[cptobvious]

I do think that other manufacturers are coming up with some pretty innovative and amazing products, and it's good to know what else is out there. I've watched a lot of reviews now about GM's alpha platform, and absolutely everyone raves especially about their magnetorheological damping. How awesome would it be if some BMW product manager came through Bimmerpost sometime and listened to us enthusiasts and incorporated that into the M suspension?

I do feel really bad for any product manufacturer. They're trying to please so many different constituencies, where oftentimes desires are diametrically opposed.

My perfect car would drive like a Cayman, have the interior of an Aston, be able to seat 10 but still feel as small as an MG, be as reliable as a Toyota, get 200 mpg, and do 0-60 in 2.1 seconds. Oh, and it can't cost more than $50k.

I don't know why BMW hasn't gotten off it's ass and built me that car yet.

What I took away from the review is:

1. Perfect, best bang for the buck track weapon: Camaro
2. Perfect, buttoned up, adult daily driver: RS3
3. #1 and #2 get married, have a baby, who provides fun, but can also serve as a "respectable" daily driver: M2C

Not a bad niche for the M2C to reside in!

[Brake_Late]

Question
( asking in a humble and non smart ass manner )
Does Chevy even have a manufacturers race program in play at present ? I know VW/ Audi does of course and that speaks well for itself.

Lineage in Racing on the ' world stage ' as a Manufacturer (!)
( let's say for the past 30 or 40 years or so ...) counts for something overall. VW/ Porsche included here of course as well.
I'm talking about actively racing factory against factory here ...
Not just for a magazine article, random track days, or like events.
I know they must have something just can't find it....as we all know ...Cadillac briefly dipped in and out of Racing for a stint
ages ago now...fast cars for sure.
But can they stand the test of real racing and time like the recent Jahre and heritage bmw has proven and now celebrates ? And by JAHRE I mean the definition not the car.
Regardless of the anemic cars they give us these days their racing is well respected from auto X to club racing to DTM And everything ( almost ) in between. Including Dakar and BMW Motorrad and cycles. Actual Pro Racing

I'd make a one time 'brand exception' for this one tho ! And in the end it's the driver that gets it done along WITH the car or tool at hand.
And remember it's ONLY a 2 series lol.
Which is half of 4, a third of 6, and a fourth of 8er...so well done little giant.

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.timei...0%3fsource=dam

- #yesbmwfanboy
I just like em

[M-Pilot]

Originally Posted by Brake_Late

Question
( asking in a humble and non smart ass manner )
Does Chevy even have a manufacturers race program in play at present ? I know VW/ Audi does of course and that speaks well for itself.

Lineage in Racing on the ' world stage ' as a Manufacturer (!)
( let's say for the past 30 or 40 years or so ...) counts for something overall. VW/ Porsche included here of course as well.
I'm talking about actively racing factory against factory here ...
Not just for a magazine article, random track days, or like events.
I know they must have something just can't find it....as we all know ...Cadillac briefly dipped in and out of Racing for a stint
ages ago now...fast cars for sure.
But can they stand the test of real racing and time like the recent Jahre and heritage bmw has proven and now celebrates ? And by JAHRE I mean the definition not the car.
Regardless of the anemic cars they give us these days their racing is well respected from auto X to club racing to DTM And everything ( almost ) in between. Including Dakar and BMW Motorrad and cycles. Actual Pro Racing

I'd make a one time 'brand exception' for this one tho !

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.timei...0%3fsource=dam

- #yesbmwfanboy por vida

Yes, they do have a motorsport team

"Corvette Racing closed its 20th IMSA season and once again defeated Porsche, Ferrari, Ford and BMW to clinch its 12th Driver Championship and 13th team title. A full season of true teamwork proved to be the ultimate factor in the win. Congratulations to the Corvette Racing team and our drivers Antonio Garcia and Jan Magnussen."

[Brake_Late]

Great.
Aware as I share the same exact last name as the driver you mentioned here. Norwegians. So I'm aware.
I meant the Camaro mostly.

Apples to apples and all

Woohoo here we go with mention of a debut

https://www.chevrolet.com/motorsports

[BlkSVT]

Originally Posted by cptobvious

My perfect car would drive like a Cayman, have the interior of an Aston, be able to seat 10 but still feel as small as an MG, be as reliable as a Toyota, get 200 mpg, and do 0-60 in 2.1 seconds. Oh, and it can't cost more than $50k.

It's so bad that I'm pretty sure my perfect car would have to come w/a 10 car garage and my choice of 9 other cars for mornings I don't want to drive my perfect car!
#shortattentionspan
#nobrandloyalty

[uniqueMR]

M2 Competition

[Lorde]

Originally Posted by FSU_Logan

worst sports car on the market for street driving. you cannot see shit

I feel really bad for the Australians who are going from their amazing Commodore platform to the Camaro. I can't wait for the visibility complaints to start pouring in.

[Brake_Late]

[BlkSVT]

So much Camaro talk on here, I went to the site and built one. Have to admit it is entertaining to take it from $26k to $63k just by checking the Supercharged 6.2 option box!

[jhall1957]

I'd like to see the comparo with the M2C and the 2019 Mustang GT PP2. Mustang has all the tools the Camaro had plus being able to see out it!

Never again will I Audi! Bought a TT RS and it sucked terribly on the track! Traded for S4(before RS was out) and it was even worst. Safe cars yes, but way to boring!

[mtoosexy]

Originally Posted by Craig335d

TTRS does feel a better drive than RS3, but the difference IMO was largely limited to the seating position and seats.

It however suffers from the same downsides as the RS3 - lifeless steering, Haldex, and poor damping. Understeer is a real issue.

To answer why the RS3 over the TTRS, I think it's the more manly option in saloon format, over the TT, which is affectionately known as a "hairdressers car" over here.

Lol... where is "over here"?
Here, the TT(fill in the blank) is a stripper's car. One step up from a Mitsubishi SHEclipse. And this IS coming from an Audi Fanboi. I was at Audi a few months back, a salesman basically begged me to take the TTRS out for a drive. Top 5 quickest car I have ever driven. Buuuut I dont have enough estrogen in my body to drive this car everday.

[Germanauto]

It's cute when Audi thinks they can best BMW, especially from a driving standpoint.

[evanescent03]

Originally Posted by ChrisK

I had the SS1LE and an S3. And F80s. I loved the M3 (6MT and a tune) and thought the S3 was quick (also tuned). The Camaro is not a gentleman's car but easily the biggest grin and a big grin more of the time. Superb as a daily driver too. With more noticeable adjustability to the exhaust note and suspension than the other cars, it could glide over rough pavement and let the neighbors sleep when I'd fire it up at 3am. More leg room than the S3 but only in the front seats. By far most capable on the track.

S3 is great to dink around in and zip through traffic. Tight interior and harsh ride.

M2 - haven't driven but I'm sure most of what the Camaro offers except a little less grip, and much less noise. Much more class.

[P1]

Originally Posted by FSU_Logan

worst sports car on the market for street driving. you cannot see shit

You're not lying. I drove three separate ones, including a convertible for a few weeks and as much fun as they are to drive, visibility is awful and downright dangerous. Not an issue in the convertible, naturally, but only with the top down.

[ekbusdriver]

I have not driven the M2C yet.
I am happy to have access to the RS3 hatch over in this half of the world. I have driven it and love it!!
I have driven the Camaro with the automatic. Less than a week ago, I convincingly put one to bed in a bit of roll-on fun.

A real toss up between the BMW and the Audi for me, but the Audi RS3 Hatch is far more useable machine for everyday life. And that sound.......

[IB M]

Originally Posted by FSU_Logan

worst sports car on the market for street driving. you cannot see shit

Sums it up for me. If Camaro had a more sensible/functional design it would be really hard to beat with that V8 and overall performance. GM can't design anything well anymore except a pick-up truck and a corvette.

[adc]

I just returned from a track event at VIR where I had the pleasure of running with an SS 1LE on track, similar drivers. He was quicker in some sections, mostly due to better front end grip but I would say the overall suspension was better for track use. To match it, you would need a set of good coil overs and some hefty camber in the M2/3/4 due to the front tire size limitation.

I also had a passenger ride in an instructor’s ZL1 1LE stick, and it blew me away. I was able to see where the chassis/tire combo was doing better than the M3, and the most noticeable positive aspect was just how quickly it would settle, without any wasted movement, in some very tough transitions and driven at 9.5/10 capacity.

Only scary thing was that in understeer/oversteer situations the breakaway was very rough with the car skittering on the surface rather than the creamy transition I get in the M3. And consumables are disappearing even faster than in the M3 so you need to budget for that.

The paddock was full of ZL1 Camaros and Z06 Vettes, indicating to me that people have started moving over from the Porsche’s and BMWs to these new GM platforms, which offer more bang for the buck. But the interesting thing is that most of these cars were trailered to the track, so they were just track toys and perhaps the occasional weekend rompmobiles. The lower cost enables a new category of users to have exclusive track toys at the same level with the GT Porsche’s and other exotica, at a third the cost.

If I didn’t have to ferry kids to practice and whatnot, it would be very tempting to get a GrandSport Vette or a ZL1, they are tremendous cars but not necessarily good daily drivers (yes I know some people put up with them but that’s not my point, I couldn’t squeeze my family in a Camaro for a Sunday drive).


So for the time being, and for the type of user I am, the M2/3/4 is still the better choice. But don’t discount the GM products, I think at the moment they along with Porsche have the best suspension implementation in the non supercar realm.

Audi is a non starter for me.

[adc]

Originally Posted by IB M

Sums it up for me. If Camaro had a more sensible/functional design it would be really hard to beat with that V8 and overall performance. GM can't design anything well anymore except a pick-up truck and a corvette.

There is the ATS-V, but the engine is not up to par in that car, and it is expensive. If GM designed a 4 door Camaro with the V8, manual gearbox and more function over style, i would switch.

[paliknight]

Originally Posted by doberzus

Sounds like you're butthurt? I am just speaking facts on the performance side of things. I mean, it's not like I did not own TWO F80's with the S55 engine. The TTRS is just simply faster and better performing in the real world. Not to mention it sounds far better.

But yeah, BMW is the best car in the world...duhh

I own an 18 F80 ZCP and an M2C. You can't compare the two. M2C is a superior vehicle in driving dynamics. Puts down power superbly and handles even better. It truly inspires more confidence than the F80 ZCP does.

Have driven the TTRS and it does NOT blow the M2C out of the water. You are dramatically exaggerating.

[mr_lab_rat]

I'm gonna have to drive the Camaro. Everyone keeps repeating how terrible the visibility is but I would really like to test it myself.
Everyone complained about the M2 seat angle, absolutely no problem for me.
Also everyone complained about the RS3 understeer, I test drove it and it was good enough for me.

I actually test drove the M2 and RS3 back to back. I liked the RS3 a lot but in the end it came down to the lack of manual gearbox.

[3tekcorps]

Originally Posted by mr_lab_rat

I'm gonna have to drive the Camaro. Everyone keeps repeating how terrible the visibility is but I would really like to test it myself.
Everyone complained about the M2 seat angle, absolutely no problem for me.
Also everyone complained about the RS3 understeer, I test drove it and it was good enough for me.

I actually test drove the M2 and RS3 back to back. I liked the RS3 a lot but in the end it came down to the lack of manual gearbox.

Didn't the RS3 feel too softly sprung compared to the M2?

[mr_lab_rat]

Originally Posted by 3tekcorps

Didn't the RS3 feel too softly sprung compared to the M2?

Not really, it was softer but it didn't lean in the corners (the car had the optional non adjustable sport suspension).
Ride comfort is very subjective. For my style of driving and the roads I use the M2 is close to my personal comfort level limit (any stiffer would be probably too much). The RS3 was at the other end of my range (I wouldn't want it any softer).

So both where acceptable but it came down to the lack of manual transmission.

I was very impressed by the sound, ride comfort, grip, interior finish, the digital dashboard. It's a very good car.

In my opinion the sound was:

M2 with MPE > Audi RS3 > M2 stock > bunch of other cars > M2C