers who track occasionally or competitively who must have something lighter. They have a fair point and going the extent to replace genders, removing seats, sound deading, ect is what it takes to get it right.
At first I thought this was just an innocent typo, but after thinking about it, a sex-change operation can help you lose a lot of weight, and some of the driving outfits are just so darn cute. So now we’re talking about the M2Cut-it-off?

Makes sense - in my case, that would be a considerable weight savings.
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      05-19-2018, 10:38 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by boostspoon View Post
Then there are buyers who track occasionally or competitively who must have something lighter. They have a fair point and going the extent to [COLOR="Red"]replace genders[/COLOR], removing seats, sound deading, ect is what it takes to get it right.
At first I thought this was just an innocent typo, but after thinking about it, a sex-change operation can help you lose a lot of weight, and some of the driving outfits are just so darn cute. So now we’re talking about the M2Cut-it-off?

Makes sense - in my case, that would be a considerable weight savings.
It will depend on what size tatas you end up with after cutting it off
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      05-19-2018, 10:42 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by Spa2k View Post
At first I thought this was just an innocent typo, but after thinking about it, a sex-change operation can help you lose a lot of weight, and some of the driving outfits are just so darn cute. So now we’re talking about the M2Cut-it-off?

Makes sense - in my case, that would be a considerable weight savings.
Lol darn, you got me. Fixing the typo now
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      05-19-2018, 10:45 PM   #103
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Oh, no - leave it alone.

All of this comedy is too big for one forum. We should take this show on the road to comedy clubs around the country.
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      05-19-2018, 10:47 PM   #104
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Oh, no - leave it alone.

All of this comedy is too big for one forum. We should take this show on the road to comedy clubs around the country.
Okay fine, I’ll re-edit it back
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      05-19-2018, 10:48 PM   #105
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SO a 3650 lb M2 that weighs more than an M4 and 350lbs more than a 320i is okay? You gonna let BMW and the engineers off the hook for that? The M2 was supposed to be the purist’s BMW with focus on dynamics and tossable fun. You’re the one that doesn’t seem to get it. What is wrong with you
Not letting anyone off the hook. But the M2 competition in Europe is lighter than the M4. Each country has different standard options. One example, in US the M2C is getting Active Driver Assistant standard, M4 that is an option. M2C gets front and rear PDC standard, M4 it is an option. All those sensors, cameras, etc add up. The 2NH brakes are also heavier than M4, they are actually the CCB calipers with iron rotors. In Europe the M2C is more bare bone. cntzl has pointed this out.

All the equipment added to the M2C is a major upgrade, s55 w/ closed block, extra turbo, air to water intercooler, larger oil coolers, chassis stiffening(strutbrace and bulkhead bracing), etc. Yes all this comes with a premium, that is weight. Sure they could go M4 route and add carbon roof, carbon driveshaft, carbon trunk, etc. But that will move M2 into M4 pricing, which is not the point of the M2. I have no doubt the M2C is going to rip and out perform the current M2. And no that is not a shot at the current car, because it is a very good car.

Last edited by M3_WC; 05-19-2018 at 11:00 PM..
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      05-19-2018, 10:49 PM   #106
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That’s less than a 10lb difference. For a load more performance, like the 230i and M2 Comp/Chunk, but that has a 200lb difference.

I no longer have the E89, but the weight diff between 35i vs 35is (which is a more reasonable comparison) was negligible.

SO a 3650 lb M2 that weighs more than an M4 and 350lbs more than a 320i is okay? You gonna let BMW and the engineers off the hook for that? The M2 was supposed to be the purist’s BMW with focus on dynamics and tossable fun. You’re the one that doesn’t seem to get it. What is wrong with you
Here is what you don't understand. I will try to make it clearer for you:

You are buying a finished car and a driving experience, not a spec sheet. You don't even really need to know how much the car weighs. It is a spec that contributes to the driving experience but does NOT solely define it. The suspension setup, steering ratio, wheels/tires, etc. contribute a lot to how the car feels and behaves. It is entirely possible to conceal 150 lbs (about 4.5% weight difference on a 3500 lb car) and actually make the car handle better dynamically depending on what the engineers actually did. There are already cars that handle better than an M2 and weigh more! It is naive to say that the 150 lbs will hurt the dynamic behavior of the car when you have no idea what they have done to the suspension.

From a purely practical standpoint it is obvious why BMW did this. The M2 is their cheapest M car. The N55 wasn't gonna pass emissions so they dropped in the S55. They did not bring over some of the CF weight saving components from the M4 to keep the price down. I don't understand what the problem is? As other posters mentioned, Competition is the new model designation replacing the ZCP option packages. It's never meant to be the same thing as CS, GTS, or CSL.

When it comes out, make a list of all reviews that claim it doesn't handle as well as the current M2 and then you can PM it to me. I guarantee this is going to be an empty list.
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      05-19-2018, 10:52 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by BAN_M2 View Post
They hit a homerun with the current M2 and BMW has a lot to live up to trying to improve it.

Pretty sure there has been a lot put into making the M2C raise the bar further.

I can't wait to hear all the reviews on it when they start letting the media rip it up in them.
We saw first spy shots of this car over a year ago testing on the ring. Guaranteed they dialed this car in.
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      05-19-2018, 10:59 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
Here is what you don't understand. I will try to make it clearer for you:

You are buying a finished car and a driving experience, not a spec sheet. You don't even really need to know how much the car weighs. It is a spec that contributes to the driving experience but does NOT solely define it. The suspension setup, steering ratio, wheels/tires, etc. contribute a lot to how the car feels and behaves. It is entirely possible to conceal 150 lbs (about 4.5% weight difference on a 3500 lb car) and actually make the car handle better dynamically depending on what the engineers actually did. There are already cars that handle better than an M2 and weigh more! It is naive to say that the 150 lbs will hurt the dynamic behavior of the car when you have no idea what they have done to the suspension.


Case in point the Camaro SS1LE. That car has a world chassis(alpha), world class handling and steering. It weighs over 3,750 lbs.
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      05-19-2018, 11:06 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
Here is what you don't understand. I will try to make it clearer for you:

You are buying a finished car and a driving experience, not a spec sheet. You don't even really need to know how much the car weighs. It is a spec that contributes to the driving experience but does NOT solely define it. The suspension setup, steering ratio, wheels/tires, etc. contribute a lot to how the car feels and behaves. It is entirely possible to conceal 150 lbs (about 4.5% weight difference on a 3500 lb car) and actually make the car handle better dynamically depending on what the engineers actually did. There are already cars that handle better than an M2 and weigh more! It is naive to say that the 150 lbs will hurt the dynamic behavior of the car when you have no idea what they have done to the suspension.

From a purely practical standpoint it is obvious why BMW did this. The M2 is their cheapest M car. The N55 wasn't gonna pass emissions so they dropped in the S55. They did not bring over some of the CF weight saving components from the M4 to keep the price down. I don't understand what the problem is? As other posters mentioned, Competition is the new model designation replacing the ZCP option packages. It's never meant to be the same thing as CS, GTS, or CSL.

When it comes out, make a list of all reviews that claim it doesn't handle as well as the current M2 and then you can PM it to me. I guarantee this is going to be an empty list.
I appreciate your description very much actually, as I wasn’t very aware of the new model characteristics... But others and myself are allowed to express disappointment in the way BMW went about this in general. I can process and react to the 150 negatively, especially if everyone knows that weight is critical to dynamics and performance. There are ways they could have mitigated the heft but it wasn’t a priority. I can have my opinion and the weight/dynamics and performance link is fact. I’m allowed to be disappointed. So no, I won’t necessarily just “get it”.
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      05-19-2018, 11:10 PM   #110
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Let me correct that for you:
If you want a lighter weight car in the same category, go buy the current M2 with 6MT.
Good point, I should've said If you want a lighter weight car in the same category 'that's still in production'. As to your point about asking more of the M Bossman, I agree with you. As much as I think the RS3 is a boring car (I am not a fan of Audi) and also doesn't offer a MT. They do have some stuff right like - 1) a powerful yet lightweight engine. 2) Manual seats in a performance car. 3) Plus, take into consideration that it has AWD and still weighs the same as the current MT M2 and less than any version of the M2C is also admirable (imagine how much less it would weigh if it was RWD). Maybe BMW can take some of that and still keep their driving dynamics and come up with a lighter, better version of the M2.

All that being said, I am definitely gonna get my 4th M car when my name comes up on the M2C list. Can't wait.
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