[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by den525

Loving all the comments... Lol

Yes it's a standing start... So what? They're all running to the same conditions. It's actually a more realistic test than flying lap, these aren't race cars, they're road cars where there are a lot of traffic lights! It's like a drag race and lap time rolled into one. I actually quite like it.

As for track lap times... I've never heard of this track before... But based on the descriptions, it only have 5 corners, it's a very short lap... So a car like M2 can't take as much of an advantage.

At the end of the day... The only lap time I'm interested in is the Nurburgring... It's the only track that's long enough with all different corners, long and short straights... It's a proper test. All these other tests on different tracks are generally short tracks with bias characteristics eg. Tracks with a lot of straights or corner or power tracks or slow tracks.

So am I as well , particularly the comments about the standing lap. Interesting because TOP GEAR did the exact same thing for decades

[eau_rouge]

Originally Posted by F1zbo

Regarding the CTR test in Sport Auto I believe the measured engine power was around only 270hp and it was substantially slower on the straights than both Golf R and Seat Leon Cupra.

Yes, it had 276 hp (PS). From 0-200 and 200-0 it took the CTR 26,7s. That is 3,5s slower than an M135i and 1,5s slower than a Golf R.

I really don't understand the hype about this car.

[ThugzZ BunnY]

It's funny seeing all the comments bashing fwd. I was just at global time attack in road Atlanta and there was an eg hatchback civic shitting on everything in its class (including two gtr's). The fastest cars in C class and the B class were both civics. A class was an sti. RWD is not King anymore.

[bimmerj]

So many armchair experts, it is not funny anymore .

[technik330]

Originally Posted by ThugzZ BunnY

It's funny seeing all the comments bashing fwd. I was just at global time attack in road Atlanta and there was an eg hatchback civic shitting on everything in its class (including two gtr's). The fastest cars in C class and the B class were both civics. A class was an sti. RWD is not King anymore.

Any links to the event?

I'm a huge fan of fwd, it's just fun.

[ThugzZ BunnY]

Originally Posted by technik330

Any links to the event?

I'm a huge fan of fwd, it's just fun.

I don't have any. I'm sure you can just YouTube "global time attack road Atlanta" and you'll get a ton of videos.

[Powaup]

Originally Posted by eddunn

They all did one lap from a standing start. This is why the AWD cars were close. My guess is that the margin would be much greater on flying laps for the M2 and that the civic would move up the order.

Yup my exact thoughts. Also, isn't the Civic Type R running cup 2 tires?

[3tekcorps]

Originally Posted by BruceM

No interest in a front-wheel drive track car. Zero. Otherwise, I'm surprised the M2 didn't top the others by greater margins, given other drives we've seen...

Reminds me of that Vic Elford quote I need to put into my signature line. He stated something like "the only advantages offered by front wheel drive are economic". That's going off my memory. I'll have to dig that book out.

[Powaup]

Originally Posted by den525

At the end of the day... The only lap time I'm interested in is the Nurburgring... It's the only track that's long enough with all different corners, long and short straights... It's a proper test. All these other tests on different tracks are generally short tracks with bias characteristics eg. Tracks with a lot of straights or corner or power tracks or slow tracks.

Originally Posted by brava09

Sure, you're right, Nurburgring is a proper test. Go see below how the Type R lapped faster than the M4

https://nurburgringlaptimes.com/lap-times-top-100/

Keep in mind the civic type R is NOT a car anyone in their right mind would daily drive


Lap time
7:50 2016 Honda Civic Type R Benchmark
7:50 BMW M3 CSL Tied
7:50 2009 Porsche 911 Carerra S Tied
7:52 Lamborghini Gallardo LP 560-4 Beat!
7:54 Mercedes CLK DTM AMG Beat!
7:54 Nissan GT-R Beat!
7:54 997 Porsche 911 Turbo Beat!
7:54 (.36) Renault Megane RS 275 Trophy-R Beat!
7:55 Caterham R500 Superlight Beat!
7:55 Ferrari F430 F1 Beat!
7:56 C5 Corvette Z06 Beat!
7:56 996 generation Porsche 911 Turbo Beat!
7:56 Porsche Panamera Turbo Beat!

http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2...t-around-the-n

[3tekcorps]

Originally Posted by ThugzZ BunnY

It's funny seeing all the comments bashing fwd. I was just at global time attack in road Atlanta and there was an eg hatchback civic shitting on everything in its class (including two gtr's). The fastest cars in C class and the B class were both civics. A class was an sti. RWD is not King anymore.

I'm guessing C and B class penalize the crap out of actual sports cars then. FWD blows!

[CRtoE92]

That type R gets my pick
Seriously ill take that car over any of those any time of my life time before my liver goes bad

[ThugzZ BunnY]

Originally Posted by 3tekcorps

I'm guessing C and B class penalize the crap out of actual sports cars then. FWD blows!

Tell that to the guys driving the gtr's, and m3's that couldn't keep up. It's cool to be a fan but it's not cool to be ignorant. Fwd cars can be fast.

[the_phew]

Yeah, modern LSDs/torque vectoring/electronic wizardry negate most of FWD's drawbacks in a track setting. Don't forget that power/weight is the biggest part of the equation, and transverse FF layouts are inherently lighter than FR layouts.

Much like a RR Porsche reaps advantages from having its engine right on top/behind the drive wheels, so too does a FF car. Physics isn't on your side when accelerating or braking, but if the layout enables a ~10% weight savings, then it partially or nearly negates that disadvantage.

Imagine the beating Civic Type R would deliver to the M2/3/4 on the track if it was offered w/ a DCT. To be fair though, the Type R is set up more like a BMW GTS car; a dedicated track machine that you don't want to daily drive.

[3tekcorps]

Originally Posted by ThugzZ BunnY

Tell that to the guys driving the gtr's, and m3's that couldn't keep up. It's cool to be a fan but it's not cool to be ignorant. Fwd cars can be fast.

It's an inferior design from a performance driving standpoint. It's just physics and has nothing to do with my opinion. Sure you can make them fast, but a car with the same specs (all other things equal) but ideal engine location will always be faster.

[ThugzZ BunnY]

Originally Posted by 3tekcorps

It's an inferior design from a performance driving standpoint. It's just physics and has nothing to do with my opinion. Sure you can make them fast, but a car with the same specs (all other things equal) but ideal engine location will always be faster.

Cool story. I still watched two fwd cars smoke every car that was in the same class as them. Gtr's, m3's, supras, miatas, s2000, evos, and Z cars. The point I'm trying to make is fwd cars can be just as fast.

[the_phew]

Originally Posted by 3tekcorps

It's an inferior design from a performance driving standpoint. It's just physics and has nothing to do with my opinion. Sure you can make them fast, but a car with the same specs (all other things equal) but ideal engine location will always be faster.

BMW's FR layout isn't ideal either; rear amidship (Cayman, most supercars) is ideal from a physics perspective.

[Powaup]

Originally Posted by CRtoE92

That type R gets my pick
Seriously ill take that car over any of those any time of my life time before my liver goes bad

saw one this weekend in So Cal was it yours?

[technik330]

Originally Posted by the_phew

To be fair though, the Type R is set up more like a BMW GTS car; a dedicated track machine that you don't want to daily drive.

Friendly heads up: the CTR has been in Japan for about two decades and is 100% daily drivable.

I used to work at a Honda shop, in high school, and we sold OEM CTR parts (yes, suspension included) and it's not nearly as bad as you imagine. If anything, it's only improved with each generation and it's far from the 'harsh' you're assuming it to be.

It's not a dedicated track car and it's not a BMW, but it's a street car with track capability - right out of the box.

The CTR will hopefully be making its way to the US, most likely in a year, and it'll be fun to see what Hondata can pull out of it with a flash tune.

FWD is only a fail to people who can't drive well, this video is testament to that. The CTR was the most handicapped car of the lot and is still right there with the competition. Call it 'tech' that's saving the CTR, but I'd call it ignorance to write off FWD as a fail.

[3tekcorps]

Originally Posted by the_phew

BMW's FR layout isn't ideal either; rear amidship (Cayman, most supercars) is ideal from a physics perspective.

I concur. It's nice to have a usable back seat and trunk though, so I compromised this time. The front feels a bit heavy when pushed on the M2 compared to Mid/Rear engine cars I've had in the past. It's a great car overall.

It's all address here:

https://books.google.com/books?id=1X...0drive&f=false

[technik330]

Originally Posted by Powaup

Keep in mind the civic type R is NOT a car anyone in their right mind would daily drive


Lap time
7:50 2016 Honda Civic Type R Benchmark
7:50 BMW M3 CSL Tied
7:50 2009 Porsche 911 Carerra S Tied
7:52 Lamborghini Gallardo LP 560-4 Beat!
7:54 Mercedes CLK DTM AMG Beat!
7:54 Nissan GT-R Beat!
7:54 997 Porsche 911 Turbo Beat!
7:54 (.36) Renault Megane RS 275 Trophy-R Beat!
7:55 Caterham R500 Superlight Beat!
7:55 Ferrari F430 F1 Beat!
7:56 C5 Corvette Z06 Beat!
7:56 996 generation Porsche 911 Turbo Beat!
7:56 Porsche Panamera Turbo Beat!

http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2...t-around-the-n

I'd really like to know, genuinely, how anyone knows that the CTR isn't DD friendly?

It's like everyone wants a track capable car, for cheap, that makes them feel like their ass is in pudding.

[DirkH]

No inside cam shots while driving the M2...
I bet he had a smile on his face that made his serious cheecks hurt

[CRtoE92]

Originally Posted by Powaup

saw one this weekend in So Cal was it yours?

You saw a type R in so cal? Thought it was not released yet or it will even be although Honda said they will bring it finally to US?

I have a MW M4 if thats what you saw