[Pilot-Z]

Still waiting for the report of what happened y'all. Didn't get a call back today from the tech...

[GerardzM]

Originally Posted by Thescout13

They don't. And even if they did, motors last a few races, 1 season tops before needing to be rebuilt or replaced.

I do understand that, but I should have probably just been more direct.

Why don't/didn't they race them? I guess I was just being hopeful that they'd have a solution for anyone that goes through this.

I mean they do run those N55s.

We may never know the root cause

Call them first thing tomorrow morning OP. Best of Luck!

[chris719]

Originally Posted by AlpsRider

You need to read more clearly. This is what I said.

"The N55 has the same part. That means all of the M235i and OG M2s have the same potential issue. Many of the M3/M4s that had the problem we're modded. Many of them were DCTs with modded software ie. high power with a jerky tranny."

Which is not what you claimed I said.

Same part is not the same potential issue if the root cause is actually something else, like vibration, or even torque output.

The bottom line is that the N55 basically never spins stock and the S55 does. Saying the M235i and M2 are susceptible to this just like the S55 is disingenuous given the number of N55s produced.

The semantics don’t matter, the truth is S55 can spin it stock. When it spins stock it seems to do it early in the life of the engine and DCT is a risk factor. Anyone looking at M2C should note this and buy one anyway.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by GerardzM

I do understand that, but I should have probably just been more direct.

Why don't/didn't they race them? I guess I was just being hopeful that they'd have a solution for anyone that goes through this.

I mean they do run those N55s.

We may never know the root cause

Call them first thing tomorrow morning OP. Best of Luck!

I don’t know why they don’t race them, but S engines always have some fatal flaw. I don’t know about the E30 but everything after that starts with an S is not exactly Toyota reliability. It just comes with the territory - great engines with sub-par reliability. This isn’t as bad as the S65/S85 debacle at least.

N55 will probably end up with failure related to bearings and oil starvation in the hands of a race team.

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by chris719

I don't know why they don't race them, but S engines always have some fatal flaw. I don't know about the E30 but everything after that starts with an S is not exactly Toyota reliability. It just comes with the territory - great engines with sub-par reliability. This isn't as bad as the S65/S85 debacle at least.

N55 will probably end up with failure related to bearings and oil starvation in the hands of a race team.

So true..

Since I known of BMW, they were always recognized for making sporty, luxury vehicles but reliability has never been their strong suit, in comparison to Toyota..

Toyota's reliability is so renown that they named their spin-off vehicle 'Scion' meaning descendant of royalty, as a marketing term to connect it to Toyota's dependability.

What confuses me is why an auto manufacture like BMW, after so many years of experience, can't build a powerful and reliable motor as Toyota. I guess that's a question only BMW engineers could answer

As far is the crank issue goes, it seems like a design flaw, in which the engineer's oversight did not accurately account for "X" in relation to the potential higher power output of the S55..

[omasou]

Originally Posted by ChrisK

This is interesting.

The hub, washer and sprocket parts at the center of the S55 failure are literally used on every BMW. Could the bolt torque be the failure point?

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...97#11237574827

That was my theory that the bolt wasn't properly torqued. Which means that people installing the "keyed fix" could introduce the problem if the bolt isn't properly torqued.

I mean if BMW is having a very small set of failures in a controlled engine building environment. I could imagine a failure from a shop installed bolt. A keyed hub won't help if the bolt backs out.

[omasou]

Originally Posted by Poochie

So true..

Since I known of BMW, they were always recognized for making sporty, luxury vehicles but reliability has never been their strong suit, in comparison to Toyota..

Toyota's reliability is so renown that they named their spin-off vehicle 'Scion' meaning descendant of royalty, as a marketing term to connect it to Toyota's dependability.

What confuses me is why an auto manufacture like BMW, after so many years of experience, can't build a powerful and reliable motor as Toyota. I guess that's a question only BMW engineers could answer

As far is the crank issue goes, it seems like a design flaw, in which the engineer's oversight did not accurately account for "X" in relation to the potential higher power output of the S55..

Probably b/c it's easier to build a mind numbing mundane grocery getter versus a sports sedan.

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by omasou

Probably b/c it's easier to build a mind numbing mundane grocery getter versus a sports sedan.

Really? Their V8 naturally-aspirated GS-F is equivalent in power and performance to a M2C and is as reliable as a Corolla.

[omasou]

Originally Posted by Poochie

Really? Their V8 naturally-aspirated GS-F is equivalent in power and performance to a M2C and is as reliable as a Corolla.

I don't even know what that is and I'll never buy a V anything engine again. 2 valve cover gaskets, valley pans, etc. repairs are always 2X

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by omasou

I don't even know what that is .

It's made by Lexus (Toyota's Luxury Division).

Check this out:

[Robin_NL]

Originally Posted by Thescout13

They don't. And even if they did, motors last a few races, 1 season tops before needing to be rebuilt or replaced.

They don't?

https://www.bmw-motorsport.com/en/to...mw-m4-gt4.html

Edit, new footage:

Cheers
Robin

[Thescout13]

Originally Posted by Robin_NL

They don't?

https://www.bmw-motorsport.com/en/to...mw-m4-gt4.html

Edit, new footage:

Cheers
Robin

We have never gotten confirmation from BMW that the engine is identical. Don't you remember when the E92 version came out and all the marketing said it was the S65 and we later found out that it was actually a P65 and had beefed up internals and fixes to the issues the S65 was having? https://www.***********.com/content....coming-in-2017 with the bummer boost website.

And does BMW race these cars or are they customer only? I could be wrong, but it's not like this would be the first time BMW has fixed a production issue in its race car variant. I honestly forgot this car existed.

[Robin_NL]

Originally Posted by Thescout13

We have never gotten confirmation from BMW that the engine is identical.

https://www.bmw-motorsport.com/conte...7626520231.pdf

Scroll down to the middle of the PDF:

ENGINE states S55....

Cheers
Robin

[Thescout13]

Originally Posted by Robin_NL

https://www.bmw-motorsport.com/conte...7626520231.pdf

Scroll down to the middle of the PDF:

ENGINE states S55....

Cheers
Robin

Again.... that's exactly what they did with the e92, version. ENGINE stated S65, until we found out that internally they were calling it the P65 and when they used on their M4 DTM they finally called P65.....

Marketing is just that..... marketing. Like I said, it's not like this would be the first time BMW has fixed a production issue in its race car variant.

[Robin_NL]

Originally Posted by Thescout13

Again.... that's exactly what they did with the e92, version. ENGINE stated S65, until we found out that internally they were calling it the P65 and when they used on their M4 DTM they finally called P65.....

Marketing is just that..... marketing. Like I said, it's not like this would be the first time BMW has fixed a production issue in its race car variant.

No. This is the S55. Period. It's a GT4, not a DTM racer.


They race those cars overhere.
https://bmw-renova.nl/renova-motorsport




Cheers
Robin

[ChrisK]

Originally Posted by Pilot-Z

Still waiting for the report of what happened y'all. Didn't get a call back today from the tech...

We are here with you!

[Thescout13]

Originally Posted by Robin_NL

No. This is the S55. Period. It's a GT4, not a DTM racer.


They race those cars overhere.
https://bmw-renova.nl/renova-motorsport




Cheers
Robin

Eye roll. Okay man, it's like you literally didn't read a word I have wrote. I didn't say the GT4 was the DTM? Read man, it helps.

Also, just because it's called "S55" doesn't mean it's identical to the production engine and could have beefed up internals. It's cool man, large manufacturers don't cover up failures - I like that fantasy world.

I'm just goin to let you have this one, because having to rewrite my point step by step again because you didn't read is just an enormous waste of time. In summary, race spec engines under a specific code are not identical to production spec engines of the same code.

[Robin_NL]

Originally Posted by Thescout13

Eye roll. Okay man, it's like you literally didn't read a word I have wrote. I didn't say the GT4 was the DTM? Read man, it helps.

Also, just because it's called "S55" doesn't mean it's identical to the production engine and could have beefed up internals. It's cool man, large manufacturers don't cover up failures - I like that fantasy world.

I'm just goin to let you have this one, because having to rewrite my point step by step again because you didn't read is just an enormous waste of time. In summary, race spec engines under a specific code are not identical to production spec engines of the same code.

GT4 regulations say the engine must be the stock engine.

But whatever....







Cheers
Robin

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by Robin_NL

GT4 regulations say the engine must be the stock engine.

I get both you guy's POV but judging by the amount of aftermarket parts attached to this GT4, It's not that farfetched that maybe they did indeed strengthen the S55 known Achilles Heel; the crank hub but left everything else stock for racing homologation.

The aftermarket is now flooded with aftermarket crank hub options, as below..

But don't quote me on that..

[M-Pilot]

M4 GT4 is a race car and has been used by several race teams around the world. It has the same S55 as the road car meaning same crank hub design. RealOEM has all details for all those who are interested:

https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...diagId=11_6976

Edit: Here's another link..

https://bimmercat.com/bmw/EN/search/...T4/USA/11_6976

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by GerardzM

I do understand that, but I should have probably just been more direct.

Why don't/didn't they race them? I guess I was just being hopeful that they'd have a solution for anyone that goes through this.

I mean they do run those N55s.

The S55 is raced quite extensively via the M4 GT4 program throughout the year in many series around the world.

https://www.bmw-motorsport.com/en/to...mw-m4-gt4.html

I have talked to a couple different team mechanics at COTA, casually mentioned the crank hub issue. They didn't seem to think anything of it. One of them had never heard about it. They did rave about the car, said the drivers absolutely love it.

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by Thescout13

We have never gotten confirmation from BMW that the engine is identical. Don't you remember when the E92 version came out and all the marketing said it was the S65 and we later found out that it was actually a P65 and had beefed up internals and fixes to the issues the S65 was having? https://www.***********.com/content....coming-in-2017 with the bummer boost website.

And does BMW race these cars or are they customer only? I could be wrong, but it's not like this would be the first time BMW has fixed a production issue in its race car variant. I honestly forgot this car existed.

Originally Posted by Robin_NL

https://www.bmw-motorsport.com/conte...7626520231.pdf

Scroll down to the middle of the PDF:

ENGINE states S55....

Cheers
Robin

Originally Posted by Thescout13

Again.... that's exactly what they did with the e92, version. ENGINE stated S65, until we found out that internally they were calling it the P65 and when they used on their M4 DTM they finally called P65.....

Marketing is just that..... marketing. Like I said, it's not like this would be the first time BMW has fixed a production issue in its race car variant.

You two are referring to different race series/classes with different regulations.

The P65 was used in the GTLM/ALMS/Tudor racecars. DTM did use a P designated motor as well.

The M3 GT4 on the other hand used an S65. Same 414hp output. GT4 regulations are much more regulated towards using street car components. The M4 GT4 is under the same regulations, using a S55.


E92 M3 GT4 (S65)


F82 M4 GT4 (S55)