[Romo]

Originally Posted by CosmosMpower

I got a rental M2C in Germany for ED and it had the DCT, it was god awful. The stupid thing could never decide what gear it was in, it was jerky when slowing down to a stop and sometimes it wouldn't upshift and just held at high rpm's while accelerating (1/2 to 3/4 throttle) for about 3-4 seconds before deciding to shift up. I remember the DCT being not so great in my wife's E90 M3 and it doesn't seem to have improved in the 19 M2C either. Glad I got the 6MT.

I had the opportunity testdrive an M4 DCT, and what a disappointment that was.
I compared it to my Cayman 981 GTS PDK.

Well to be honest; no match what so ever, especially in auto mode the PDK is light years ahead, far more crisp, logical, intuitive, more reading what is to be done at a certain point of driving. If DCT is good to some forum members, than PDK is out of this world When driving fast to a roundabout, full breaking PDK auto mode, the PDK shifted back like a madman, BANG, BANG, BANG, BANG, BANG, BANG, GOOSE BUMPS all over me, what a sound, what a speed and reaction, people 500m away stared at me like I was an idiot, but ohh ohh ohh what a driving thrills, I must admit; I Mis that PDK!!

Then I bought an M2 6MT, the shifter is excellent, however the clutch is a disaster to me, too light, lifeless, dead feeling, too long travel and high engagement.

The solution for me; a 718 GT4 PDK

[VIERsr]

There have been big improvements between the first DKGs and the current, if you talk about a 2014 M4 DKG you are talking about something different to the 2019 DKG

[baege]

Originally Posted by Hooptie157

I really feel like these modern boosted engines benefit from a DCT/ZF tranny. They feel COMPLETELY different between the two trannies. I think the DCT keeps the boost consistent and linear and it feel like it pulls like crazy without a break. The manual, while more engaging, seems to lag between shifts if you aren't going balls to the wall. I'm not a race driver but I've been driving stick since 18 and I'm 38 with many track days under my belt so I'm not talking out of my ass.

Now I have a E46 M3 track car and the manual fits that engine perfectly! Maybe N/A and stick is just a better match?

I think you are right on the money on the stick NA connection.

I test drove a 2017 M2 manual and found it way too laggy compared to my 981 Cayman S (I am very sensitive to lag for some weird reason )

I then test drove a 2017 DCT M2 and found the lag was something I could live with

So yes I think NA manual works well, but turbo manual not as well.
So it may well be that the never ending dct manual debate has forever been solved:
turbo motor go DCT
NA, go manual

[Kuervers]

Originally Posted by baege

I think you are right on the money on the stick NA connection.

I test drove a 2017 M2 manual and found it way too laggy compared to my 981 Cayman S (I am very sensitive to lag for some weird reason )

I then test drove a 2017 DCT M2 and found the lag was something I could live with

So yes I think NA manual works well, but turbo manual not as well.
So it may well be that the never ending dct manual debate has forever been solved:
turbo motor go DCT
NA, go manual

Maybe its my BM3 tune but i find on the track that torque is made so low down that there times where i dont need to downshift and power is so linear and controllable that i dont see DCT as big of advantage as one would think.
Never drove a dct only a pdk on test drive.

Hard to compare to Porsche gearboxes both are superior to BMW.

I agree with OP even with large amounts of torque limiting in 1,2,3 the car could benefit from more tire/200tw

[akkando]

Originally Posted by GerardzM

I'm sure I'm not the first to mention this but I find it interesting that he notes the car feels like it has 50/60 hp too much???

Doesn't that put it around the original one?

I don't understand people sometimes.

And he didn't like the original one!

[akkando]

Originally Posted by Romo

I had the opportunity testdrive an M4 DCT, and what a disappointment that was.
I compared it to my Cayman 981 GTS PDK.

Well to be honest; no match what so ever, especially in auto mode the PDK is light years ahead, far more crisp, logical, intuitive, more reading what is to be done at a certain point of driving. If DCT is good to some forum members, than PDK is out of this world When driving fast to a roundabout, full breaking PDK auto mode, the PDK shifted back like a madman, BANG, BANG, BANG, BANG, BANG, BANG, GOOSE BUMPS all over me, what a sound, what a speed and reaction, people 500m away stared at me like I was an idiot, but ohh ohh ohh what a driving thrills, I must admit; I Mis that PDK!!

Then I bought an M2 6MT, the shifter is excellent, however the clutch is a disaster to me, too light, lifeless, dead feeling, too long travel and high engagement.

The solution for me; a 718 GT4 PDK

I don't think anyone praising the DCT is driving it in auto mode. It has a reputation for strange behavior in auto mode. It really wants to be driven either gently or hard, so it's more obvious what it should do.

The solution? Drive it in manual mode. Probably still not as good as PDK, but still good!

[KevinM]

Originally Posted by heavyD^2

He's not my favorite but I like that he is one of the few in the automotive media that was willing to address the manual transmission problems in the Civic Type R. It's a good video as he explains how automakers purposely never admit to known problems until it escalates to a point where they have no choice.

All the reviews of the Civic describe it as a brilliant manual transmission but plenty of owners have had issues and I wonder sometimes if media kind of avoids being critical of this stuff because they badly want the manual transmission to remain relevant as they will always point out the flaws in a DCT or other Auto transmission but rarely will they pick apart a manual transmission. Heck several posters here seem to believe the M2 manual transmission isn't very good but have you ever seen a single review where the reviewer said anything bad about it?

Well. That was interesting. No oil temp gauge in the Civic Type R.. And here I was being annoyed that the M2Cs oil temp gauge is buried in the OBC display rather than being a dedicated gauge like in every other M car I have owned....

[GerardzM]

Originally Posted by akkando

And he didn't like the original one!

Really?

Just proves a lot of these journalists will say anything to get their hands on a vehicle to review.

[akkando]

Originally Posted by GerardzM

Really?

Just proves a lot of these journalists will say anything to get their hands on a vehicle to review.

Well I should say they didn't give him one to review originally, he was invited to an event at a track where he got limited time to do laps in several vehicles. It's clear they didn't give him much time it explain how the settings in the m2 worked because he wanted to drive it with all nannies off but didn't know what to push, so he said it was too complicated with too many buttons. He's got a lot of track experience so he was probably irritated with sport mode or whatever.

The m2c he didn't get from bmw to review, Tri industries is auctioning the car to help disabled folks and he promotes the auction. So BMW didn't provide him the car.

I don't share always agree with him, but I believe he is honest.

[Brake_Late]

I still say it's endless endless fun and it forces you to pay good attention as well to all surroundings. More work certainly, but like always ... worth it.
For a sports car - I like rowing

For my other cars / uses dct is fine. Fun yet boring as well - computer - do it for me etc.

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by Brake_Late

I still say it's endless endless fun and it forces you to pay good attention as well to all surroundings. More work certainly, but like always ... worth it.
For a sports car - I like rowing

For my other cars / uses dct is fine. Fun yet boring as well - computer - do it for me etc.

Also,

With an auto or DCT, I've notice that due to the lack of tactile engagement, you just want to play with the paddles, hit the gas and indiscriminately speed. Way faster than you would drive in a manually controlled vehicle. Almost like a video game.

With a manual, at least with me, you can pace yourself with acceleration and not feel the need to keep pressing it out to derive driving pleasure.

This thread and topic can run around in circles for months but the fact is two sets of people prefer one form of driving over the other.

Why is this so difficult for some to understand and accept..

[CTSean]

Originally Posted by akkando

It's clear they didn't give him much time it explain how the settings in the m2 worked because he wanted to drive it with all nannies off but didn't know what to push, so he said it was too complicated with too many buttons.

Which is weird since there's only 2 buttons and one of them is the same as the button in his E92 M3

[Bumpinjeep]

Why did this turn into a automatic vs manual debate?
Does an automatic transmission ruin the car? No to some, yes to others.
Is a dual clutch automatic a the automatic to have in a car? No to some, yes to others.
Let's be honest here, no matter what anyone says, they're not going to convince a stranger on the internet that one is better than the other.
Besides, we should be glad that there are options for people. Imagine having a physical disability and wanting to drive the car but unable to shift gears? Well, you can with the auto & there's nothing wrong with that.

[gmazet]

Originally Posted by Bumpinjeep

Why did this turn into a automatic vs manual debate?
Does an automatic transmission ruin the car? No to some, yes to others.
Is a dual clutch automatic a the automatic to have in a car? No to some, yes to others.
Let's be honest here, no matter what anyone says, they're not going to convince a stranger on the internet that one is better than the other.
Besides, we should be glad that there are options for people. Imagine having a physical disability and wanting to drive the car but unable to shift gears? Well, you can with the auto & there's nothing wrong with that.

because people love a good pointless debate.. if it weren't for that fact this site would have like 8 posts

[Bumpinjeep]

Originally Posted by gmazet

because people love a good pointless debate.. if it weren't for that fact this site would have like 8 posts

In that case...whoever buys an automatic, no matter what they call it, isn't a car enthusiast and should be forced to drive a Prius or any car with a CVT, but only in reverse, on the freeway, in traffic.

[Brake_Late]

Let's pause for a fun commercial break:

🤟🏼

[gmazet]

Originally Posted by Bumpinjeep

In that case...whoever buys an automatic, no matter what they call it, isn't a car enthusiast and should be forced to drive a Prius or any car with a CVT, but only in reverse, on the freeway, in traffic.

and anyone who wants manual transmission should just cut a hole in the floor and Fred Flintstone their way around. you can't be more connected to the road any other way

[Brake_Late]

Originally Posted by gmazet

any anyone who wants manual transmission should just cut a hole in the floor and Fred Flintstone their way around. you can't be more connected to the road any other way

Lemme get right on that !

[bri1042]

There's no question that Mr. Geese is a bit of a Luddite if you've watched a lot of his reviews. He comes from an IT background (he's mentioned UI design a few times, specifically), so it can be pretty funny to put his attitudes towards the tech-filled modern world together with what he used to do. His attitude is more negative than positive, as well. I think he would have been less than fun to attend meetings with back in his IT days. I can't actually recall the last time I finished one of his videos thinking he actually really liked the car.

He's not necessarily wrong about a lot of the things he doesn't like, but I'm pretty sure he'd talk himself out of liking anything new if it could be compared with something old that he liked back when he was 22.

[gmazet]

Originally Posted by Brake_Late

Lemme get right on that !

look at those pants!

[AlpsRider]

Bell bottoms baby! Also the controversial pot leaf on the bumper. Didn't you hear, the 60's are back!

[gmazet]

must be a new instagram filter putting all that in