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      12-21-2018, 04:31 PM   #45
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I see the pin for the quick pad swap but I'm assuming you still need a small C-clamp on deck to push back in the pistons, as any typical brake set up?

Or is a comparable tool included or recommend?
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      12-21-2018, 07:32 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
I see the pin for the quick pad swap but I'm assuming you still need a small C-clamp on deck to push back in the pistons, as any typical brake set up?

Or is a comparable tool included or recommend?
Although I don't have these I'll take an educated guess...

You're probably not removing the caliper, so you'd just push the pistons back with a prybar-like tool. I have a piece of nylon bar I use for this exact reason.
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      12-22-2018, 12:13 AM   #47
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Yeah use old pad and pry against it.

Since you all already had the 2NH caliper (brembo) off of the car - the pictures looks like the pistons are stainless? Can you verify that?
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      12-23-2018, 02:52 AM   #48
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As an F80 owner and just receding through this thread, I’d just like to say how refreshing it to see a vendor go into so much detail and answer all questions so throughly......

Brilliant service and product Essex!

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      12-24-2018, 05:19 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
Do these have any compromises as far as street use goes? Also, is the brake bias similar enough to stock that you could replace the front setup only?

Edit: never mind on the front only, I see the site mentions that you can do that.
These are a waste for the street. AP Essex brake kits are for the track.
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      12-24-2018, 09:01 PM   #50
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These are a waste for the street.
You don't think you'd feel 40 lbs less unsprung weight?
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      12-24-2018, 11:20 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcvaughan View Post
These are a waste for the street. AP Essex brake kits are for the track.
Do you swap your calipers and rotors when you drive to the track? This is an M2, not a stripped out track-only car. No one would choose a new M2 as a track only car.
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      12-25-2018, 01:36 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcvaughan View Post
These are a waste for the street. AP Essex brake kits are for the track.
Do you swap your calipers and rotors when you drive to the track? This is an M2, not a stripped out track-only car. No one would choose a new M2 as a track only car.
No you don't swap your calipers or rotors. They are a waste for street meaning no need to spend this much for a BBK if you are only gonna use them on the street. It's simply an overkill just for street driving. You usually end up having a set of street and track pads. Just swap the pads before and after each track day if it's a dual purpose car (and it is in my case).
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      12-25-2018, 09:34 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cntzl View Post
No you don't swap your calipers or rotors. They are a waste for street meaning no need to spend this much for a BBK if you are only gonna use them on the street. It's simply an overkill just for street driving. You usually end up having a set of street and track pads. Just swap the pads before and after each track day if it's a dual purpose car (and it is in my case).
It was sarcasm . Since this is a dual purpose car I think asking how they work on the street is perfectly valid.
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      12-25-2018, 10:28 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by cntzl View Post
No you don't swap your calipers or rotors. They are a waste for street meaning no need to spend this much for a BBK if you are only gonna use them on the street. It's simply an overkill just for street driving. You usually end up having a set of street and track pads. Just swap the pads before and after each track day if it's a dual purpose car (and it is in my case).
It was sarcasm . Since this is a dual purpose car I think asking how they work on the street is perfectly valid.
Lol my bad then. Probably shouldn't open the Bimmerpost app when I'm not sober
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      12-25-2018, 10:41 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jritt@essex View Post

those are all championships, and there are many others.

I didn't know AP were involved in F1, can you enlighten me some more? I didn't watch much of this season just gone but thought I saw a few Brembo callipers. Do some teams choose AP and are you involved in the development of F1 brakes too?
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      12-25-2018, 11:51 AM   #56
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I took a closer look at the AP set up.. It's a quality built and their durability claim seems to check out..

For instance, a standard mono-block OEM caliper has a rubber piston seal, there is no way around that.. On high stressed/temperature applications, like the track, that rubber seal could possible melt like S'mores..

The AP set up doesn't utilize a rubber seals for its pistons; that itself allows for more guarantees longevity, regardless of how much temperature it's caliper was possible exposed to..

Small details might get overlooked, so you have to weigh in if these improvement meets your needs.. But dismissing its purpose outright is strait up "ignant"
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      12-26-2018, 06:49 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
I see the pin for the quick pad swap but I'm assuming you still need a small C-clamp on deck to push back in the pistons, as any typical brake set up?

Or is a comparable tool included or recommend?
Yes, the pistons still need to be pushed back into the bores. As noted, some people use old pad backing plates, others use a piece of soft wood, etc. Regardless, your best bet when doing so is always to cover whatever you're using with a rag/towel. If you gouge up the sides and edges of the pistons with something hard, you run the risk of them damaging your internal caliper seals when the pistons are pushed back into the bores.

Quote:
I took a closer look at the AP set up.. It's a quality built and their durability claim seems to check out..

For instance, a standard mono-block OEM caliper has a rubber piston seal, there is no way around that.. On high stressed/temperature applications, like the track, that rubber seal could possible melt like S'mores..

The AP set up doesn't utilize a rubber seals for its pistons; that itself allows for more guarantees longevity, regardless of how much temperature it's caliper was possible exposed to..
Just to be clear, there are internal piston seals and there are dust boots. Internal piston seals are inside the piston bores. They keep the fluid from escaping the caliper around the side of the pistons. They look like the pic below.


From our website:

We are often asked by potential customers if the calipers in our kits require frequent maintenance and rebuilding because the pistons don't have dust boots. We are perpetually shocked by this question because it makes no intuitive sense. If you have a product that is specifically designed to handle the extraordinary high-heat conditions of track use, why would it require more maintenance when used under those conditions vs. brake components that were designed to cruise around on the streets at low speed and temperature?

Many people confuse piston seals with dust boots. All calipers have seals. They're the little rubbery rings inside the piston bores (see pic below). If a caliper didn't have a seal, your brake fluid would leak out around the pistons! OEM caliper seals aren’t designed to handle constant trips to several hundred degrees without becoming brittle and leaking. Our calipers use special high-temp seals designed for track use. They are the exact same high temperature seals used in NASCAR Sprint Cup, ALMS, DTM, etc. That means they are less likely to get brittle and wear out when used under high-heat track conditions, and they require far LESS frequent replacement and servicing.

Most aftermarket calipers are designed for year round road use, and as such come with a bellows style external dust boot like the ones shown below. The rubber boot stretches as the piston extends, and its objective is to keep contaminants out of the piston bore. It's a nice concept, but we've seen customers burn those up in a single 20 minute track session! Once that happens, you're simply driving around with some tattered, burnt rubber bits attached to your pistons. At that point they're providing zero benefits to you. If you're going to instantly destroy them when you go to the track, why worry about having them in the first place? We skip making that mess for you by eliminating them from our design.

Here are what OEM dust boots look like:

Pre-track use


After a good track beating


Here's another...This one is off a Camaro 1LE and this one had aftermarket dust boots on it.



Here's a little more info on how the seals work, and how they interact with the anti-knockback springs in our AP Racing kits:

As you're driving the suspension is constantly compressing, the disc is moving around laterally, and the pads are being pushed slightly away from the disc. Think of the seals in the caliper as a spring or hinge attached to the side of the piston, rather than just a ring through which the piston slides. In an AP Racing competition caliper, the groove in which the seal resides isn't a square cut groove.It has angles. When the pistons slide in or out there is friction between the outer piston wall and the seal, and the seal distorts a bit as shown in the illustration below.
A caliper piston sliding out to the left would distort the seal in this manner (the slashes are the seals on either side of the piston):

/
---
---
\

As the piston slides back in to the right, the seal does this:
\
---
---
/

There is a certain amount of tension or friction that needs to be overcome before the piston actually starts moving through the seal ring. That tension/friction keeps the piston from dragging on the disc once the pistons are pushed back into the bores by the disc/suspension movement.

When AKB springs are added, a little more force is required to push the pistons back into their bores than would be required without them. After the spring is compressed, it unloads and pushes the piston back to 'neutral.'

With the proper seal and spring the goal is to keep the piston in the 'neutral' position, not pressed against the disc. The piston is still able to slide freely in either direction, but a bit of friction or tension needs to be overcome initially to get it moving in either direction. The seal offers that first bit of friction to limit movement, and then the spring provides additional resistance. The end result is that the properly designed AP Racing calipers won't drag or create additional or unnecessary wear.
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      12-26-2018, 07:09 AM   #58
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Quote:
I didn't know AP were involved in F1, can you enlighten me some more? I didn't watch much of this season just gone but thought I saw a few Brembo callipers.
I'd have to check and see which F1 teams were running AP this season, but yes, they've been involved in F1 for a very long time. By the end of 2017, AP Racing had amassed over 800 victories in F1 on their brake and clutch products:
https://www.apracing.com/blog/post.aspx?Page=213

We had an AP Racing F1 caliper in our booth this year, and it was gorgeous! It has titanium pistons, dry-break bleed screws, and was insanely light. Here are a few pics:




Here is their Formula 1 clutch:



Quote:
Do some teams choose AP and are you involved in the development of F1 brakes too?
[/QUOTE]
Essex is not involved with development for F1, but we do development work in other major pro series. We are in Charlotte, NC, which is the home of NASCAR. We have staff that works directly with the NASCAR teams, and we provide a wide array of components to them (including some of our own design). We also work with IMSA teams, and do a lot of service work for IndyCar teams (clutch control unit rebuilds, clutch rebuilds, Ohlins shock rebuilds). Below is a NASCAR Cup Radi-CAL caliper...very similar in overall design premise to an F1 caliper, except much larger!



We just posted some pics of an IndyCar clutch rebuild on our Instagram page the other day...you should see how tiny they are! :O
https://www.instagram.com/essex_apracing/
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      03-09-2021, 03:08 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jritt@essex View Post
I'd have to check and see which F1 teams were running AP this season, but yes, they've been involved in F1 for a very long time. By the end of 2017, AP Racing had amassed over 800 victories in F1 on their brake and clutch products:
https://www.apracing.com/blog/post.aspx?Page=213

We had an AP Racing F1 caliper in our booth this year, and it was gorgeous! It has titanium pistons, dry-break bleed screws, and was insanely light. Here are a few pics:




Here is their Formula 1 clutch:


Essex is not involved with development for F1, but we do development work in other major pro series. We are in Charlotte, NC, which is the home of NASCAR. We have staff that works directly with the NASCAR teams, and we provide a wide array of components to them (including some of our own design). We also work with IMSA teams, and do a lot of service work for IndyCar teams (clutch control unit rebuilds, clutch rebuilds, Ohlins shock rebuilds). Below is a NASCAR Cup Radi-CAL caliper...very similar in overall design premise to an F1 caliper, except much larger!



We just posted some pics of an IndyCar clutch rebuild on our Instagram page the other day...you should see how tiny they are! :O
https://www.instagram.com/essex_apracing/[/QUOTE]

jritt@essex I have some CP9668 calipers on the front of my M2C and plan to buy some Apex FL-5 18*9.5 ET28 wheels. Do you know if these fit without spacers on the M2/3/4?

Thanks!
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      03-09-2021, 09:53 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Megator View Post
jritt@essex I have some CP9668 calipers on the front of my M2C and plan to buy some Apex FL-5 18*9.5 ET28 wheels. Do you know if these fit without spacers on the M2/3/4?

Thanks!
I just helped a friend install the Essex 9668 kit on his M2. He also has the same Apex FL5 wheels. The Apex wheels cleared the calipers fine, but he needed some thin spacers for the OEM 437M wheels.
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      03-09-2021, 12:50 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Megator View Post

jritt@essex I have some CP9668 calipers on the front of my M2C and plan to buy some Apex FL-5 18*9.5 ET28 wheels. Do you know if these fit without spacers on the M2/3/4?

Thanks!
Do you have our complete AP Racing by Essex CP9668/372mm brake kit (part#13.01.10046), or do you have the AP CP9668 mated to some other brackets, discs, etc. ?

I know that the Apex FL-5 18x9.0 +30 wheels require a 5mm spacer for our CP9668/372mm system to clear. I'd have to check with Apex on the 9.5"+28 version (which I can do if you'd like).

Also, Essex is now an authorized Apex wheel dealer, so please let us know if you need a quote on a set...we'd appreciate your continued business.
Thanks!
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      03-09-2021, 12:52 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bentom2 View Post
I just helped a friend install the Essex 9668 kit on his M2. He also has the same Apex FL5 wheels. The Apex wheels cleared the calipers fine, but he needed some thin spacers for the OEM 437M wheels.
Thanks for the additional input. Here's our current list of verified wheel fitments for our wider CP9668 caliper kit (our narrower CP9660 kit will fit more wheels without a spacer, but at the sacrifice of some pad thickness):

Confirmed wheels that fit without a spacer:

Apex EC7 18x9.5 +22
Apex EC7 18x10 +33
BC Forged RS43 Monobloc 18x10 +15
BC Forged RS43 Monobloc 18x10 +25
Forgeline GSR1 19x9.5 +25
Klassen M52R 18x9.5 ET +20 5x120 72.56CB

Confirmed wheels that fit with a spacer:

OEM 437M 19x9 +29, with a 5mm spacer
Apex FL-5 18x9 +30, with a 5mm spacer
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      03-10-2021, 07:46 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bentom2 View Post
I just helped a friend install the Essex 9668 kit on his M2. He also has the same Apex FL5 wheels. The Apex wheels cleared the calipers fine, but he needed some thin spacers for the OEM 437M wheels.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jritt@essex View Post
Do you have our complete AP Racing by Essex CP9668/372mm brake kit (part#13.01.10046), or do you have the AP CP9668 mated to some other brackets, discs, etc. ?

I know that the Apex FL-5 18x9.0 +30 wheels require a 5mm spacer for our CP9668/372mm system to clear. I'd have to check with Apex on the 9.5"+28 version (which I can do if you'd like).

Also, Essex is now an authorized Apex wheel dealer, so please let us know if you need a quote on a set...we'd appreciate your continued business.
Thanks!

Thanks guys! Sadly not the Essex kit. I really appreciate your guys out reach to the community and education initiatives but being in the EU would have killed me on shipping and import duties. The discs are the same dimensions so I am guessing it will clear!
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      03-10-2021, 08:15 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Megator View Post
Thanks guys! Sadly not the Essex kit. I really appreciate your guys out reach to the community and education initiatives but being in the EU would have killed me on shipping and import duties. The discs are the same dimensions so I am guessing it will clear!
No worries and we understand. I wouldn't be so sure on the discs however. The discs we use in our system are proprietary to Essex. AP Racing manufacturers them to our specifications, and they are only available through Essex. The disc hat offset is going to determine where the caliper sits on the discs. It's unfortunately not a safe assumption that if our Essex kit clears, another kit using the same caliper will clear. I just wanted you to be aware of that. Sorry we can't offer more assistance, and thanks for the kind words.
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