[SteveinArizona]

The first time my dealer markup up an MSRP is the last time I deal with that dealer.

[psun786]

Any massively produced M car or any car will not hold its value. Luxury performance car depreciate faster than everything else. Expect 40% drop after 3 years. So buying M2C with markup just doesn't make any sense.

Two years ago when I was shopping for Ford Focus RS, Ford of Escondido has one but want $5000 markup plus mandatory snow tire/wheel purchase. No thanks! We are in SoCal and don't need snow tires! I laughed and walked away. Guess what, I just got a call from them 3 weeks earlier asking me if I am still interested in buying one with $2000 below MSRP.

[Flying Ace]

this is a stupid purchase considering the car has a lease residual value of around 50%.

[mbchris]

It is really great that dealerships mark up. Because that is usually the only way, other than used market that successful and wealthy people can buy the car they want.

These people are time poor money wealthy. They may only hear about the M2C a month after release or seeing it on the road. What can they do then? Join a waitlist for a year? These folks usually aren't that patient.

Would people rather the government mandate MSRP? And purchases be via lottery? Or at dealership discretion? If that were the case, enthusiasts wouldn't be able to get a car easily.

Try and get something like a Rolex Daytona for list. Rolex tells its dealers to stick to MSRP. So this creates a huge black market, you can buy at MSRP if a good customer, or just forget it if you are a nobody. Same goes for a Ferrari.

At least this way, us "nobodies" have a chance at getting one at MSRP. The other way would be almost no chance.

Also look at the positives. Wealthy guy becomes poorer. Dealership makes more. Salesman makes more. Staff gets higher compensation. Much more flow on effects into the economy.

[bunker]

Originally Posted by HPIA4v2

, that's why lease FTW.
I have not run the number but someone says M4 ZCP lease is cheaper than M2C

All BMW M depreciate about 45-50% in 3 years, last year I was looking at 2015 M6 GC for $59K, nice but used car so there is always risk.

My dealer told me quite candidly that M2C will be "unleaseable"

[phefner]

A fool will be separated from his money.

Would "Black List" that dealer.

[phefner]

Originally Posted by psun786

Any massively produced M car or any car will not hold its value. Luxury performance car depreciate faster than everything else. Expect 40% drop after 3 years. So buying M2C with markup just doesn't make any sense.

Two years ago when I was shopping for Ford Focus RS, Ford of Escondido has one but want $5000 markup plus mandatory snow tire/wheel purchase. No thanks! We are in SoCal and don't need snow tires! I laughed and walked away. Guess what, I just got a call from them 3 weeks earlier asking me if I am still interested in buying one with $2000 below MSRP.

That's how it's done. Great job !

[3tekcorps]

Originally Posted by michal12

11% off sticker now publicly available in Europe. Different world..

So.. What's your out the door price after that 11% discount?

[Ibiza]

Originally Posted by mbchris

It is really great that dealerships mark up. Because that is usually the only way, other than used market that successful and wealthy people can buy the car they want.

These people are time poor money wealthy. They may only hear about the M2C a month after release or seeing it on the road. What can they do then? Join a waitlist for a year? These folks usually aren't that patient.

Would people rather the government mandate MSRP? And purchases be via lottery? Or at dealership discretion? If that were the case, enthusiasts wouldn't be able to get a car easily.

Try and get something like a Rolex Daytona for list. Rolex tells its dealers to stick to MSRP. So this creates a huge black market, you can buy at MSRP if a good customer, or just forget it if you are a nobody. Same goes for a Ferrari.

At least this way, us "nobodies" have a chance at getting one at MSRP. The other way would be almost no chance.

Also look at the positives. Wealthy guy becomes poorer. Dealership makes more. Salesman makes more. Staff gets higher compensation. Much more flow on effects into the economy.

Your reasoning is way off! A M2C is not even close to the same luxury category as a Rolex Daytona (personally Rolex is shit American blotted steel, maybe compare to a Audemars Piguet or Patek Philippe) or a Ferrari.

Your smoking some good ganja comparing a mass produced M2C to a one of kind luxury item.

PS I purchased a Cartier limited edition Roadster chronograph years ago for the first F1 night race to occur in Singapore when I was in Singapore. Only 100 made in the world, as I have #007 of 100. That was worth paying MRSP of $10,000.

[michal12]

Originally Posted by 3tekcorps

So.. What's your out the door price after that 11% discount?

What I can see it should be EUR 46 269 plus tax.

[psun786]

Originally Posted by mbchris

It is really great that dealerships mark up. Because that is usually the only way, other than used market that successful and wealthy people can buy the car they want.

Why would "wealthy" people be interest in a $58k massively produced car is beyond me. LoL. It not even flagship model or collector's edition. This is no difference than paying $5000 markup on a mid-range Mercedes, Lexus or Infiniti, or Those who pay double at iPhone launch to scalpers.

It has nothing to do with wealth, but some people just can't delayed gratification instead.

We all know the street is going to be flooded with M2 just like M3/M4 in a year or two. There is nothing special about M2, it is just another well designed M car.

[rich8566]

Disgusting. What a sham. I would NEVER do business with this dealer ever! LoJack too - are you kidding me? Blacklist this dealer.

[cptobvious]

Originally Posted by mbchris

It is really great that dealerships mark up. Because that is usually the only way, other than used market that successful and wealthy people can buy the car they want.

These people are time poor money wealthy. They may only hear about the M2C a month after release or seeing it on the road. What can they do then? Join a waitlist for a year? These folks usually aren't that patient.

Would people rather the government mandate MSRP? And purchases be via lottery? Or at dealership discretion? If that were the case, enthusiasts wouldn't be able to get a car easily.

Try and get something like a Rolex Daytona for list. Rolex tells its dealers to stick to MSRP. So this creates a huge black market, you can buy at MSRP if a good customer, or just forget it if you are a nobody. Same goes for a Ferrari.

At least this way, us "nobodies" have a chance at getting one at MSRP. The other way would be almost no chance.

Also look at the positives. Wealthy guy becomes poorer. Dealership makes more. Salesman makes more. Staff gets higher compensation. Much more flow on effects into the economy.

You and me, brother, we are kindred souls. Unfortunately, the percentage of the population that believes in free markets is approximately... well, it's probably a rounding error at best. (Libertarian Party took 3.28% of the vote in 2016. That's a rounding error, right?)

You and me, we'll keep fighting the good fight. Though, I suspect we'll mostly just get tarred and feathered. Unfortunately, I've learned to just keep my mouth shut, because anytime I open it to speak out on behalf of the concept of... oh, say, individual liberty, people look at me like I've grown a 2nd head, and I embarrass my poor wife - we just tell people that I'm on the spectrum and then they forgive me.

And given where things seem to be going, yes, I suspect your nightmare scenario will come true: At some point, somebody's going to sponsor legislation requiring cars be sold at MSRP and high demand items can only be had through lotteries... except for the well-connected, who own dachas next to the Volga River.

[Remonster]

Originally Posted by P1et

Again, absolutely laughable. Please, someone go and shame this dealership. Braman, EAD. Didn't we learn anything from the M4 GTS?

Hope it sits forever, and that they will end up having to sell it for loss...

Speaking of the M4 GTS, the dealership I went to last weekend STILL has a new M4 GTS that it hasn't managed to sell yet.

[Spitfire007]

Ok ok. I'll be the bad apple here and I'll say what many are probably thinking....

IT'S JUST A CAR.

Holy hell. There is so much you could do with that mark up. And then, how can you buy the latest and greatest knowing going to depreciate so badly in 3 years?

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by Spitfire007

Ok ok. I'll be the bad apple here and I'll say what many are probably thinking....

IT'S JUST A CAR.

Holy hell. There is so much you could do with that mark up. And then, how can you buy the latest and greatest knowing going to depreciate so badly in 3 years?

Hell, one year - we all know the M2CS is coming.

[Flying Ace]

Originally Posted by Ibiza

Your reasoning is way off! A M2C is not even close to the same luxury category as a Rolex Daytona (personally Rolex is shit American blotted steel, maybe compare to a Audemars Piguet or Patek Philippe) or a Ferrari.

Your smoking some good ganja comparing a mass produced M2C to a one of kind luxury item.

PS I purchased a Cartier limited edition Roadster chronograph years ago for the first F1 night race to occur in Singapore when I was in Singapore. Only 100 made in the world, as I have #007 of 100. That was worth paying MRSP of $10,000.

plus Ferraris are not going at over list either.

[Flying Ace]

Originally Posted by cptobvious

You and me, brother, we are kindred souls. Unfortunately, the percentage of the population that believes in free markets is approximately... well, it's probably a rounding error at best. (Libertarian Party took 3.28% of the vote in 2016. That's a rounding error, right?)

You and me, we'll keep fighting the good fight. Though, I suspect we'll mostly just get tarred and feathered. Unfortunately, I've learned to just keep my mouth shut, because anytime I open it to speak out on behalf of the concept of... oh, say, individual liberty, people look at me like I've grown a 2nd head, and I embarrass my poor wife - we just tell people that I'm on the spectrum and then they forgive me.

And given where things seem to be going, yes, I suspect your nightmare scenario will come true: At some point, somebody's going to sponsor legislation requiring cars be sold at MSRP and high demand items can only be had through lotteries... except for the well-connected, who own dachas next to the Volga River.

dude, no one's questioning about the dealer's ability to do it. What people are questioning is the poor financial choice here.

This car has a lease residual of 50%!!! It's not a limited edition car, and the moment BMW comes out with another M2, the price plummets. All that indicates this car should only sell at or below MSRP.

People have more money than sense. Everyone is in the different financial situation. I know people who are getting passive real estate rental incomes or dividend incomes in the $100,000s level every year. Sure they can buy whatever they want and not worry about a rainy day because they got passive income. If they want to piss it away, I'm cool with it. I'll just snicker when I see them driving a $60k M2...when for the same money, you can get much better cars.

[Alpine300zhp]

Originally Posted by Ibiza

Your reasoning is way off! A M2C is not even close to the same luxury category as a Rolex Daytona (personally Rolex is shit American blotted steel, maybe compare to a Audemars Piguet or Patek Philippe) or a Ferrari.

Your smoking some good ganja comparing a mass produced M2C to a one of kind luxury item.

PS I purchased a Cartier limited edition Roadster chronograph years ago for the first F1 night race to occur in Singapore when I was in Singapore. Only 100 made in the world, as I have #007 of 100. That was worth paying MRSP of $10,000.

I agree

[psun786]

Originally Posted by cptobvious

You and me, brother, we are kindred souls. Unfortunately, the percentage of the population that believes in free markets is approximately... well, it's probably a rounding error at best. (Libertarian Party took 3.28% of the vote in 2016. That's a rounding error, right?)

You and me, we'll keep fighting the good fight. Though, I suspect we'll mostly just get tarred and feathered. Unfortunately, I've learned to just keep my mouth shut, because anytime I open it to speak out on behalf of the concept of... oh, say, individual liberty, people look at me like I've grown a 2nd head, and I embarrass my poor wife - we just tell people that I'm on the spectrum and then they forgive me.

And given where things seem to be going, yes, I suspect your nightmare scenario will come true: At some point, somebody's going to sponsor legislation requiring cars be sold at MSRP and high demand items can only be had through lotteries... except for the well-connected, who own dachas next to the Volga River.

It is not about political correctness but business model instead.

M2 is a massively produced car, and the current shortage is temporary. The dealer probably getting no more than 1 or 2 units that is why they decided to mark it up few thousands.

Did the dealer pay more for these M2 from BMW than future batch? NO

Do they make more money on these 1 or 2 transactions? Yes. units.

This small profit is nothing compare to entire profit volume because its only on 1 or 2 transactions.

If a dealer is willing to seek any opportunity to make a buck or two and doesn't care about their image as a company. It tells me there is a good chance they will cheat customer whenever they can as long as they can get away with it. (new car sale, maintenance, warranty service or parts). That is a dealer I will try to avoid.

[Alpine300zhp]

Originally Posted by psun786

It is not about political correctness but business model instead.

M2 is a massively produced car, and the current shortage is temporary. The dealer probably getting no more than 1 or 2 units that is why they decided to mark it up few thousands.

Did the dealer pay more for these M2 from BMW than future batch? NO

Do they make more money on these 1 or 2 transactions? Yes. units.

This small profit is nothing compare to entire profit volume because its only on 1 or 2 transactions.

If a dealer is willing to seek any opportunity to make a buck or two and doesn't care about their image as a company. It tell me there is a good chance they will cheat customer whenever they can as long as they can get away with it. (new car sale, maintenance, warranty service or parts). That is a dealer I will try to avoid.

Your bold is true. Especially when talking about Braman.

[cptobvious]

Originally Posted by Flying Ace

dude, no one's questioning about the dealer's ability to do it. What people are questioning is the poor financial choice here.

This car has a lease residual of 50%!!! It's not a limited edition car, and the moment BMW comes out with another M2, the price plummets. All that indicates this car should only sell at or below MSRP.

People have more money than sense. Everyone is in the different financial situation. I know people who are getting passive real estate rental incomes or dividend incomes in the $100,000s level every year. Sure they can buy whatever they want and not worry about a rainy day because they got passive income. If they want to piss it away, I'm cool with it. I'll just snicker when I see them driving a $60k M2...when for the same money, you can get much better cars.

That makes perfect sense. I think this just points out that different human beings have different preferences. What may seem like a "poor choice" to one person may seem like a perfectly rational choice to another.

Let me apologize now. I feel like I'm going off into crazy land and my autism is acting up again. So, let me put in this emoji now as a warning to anybody reading!

For example, my wife will spend gobs of money on paintings. Plein air is her thing. Now, whenever we're in bed after the kids are finally down and she's browsing pictures of paintings at whatever art gallery, I roll my eyes. Why in the world would any rational human being buy a painting??? You can just look at the damn thing on your phone! It's the same picture!!! But, I'm sure to her it's perfectly rational!

Meanwhile, I sit here on this forum like 80 hours a week, I obsess over every single Instagram photo of Hockenheim Silver, and she thinks I've lost my damn mind! Which I have! It wouldn't matter to her if I bought the car for $30k when MSRP is $58,900 or if I bought the car for $90k. To her, it's insane, and a "poor financial decision" when I could just get a Jetta for $15k.

But, we respect each other's preferences, as insane as they may seem.

My assumption, if somebody buys an M2C for $20k over MSRP is simply that that person has evaluated their own personal situation and determined that, given all relevant alternatives, that's how he/she would like to spend their money to fulfill their preferences. All good. Who am I to judge? I'm sure other people look at me, buying my M2C for MSRP and think, "That dude is an idiot with more money than sense. He could just buy a Jetta for $15k." Maybe I am an idiot with more money than sense, for all I know!

But, I kind of feel like that would be like judging someone harshly for having a preference for strawberry ice cream over chocolate. It's just different strokes for different folks.

... No, I take that back. Chocolate ice cream is empirically and objectively better than strawberry.