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M2 Technical Topics > S55 Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust / Bolt-ons / Tuning > S55 central lock screw „issue“

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      06-04-2019, 11:30 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatWhiteM2 View Post
Wise words, the only company that touch my car mechanically. I have the full fix, all done by them.
I see they have the cam blocks on and everything ready but what did they attach to the hub there? That's not retaining the bolt, is it a special tool?
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      06-04-2019, 03:50 PM   #24
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That is the central bolt in the middle.

The hub is behind the special tool / plate.
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      06-04-2019, 04:17 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doughboy View Post
That is the central bolt in the middle.

The hub is behind the special tool / plate.
Yeah I recognized the bolt and hub, just not the special tool
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      06-05-2019, 02:39 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Proctor750 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by doughboy View Post
That is the central bolt in the middle.

The hub is behind the special tool / plate.
Yeah I recognized the bolt and hub, just not the special tool
Litchfield's own tool.
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      06-05-2019, 02:10 PM   #27
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Wish we had access here in the Southeast USA of such a cheap fix. Seems an independent Euro specialist would try and offer this to ease our mind. Sure seems to beat the 16-20 hours labor of some fixes.
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      06-05-2019, 02:19 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatWhiteM2 View Post
Litchfield's own tool.
Yes it looks "unique" ...
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      06-05-2019, 02:21 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trapperj View Post
Wish we had access here in the Southeast USA of such a cheap fix. Seems an independent Euro specialist would try and offer this to ease our mind. Sure seems to beat the 16-20 hours labor of some fixes.
A bolt capture is relatively straightforward to fit. Anyone who could change the pulley could do it.

4 hours or so.

Just who you trust really.
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      06-05-2019, 04:25 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trapperj View Post
Wish we had access here in the Southeast USA of such a cheap fix. Seems an independent Euro specialist would try and offer this to ease our mind. Sure seems to beat the 16-20 hours labor of some fixes.
If you want an obsessive compulsive detail oriented BMW tech near you I would try out Zach Ketring at Zakspeed.us up in Louisville, KY. He mainly does race prep (used to crew with bimmerworld) and custom fab but does do normal maintenance and OEM + work like fitting a bolt capture. Arguably one of the best BMW mechanics in the country.

Since Litchfield won't sell them you would have to go to Vargas or someone else to get one in hand.

Again it only stops the bolt backing out and not the friction disc from slipping etc. But I suppose it's better than nothing.
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      06-05-2019, 04:53 PM   #31
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Seems there’s been a steady flow of new ideas to prevent a SCH from happening.
Some good, some not so good. Maybe there’s something better right around the corner.
One things for sure. Sitting on your hands with your fingers crossed is not a solution.
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      06-06-2019, 09:06 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trapperj View Post
Seems there’s been a steady flow of new ideas to prevent a SCH from happening.
Some good, some not so good. Maybe there’s something better right around the corner.
One things for sure. Sitting on your hands with your fingers crossed is not a solution.
That's why I want to put some track miles on the car before I ever tune it (tune sitting on counter top collecting dust at the moment). I would beware of any solution that uses tangs or the gear has been drilled into... 1 piece seems to be the ticket but I have yet to read about anyone with only the bolt capture have a failure so seems like a good first step.
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      06-24-2019, 12:52 PM   #33
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I mentioned the below in another thread but figured this is ideal place.

Seems Litchfield will sell the Crank Bolt Capture to overseas clients.

We actually have a competent shop that can install it in GTA Canada (another GTR specialist) but I believe Litchfield blog says the CBC even requires a special tool to install.

Furthermore, the LF rep I was in discussion with doesn't seem to have any instructions to offer. I was hoping they have torque specs at very least.

Can someone local in UK find out additional details for us. Wish Ian was accessible on this forum.
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      06-24-2019, 02:09 PM   #34
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I'm at Litchfield on Wednesday having the CBC fitted

I can try to get some details for you...
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      06-24-2019, 05:39 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doughboy View Post
I'm at Litchfield on Wednesday having the CBC fitted

I can try to get some details for you...
And pictures
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      06-26-2019, 08:57 AM   #36
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All done Nice outfit they have there. GTR city!

Took them 3 hours to fit. I went into their Alladins Cave afterwards (parts store ) to look at the CBC and it looks pretty much as you'd expect.

Machined from a lightweight billet alloy of some kind. Anodized black. (It's weight was imperceptible in my hand). But enclosed over the original main bolt head with another hex head 17mm. So you can still turn the crank with a spanner if you need to for any maintenance etc which is a good idea.

They confirmed standard OE torque + angle for the 8 fixing bolts.

I'm happy now. Funny how these things have a mental placebo effect, spent the whole trip back gunning the car with the CS map on... I am invincible now!

Last edited by doughboy; 06-26-2019 at 09:03 AM..
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      06-26-2019, 11:53 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doughboy View Post
All done Nice outfit they have there. GTR city!

Took them 3 hours to fit. I went into their Alladins Cave afterwards (parts store ) to look at the CBC and it looks pretty much as you'd expect.

Machined from a lightweight billet alloy of some kind. Anodized black. (It's weight was imperceptible in my hand). But enclosed over the original main bolt head with another hex head 17mm. So you can still turn the crank with a spanner if you need to for any maintenance etc which is a good idea.

They confirmed standard OE torque + angle for the 8 fixing bolts.

I'm happy now. Funny how these things have a mental placebo effect, spent the whole trip back gunning the car with the CS map on... I am invincible now!
Thank you so much.

Also can you advise the cost for labor for the 3 hours excluding VAT.
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      06-26-2019, 01:45 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeDarko View Post
Thank you so much.

Also can you advise the cost for labor for the 3 hours excluding VAT.
They offer the whole thing for £475 inc vat all in, fixed price, so I went for it thinking 4 hours or so. That £475 is deductable from a full hub fix if you have a slip in 12 months.

Their labour is £75/hour + vat so they've priced it at 4 hours I reckon.

I think they've honed their technique for getting it done without draining coolant and removing hoses as they did previously

Also I watched the guy do it from the waiting room window, 9am - midday very methodical & professional, no chatting and standing about, he never stopped once, so I'm happy with that.
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      06-26-2019, 02:41 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doughboy View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeDarko View Post
Thank you so much.

Also can you advise the cost for labor for the 3 hours excluding VAT.
They offer the whole thing for £475 inc vat all in, fixed price, so I went for it thinking 4 hours or so. That £475 is deductable from a full hub fix if you have a slip in 12 months.

Their labour is £75/hour + vat so they've priced it at 4 hours I reckon.

I think they've honed their technique for getting it done without draining coolant and removing hoses as they did previously

Also I watched the guy do it from the waiting room window, 9am - midday very methodical & professional, no chatting and standing about, he never stopped once, so I'm happy with that.
Impressive shop! Been reading about them for years from the other side of the ocean.

It's rare to find a shop over here that builds their own tools/products for various vehicles and exceeds expectations while charging fair prices.
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      06-26-2019, 07:08 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doughboy View Post
But enclosed over the original main bolt head with another hex head 17mm. So you can still turn the crank with a spanner if you need to for any maintenance etc which is a good
Nice to see they addressed this as this was one of the downfalls I mentioned about other options a while ago. IMO this makes it worthwhile to purchase this one over the competitors.
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      06-28-2019, 02:43 AM   #41
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Yes in theory the timing could still slip with the bolt capture fitted. But as yet no one has reported a slip with a bolt capture fitted.. (fingers crossed)

From a mechanical stand point (and having discussed this with some very experienced mechanical engineers), looking at likely friction levels, it's not really a bolt capture it's a hub capture if you get my drift.

The centre bolt itself is massively tight with huge friction levels on its threads inside the crank end, so the capture really secures the hub to the bolt rather than the other way round.

The main bolt needs way over 600nm to remove it and as very little mass, so it's going nowhere easily. I never bought the idea of the centre bolt backing out personally. Even if some strange torsional vibrations cause the hub and bolt to vibrate at different frequencies and a slip occur then this capture will help to prevent that.

The hub assembly by comparison is a heavy old lump of rotating damper / cam drive / oil drive / belt drive which will be trying to move separately to the crank the whole time, relying only on small friction discs to hold it in place.

By locking the hub to the bolt you are securing the weaker point (low surface area hub & timing gear friction rings) to a stronger point (main bolt with large thread friction area).

That's my theory anyway

Last edited by doughboy; 06-28-2019 at 02:58 AM..
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      06-29-2019, 03:47 AM   #42
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I wish there was a similar option locally to me - very reasonable price for something that makes sense to me.
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      07-05-2019, 01:24 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doughboy View Post
Yes in theory the timing could still slip with the bolt capture fitted. But as yet no one has reported a slip with a bolt capture fitted.. (fingers crossed)

From a mechanical stand point (and having discussed this with some very experienced mechanical engineers), looking at likely friction levels, it's not really a bolt capture it's a hub capture if you get my drift.

The centre bolt itself is massively tight with huge friction levels on its threads inside the crank end, so the capture really secures the hub to the bolt rather than the other way round.

The main bolt needs way over 600nm to remove it and as very little mass, so it's going nowhere easily. I never bought the idea of the centre bolt backing out personally. Even if some strange torsional vibrations cause the hub and bolt to vibrate at different frequencies and a slip occur then this capture will help to prevent that.

The hub assembly by comparison is a heavy old lump of rotating damper / cam drive / oil drive / belt drive which will be trying to move separately to the crank the whole time, relying only on small friction discs to hold it in place.

By locking the hub to the bolt you are securing the weaker point (low surface area hub & timing gear friction rings) to a stronger point (main bolt with large thread friction area).

That's my theory anyway

Wow, i never thought of it that way but instantly it makes perfect sense!
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      07-17-2019, 08:04 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Proctor750 View Post
Wow, i never thought of it that way but instantly it makes perfect sense!
Yeah same! I just wonder why BMW did not do this from the factory, it must be cheaper than repairing a couple of S55 per 1000 units.

2 things I dont like

1) it stresses the threaded connection of the hub and you know move the failure point there.

2) the balance of the crankshaft fore to aft is messed up which could lead to stress cracks of the crankshaft and excessive bearing wear given enough time.

I am going to wait mine out as most spun hubs only seem to upset the timing and not result in blown engines.
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