[doug_999]

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I am amazed at how different these two cars are...

The first thing I always notice is how tall I'm sitting in the 1M. I don't like it, I like sitting IN my car, not ON it. It feels weird and is probably why I always miss the sunroof in the 1M and don't notice the lack thereof in the M2 (cause my head feels so close to the roof in the 1M).

The next thing I notice is the steering. Freaking wonderful in the 1M. The M2 is on its snow tires right now and they are over inflated by 3psi (pending the cold that ill hit here shortly). Therefore the M2 steering feels so over boosted and unnatural it is unreal. I need to let some pressure out - but even then, and even with the standard tires. the electric steering of the M2, is no fun compared to the 1M.

and then I clutch in... oh my, so wonderful, the engine does not rev unnaturally, GAWD I hate rev match! Soo nice not to have it - soo nice, that for a minute, I think, should I code it out of the M2 in spite of the drawbacks? (to be fair, based on a thread about how to shift a 6 speed manual, I'm not doing it right - or the way most people do it - I clutch in while slowing down). But I simply HATE that feature and immediately love the 1M for not having it.)

Then I go to make a call... but the damn iDrive has not paired my phone nor updated the phonebook. Not so with the M2 which almost immediate. I miss the fancy features of the M2 in terms of making a call quickly. I certainly don't miss the Apple Play (shut off day#1) and now Pandora and Spotify taking their time loading up when I plug into the M2. And while I still am THRILLED to have the iDrive in the 1M, the slowness of connecting hurts.

Of course, if I want to listen to music - say on my iPhone and shuffle a playlist, I can do that about 10x faster in the 1M than the M2. Why BMW makes it harder with each revision of iDrive to just play a playlist is beyond me. Heck, in fact, many times, I can't even get the M2 to play music on my iPhone!

Then I hit some of the Chicago area roads and wow - the 1M is so much more compliant. How/why did they make the M2 ride so bad compared to the 1M? I'm bouncing all day long in the M2, but the 1M just feels amazing - so perfect.

Finally I get home and I'm wondering, what was missing? Ahhh, the sound.... the M2 (with active sound) is so amazing - heck, even without it, it starts up so nice (neighborhood 16 year old said "I know every morning when you go to work - that car sounds so good when you start it")

I got home and thought - if BMW could combine the great features of both of these cars, we would have the most perfect BMW....

[champignon]

I love my 1M also, although I don't drive it nearly enough, especially since it is just one of several "summer cars" for me. I also love my 135is convertible, which is truly really special.

I test drove an M2 yesterday (see my post in the 1M forum) and could have traded my 135i coupe in on it, were we not $5K apart on the numbers, most of which was due to options on the M2 that I did not want and would not pay for (Executive package, sunroof, and a bunch of black grills and other overpriced "candy").

I believe we would have made a deal on a base model if I liked the color. Perhaps that will happen in the not too distant future.

[akkando]

Originally Posted by doug_999

I am amazed at how different these two cars are...

The first thing I always notice is how tall I'm sitting in the 1M. I don't like it, I like sitting IN my car, not ON it. It feels weird and is probably why I always miss the sunroof in the 1M and don't notice the lack thereof in the M2 (cause my head feels so close to the roof in the 1M).

The next thing I notice is the steering. Freaking wonderful in the 1M. The M2 is on its snow tires right now and they are over inflated by 3psi (pending the cold that ill hit here shortly). Therefore the M2 steering feels so over boosted and unnatural it is unreal. I need to let some pressure out - but even then, and even with the standard tires. the electric steering of the M2, is no fun compared to the 1M.

and then I clutch in... oh my, so wonderful, the engine does not rev unnaturally, GAWD I hate rev match! Soo nice not to have it - soo nice, that for a minute, I think, should I code it out of the M2 in spite of the drawbacks? (to be fair, based on a thread about how to shift a 6 speed manual, I'm not doing it right - or the way most people do it - I clutch in while slowing down). But I simply HATE that feature and immediately love the 1M for not having it.)

Then I go to make a call... but the damn iDrive has not paired my phone nor updated the phonebook. Not so with the M2 which almost immediate. I miss the fancy features of the M2 in terms of making a call quickly. I certainly don't miss the Apple Play (shut off day#1) and now Pandora and Spotify taking their time loading up when I plug into the M2. And while I still am THRILLED to have the iDrive in the 1M, the slowness of connecting hurts.

Of course, if I want to listen to music - say on my iPhone and shuffle a playlist, I can do that about 10x faster in the 1M than the M2. Why BMW makes it harder with each revision of iDrive to just play a playlist is beyond me. Heck, in fact, many times, I can't even get the M2 to play music on my iPhone!

Then I hit some of the Chicago area roads and wow - the 1M is so much more compliant. How/why did they make the M2 ride so bad compared to the 1M? I'm bouncing all day long in the M2, but the 1M just feels amazing - so perfect.

Finally I get home and I'm wondering, what was missing? Ahhh, the sound.... the M2 (with active sound) is so amazing - heck, even without it, it starts up so nice (neighborhood 16 year old said "I know every morning when you go to work - that car sounds so good when you start it")

I got home and thought - if BMW could combine the great features of both of these cars, we would have the most perfect BMW....

You could just set your music playlist to M2 sounds while you're in the 1M and you would be halfway there.

Or code out the rev match on the M2.

[TXSurfer]

Wow I have 0 problems with CarPlay and my Apple Music starts up effortlessly every time. It's been even better since I got my iPhone X. Good write up though.

[M3 Adjuster]

Interesting comments on the M2 ride quality. I kinda assumed it would be better overall!

Do you have the electric seats in your 1M? If so that explains your comments on feeling like sitting on top of vs sitting in.

The power seats in the 1M sit higher. There are many comments on the 1M forums that the manual buckets allow one to sit lower. It's a noticeable difference!

The manual seats , hydraulic steering is OMG amazing vs EPS , no auto rev match nannies and even the heft of the 6MT gearbox in the 1M are simply a joy to me.

If you can code out auto rev match in the M2 then go ahead and give it a try! It's easily toggled back!

[JetBlackE46]

Originally Posted by doug_999

I am amazed at how different these two cars are...

The first thing I always notice is how tall I'm sitting in the 1M. I don't like it, I like sitting IN my car, not ON it. It feels weird and is probably why I always miss the sunroof in the 1M and don't notice the lack thereof in the M2 (cause my head feels so close to the roof in the 1M).

The next thing I notice is the steering. Freaking wonderful in the 1M. The M2 is on its snow tires right now and they are over inflated by 3psi (pending the cold that ill hit here shortly). Therefore the M2 steering feels so over boosted and unnatural it is unreal. I need to let some pressure out - but even then, and even with the standard tires. the electric steering of the M2, is no fun compared to the 1M.

and then I clutch in... oh my, so wonderful, the engine does not rev unnaturally, GAWD I hate rev match! Soo nice not to have it - soo nice, that for a minute, I think, should I code it out of the M2 in spite of the drawbacks? (to be fair, based on a thread about how to shift a 6 speed manual, I'm not doing it right - or the way most people do it - I clutch in while slowing down). But I simply HATE that feature and immediately love the 1M for not having it.)

Then I go to make a call... but the damn iDrive has not paired my phone nor updated the phonebook. Not so with the M2 which almost immediate. I miss the fancy features of the M2 in terms of making a call quickly. I certainly don't miss the Apple Play (shut off day#1) and now Pandora and Spotify taking their time loading up when I plug into the M2. And while I still am THRILLED to have the iDrive in the 1M, the slowness of connecting hurts.

Of course, if I want to listen to music - say on my iPhone and shuffle a playlist, I can do that about 10x faster in the 1M than the M2. Why BMW makes it harder with each revision of iDrive to just play a playlist is beyond me. Heck, in fact, many times, I can't even get the M2 to play music on my iPhone!

Then I hit some of the Chicago area roads and wow - the 1M is so much more compliant. How/why did they make the M2 ride so bad compared to the 1M? I'm bouncing all day long in the M2, but the 1M just feels amazing - so perfect.

Finally I get home and I'm wondering, what was missing? Ahhh, the sound.... the M2 (with active sound) is so amazing - heck, even without it, it starts up so nice (neighborhood 16 year old said "I know every morning when you go to work - that car sounds so good when you start it")

I got home and thought - if BMW could combine the great features of both of these cars, we would have the most perfect BMW....

You're a lucky guy to have both!

[pruettfan]

Doug, I think BMW has essentially combined the best of both in the M2 but times have changed and what they did for a limited production car 6 years ago is very different from what they can do for a regular production car these days. Steering is the best example, because of our lovely EPA and with Euros obsession with fuel economy and environmental requirements (not saying they are not important), it is very tough to have a car with hydraulic power steering these days and certainly BMW could not create a system just for the M2. The electric power steering on the M2 is actually great compared to the 3-4 series but its super difficult to get EPS to work like a great hydraulic system.

Your one of the few who has the privilege of having both to drive but with that privilege comes the burden of comparison. Probably best to enjoy each for their attributes and flaws rather than wishing for something better. In a few years we will only be able to select autonomous crap to haul us around so we should enjoy this golden age while we can.

[nachob]

Originally Posted by doug_999

I am amazed at how different these two cars are...

The first thing I always notice is how tall I'm sitting in the 1M. I don't like it, I like sitting IN my car, not ON it. It feels weird and is probably why I always miss the sunroof in the 1M and don't notice the lack thereof in the M2 (cause my head feels so close to the roof in the 1M).

The next thing I notice is the steering. Freaking wonderful in the 1M. The M2 is on its snow tires right now and they are over inflated by 3psi (pending the cold that ill hit here shortly). Therefore the M2 steering feels so over boosted and unnatural it is unreal. I need to let some pressure out - but even then, and even with the standard tires. the electric steering of the M2, is no fun compared to the 1M.

and then I clutch in... oh my, so wonderful, the engine does not rev unnaturally, GAWD I hate rev match! Soo nice not to have it - soo nice, that for a minute, I think, should I code it out of the M2 in spite of the drawbacks? (to be fair, based on a thread about how to shift a 6 speed manual, I'm not doing it right - or the way most people do it - I clutch in while slowing down). But I simply HATE that feature and immediately love the 1M for not having it.)

Then I go to make a call... but the damn iDrive has not paired my phone nor updated the phonebook. Not so with the M2 which almost immediate. I miss the fancy features of the M2 in terms of making a call quickly. I certainly don't miss the Apple Play (shut off day#1) and now Pandora and Spotify taking their time loading up when I plug into the M2. And while I still am THRILLED to have the iDrive in the 1M, the slowness of connecting hurts.

Of course, if I want to listen to music - say on my iPhone and shuffle a playlist, I can do that about 10x faster in the 1M than the M2. Why BMW makes it harder with each revision of iDrive to just play a playlist is beyond me. Heck, in fact, many times, I can't even get the M2 to play music on my iPhone!

Then I hit some of the Chicago area roads and wow - the 1M is so much more compliant. How/why did they make the M2 ride so bad compared to the 1M? I'm bouncing all day long in the M2, but the 1M just feels amazing - so perfect.

Finally I get home and I'm wondering, what was missing? Ahhh, the sound.... the M2 (with active sound) is so amazing - heck, even without it, it starts up so nice (neighborhood 16 year old said "I know every morning when you go to work - that car sounds so good when you start it")

I got home and thought - if BMW could combine the great features of both of these cars, we would have the most perfect BMW....

You should try one of the manual seats in your 1M. Much lower seating position about 1 3/8 lower. I was in the market for a used 1M and drove the power seat model and it was noticeable how high you sit. Thanks for the write up!

[horsepower_and_hounds]

Originally Posted by nachob

You should try one of the manual seats in your 1M. Much lower seating position about 1 3/8 lower. I was in the market for a used 1M and drove the power seat model and it was noticeable how high you sit. Thanks for the write up!

Yea a set of nice low racing seats with the M performance stripe....

[nachob]

Originally Posted by m2ruder

Yea a set of nice low racing seats with the M performance stripe....

: )

Yes those are nice too but I meant the stock 1M, 135i, 128i manual seats that come in no-nav 1Ms sit quite a bit lower and they slide forward and backward faster for rear seat access. That's what I meant.

[VR-Tech]

Originally Posted by champignon

I love my 1M also, although I don't drive it nearly enough, especially since it is just one of several "summer cars" for me. I also love my 135is convertible, which is truly really special.

I test drove an M2 yesterday (see my post in the 1M forum) and could have traded my 135i coupe in on it, were we not $5K apart on the numbers, most of which was due to options on the M2 that I did not want and would not pay for (Executive package, sunroof, and a bunch of black grills and other overpriced "candy").

I believe we would have made a deal on a base model if I liked the color. Perhaps that will happen in the not too distant future.

Can you tell me more about why do you like the or find special of the i35is?

[champignon]

Originally Posted by VR-Tech

Can you tell me more about why do you like the or find special of the i35is?

The 135is was a limited edition, USA-only car, with a production run of fewer vehicles than even the 1M. One can argue that most of what makes a 135is (in comparison to the 135i) could be accomplished simply by purchasing the components and adding them on to a 135i. This is essentially true, although I believe that the PPK2 that is on these cars is no longer available, so you can do the PPK1 ECU flash, but you can't add on the extra cooler that was part of the PPK2 package since the cooler is no longer available for sale, since the PPK2 package is not for sale anymore.

The 135is is a package where, in my opinion only, the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. It's what BMW used to build all the time and what they can't seem to pull off anymore, that is a car that is fun to drive.

The 135is has a rather unique exhaust note; my 135i coupe, which has had the PPK flash done to it, produces the extra 20 HP but does not make this exhaust note, although the exhaust note changed somewhat after the flash. I think the exhaust note of the 135is is more unique than even that from the 1M.

The wheels are very nice :-)

The entire experience of driving this car is really special and I am not sure exactly how I can explain it, but it is special.

Also, there is a rarity factor; my car, for example, is one of 3 produced that was a 6MT manual convertible with a red coral leather interior with a black exterior. There were only something like 42 6MT 135is convertibles produced, period, so any one of them would be rather rare.

The car is tight, powerful, has nimble and responsive hydraulic steering, with driver feedback, lacking on every electric rack I have experienced including the M2 and all the current model 2, 3, and 5 series cars I have had as loaners (quite a few of each other than for the 2 series of which I have only driven a 228ix and a 230i).

When you put the top down, or even when it is up, you can hear that hypnotic exhaust note coupled with a very powerful and responsive car that gives you the sort of driving experience that BMW used to give routinely, but which now almost never does.

Did I answer your question?

ADDENDUM: I should add that the 135i, on which the 135is is based, is no slouch of a car, itself. It is the last of the breed of what I consider to be a BMW sports sedan that is true to its "roots" or lineage going back to the 1500, 1600, 2000, and 2002. It's an analogue car, with hydraulic power steering, and in its 6MT iteration, a blast to drive, even in stock form. The hydraulic power steering in ANY E82-E88 1-Series car is superior in the sense of feedback and road feel to ANY current production BMW, including the entire M-Series, in my not-so-humble opinion.

[VR-Tech]

Originally Posted by champignon

The 135is was a limited edition, USA-only car, with a production run of fewer vehicles than even the 1M. One can argue that most of what makes a 135is (in comparison to the 135i) could be accomplished simply by purchasing the components and adding them on to a 135i. This is essentially true, although I believe that the PPK2 that is on these cars is no longer available, so you can do the PPK1 ECU flash, but you can't add on the extra cooler that was part of the PPK2 package since the cooler is no longer available for sale, since the PPK2 package is not for sale anymore.

The 135is is a package where, in my opinion only, the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. It's what BMW used to build all the time and what they can't seem to pull off anymore, that is a car that is fun to drive.

The 135is has a rather unique exhaust note; my 135i coupe, which has had the PPK flash done to it, produces the extra 20 HP but does not make this exhaust note, although the exhaust note changed somewhat after the flash. I think the exhaust note of the 135is is more unique than even that from the 1M.

The wheels are very nice :-)

The entire experience of driving this car is really special and I am not sure exactly how I can explain it, but it is special.

Also, there is a rarity factor; my car, for example, is one of 3 produced that was a 6MT manual convertible with a red coral leather interior with a black exterior. There were only something like 42 6MT 135is convertibles produced, period, so any one of them would be rather rare.

The car is tight, powerful, has nimble and responsive hydraulic steering, with driver feedback, lacking on every electric rack I have experienced including the M2 and all the current model 2, 3, and 5 series cars I have had as loaners (quite a few of each other than for the 2 series of which I have only driven a 228ix and a 230i).

When you put the top down, or even when it is up, you can hear that hypnotic exhaust note coupled with a very powerful and responsive car that gives you the sort of driving experience that BMW used to give routinely, but which now almost never does.

Did I answer your question?

ADDENDUM: I should add that the 135i, on which the 135is is based, is no slouch of a car, itself. It is the last of the breed of what I consider to be a BMW sports sedan that is true to its "roots" or lineage going back to the 1500, 1600, 2000, and 2002. It's an analogue car, with hydraulic power steering, and in its 6MT iteration, a blast to drive, even in stock form. The hydraulic power steering in ANY E82-E88 1-Series car is superior in the sense of feedback and road feel to ANY current production BMW, including the entire M-Series, in my not-so-humble opinion.

Yes, thanks man. After I sold my M4 and my M2 due to having new member of the family, I felt I needed sports wheels. I ended up purchasing a 135IS. I frankly didn't know much about them till I saw it. I felt conflicted because the car was very low priced (21k), and the enjoyment was close to my M2 in which I payed 61k. I felt that perhaps i was delusional, but glad to know that indeed this car was indeed special. Unlike you, I couldn't find a manual one, those going for considerable more money than the DCT. Still what a fun little car.

[champignon]

Originally Posted by VR-Tech

Yes, thanks man. After I sold my M4 and my M2 do to new member of the family, I felt I needed sports wheels. I ended up purchasing a 135IS. I frankly didn't know much about them till I saw it. I felt conflicted because the car was very low priced (21k) by the enjoyment was close to my M2 in which I payed 61k. I felt that perhaps i was delusional, but glad to know that indeed this car was indeed special. Unlike you, I coulnt find a manual one, those going for considerable more money than the DCT. Still what a fun little car.

When I went in for my test drive of the M2 this past week, I had previously discussed my little "stable" of cars with the BMW salesman, and which of those I might consider trading in towards an M2. Initially I had considered trading in the 135is convertible, primarily because it is a convertible and I don't get the chance to drive it that much, not living in S. California or another place with the right sort of climate. Then I drove the car (135is convertible) the day before my appointment to go to the dealer, and I immediately remembered why I had bought the car and why I could not sell it. So then it became a question of trading in my 135i Coupe, somewhat performance-modified, in on the M2. My 135i coupe isn't even here in town, it's at my primary residence 2.5 hours drive away in the mountains, so I would have had to make a trip to go get it, was a deal about to happen.

This all became moot by virtue of the fact that the M2 in question was loaded up with stuff that I did not want and would not pay for (black grills everywhere; executive package; sunroof) ballooning the MSRP north of $58K, plus I was offered a very mediocre trade in value on the 135i coupe.

The decision made itself :-)

I would under the right set of circumstances trade my 135i coupe in on the right M2 at the right price, but we were so far apart when the "negotiations" started that I told the salesman at the outset that we were wasting our time and should just end it. He insisted that I stick around for several rounds of the old "good cop, bad cop" routine, with the salesman as the good cop and the sales manager (unseen in the back) as the bad cop. I've been around the block a few times too many with car dealerships for this work with me, plus, since I don't finance, there's no room for game playing with "so much a month" with selling me a car.

The M2 is a very nice car. Unfortunately, it is going to depreciate fairly rapidly like most BMWs, so you have to factor that into any purchase decision. Much of the depreciation is already over with, with my 1-Series cars, and a lot of it was paid for by the owners before me. Maybe it is just time to enjoy what we have?

[VR-Tech]

Originally Posted by champignon

When I went in for my test drive of the M2 this past week, I had previously discussed my little "stable" of cars with the BMW salesman, and which of those I might consider trading in towards an M2. Initially I had considered trading in the 135is convertible, primarily because it is a convertible and I don't get the chance to drive it that much, not living in S. California or another place with the right sort of climate. Then I drove the car (135is convertible) the day before my appointment to go to the dealer, and I immediately remembered why I had bought the car and why I could not sell it. So then it became a question of trading in my 135i Coupe, somewhat performance-modified, in on the M2. My 135i coupe isn't even here in town, it's at my primary residence 2.5 hours drive away in the mountains, so I would have had to make a trip to go get it, was a deal about to happen.

This all became moot by virtue of the fact that the M2 in question was loaded up with stuff that I did not want and would not pay for (black grills everywhere; executive package; sunroof) ballooning the MSRP north of $58K, plus I was offered a very mediocre trade in value on the 135i coupe.

The decision made itself :-)

I would under the right set of circumstances trade my 135i coupe in on the right M2 at the right price, but we were so far apart when the "negotiations" started that I told the salesman at the outset that we were wasting our time and should just end it. He insisted that I stick around for several rounds of the old "good cop, bad cop" routine, with the salesman as the good cop and the sales manager (unseen in the back) as the bad cop. I've been around the block a few times too many with car dealerships for this work with me, plus, since I don't finance, there's no room for game playing with "so much a month" with selling me a car.

The M2 is a very nice car. Unfortunately, it is going to depreciate fairly rapidly like most BMWs, so you have to factor that into any purchase decision. Much of the depreciation is already over with, with my 1-Series cars, and a lot of it was paid for by the owners before me. Maybe it is just time to enjoy what we have?

I sympathise on the trading situation. When I went to get my M2, I brought in my 2008 E92 M3. By that time I have already sold my M4. I loved the E92 but it was out of warranty and figure why not get the M2 and not have to worry warranty of the M3. Well, they offered me basically an absurdly low amount for it. So I left the dealer and decided to sell it privately, once sold I got the M2. I don't really see the benefit of trading cars with the dealer quite frankly.

[champignon]

Originally Posted by VR-Tech

I sympathise on the trading situation. When I went to get my M2, I brought in my 2008 E92 M3. By that time I have already sold my M4. I loved the E92 but it was out of warranty and figure why not get the M2 and not have to worry warranty of the M3. Well, they offered me basically an absurdly low amount for it. So I left the dealer and decided to sell it privately, once sold I got the M2. I don't really see the benefit of trading cars with the dealer quite frankly.

It all depends on where you live and the laws regarding the sales taxes/registration taxes owed.

In Idaho, they take the trade in value, subtract it from the sales price of the new car, and you only pay sales taxes on the balance. Of course, this is some BS thing that the car dealers negotiated with the state to force most people to trade their cars into the dealer instead of selling the used car privately.

So, let's play with numbers. In round figures, my 2013 135i coupe is worth around $20,000 according to KBB and NADA and the other pricing engines. The sales tax rate where I live is 6% on automobiles. What this means is that if I get a $20K trade in value from the dealer, there is $1200 less in sales taxes that I need to pay if I do the trade in to the dealer. If I sell the car privately, I need to get at least $1200 more for it before I gain anything from a private sale. I think I could get, maybe, $23,000 from a private buyer who is highly motivated to buy my car. So, the most I could possibly gain from selling privately is around $1800. Balance this against all the hassles of privately selling your vehicle; the test drives, the assholes who answer your ad on Craigslist who don't show up, the scammers, all of that. And for what? Maybe $1800 more, and this is not without risk.

I value my time. Dealing with assholes and scammers is not worth my time. Maybe after 2 or 3 or 4 weekends of effort, I gain the extra $1800, and maybe I don't.

In my state, if you can get an acceptable trade in value from the dealer, it is not worth the effort to me to go private party.

My understanding is that there are states that do the same thing as my state, Idaho, and others like California where you have to pay all of the sales tax on the new car and the trade in gets you nothing, other than what they pay you for it.

So that is the explanation, it depends on your state and where you live and the tax laws in your state.

[VR-Tech]

Originally Posted by champignon

It all depends on where you live and the laws regarding the sales taxes/registration taxes owed.

In Idaho, they take the trade in value, subtract it from the sales price of the new car, and you only pay sales taxes on the balance. Of course, this is some BS thing that the car dealers negotiated with the state to force most people to trade their cars into the dealer instead of selling the used car privately.

So, let's play with numbers. In round figures, my 2013 135i coupe is worth around $20,000 according to KBB and NADA and the other pricing engines. The sales tax rate where I live is 6% on automobiles. What this means is that if I get a $20K trade in value from the dealer, there is $1200 less in sales taxes that I need to pay if I do the trade in to the dealer. If I sell the car privately, I need to get at least $1200 more for it before I gain anything from a private sale. I think I could get, maybe, $23,000 from a private buyer who is highly motivated to buy my car. So, the most I could possibly gain from selling privately is around $1800. Balance this against all the hassles of privately selling your vehicle; the test drives, the assholes who answer your ad on Craigslist who don't show up, the scammers, all of that. And for what? Maybe $1800 more, and this is not without risk.

I value my time. Dealing with assholes and scammers is not worth my time. Maybe after 2 or 3 or 4 weekends of effort, I gain the extra $1800, and maybe I don't.

In my state, if you can get an acceptable trade in value from the dealer, it is not worth the effort to me to go private party.

My understanding is that there are states that do the same thing as my state, Idaho, and others like California where you have to pay all of the sales tax on the new car and the trade in gets you nothing, other than what they pay you for it.

So that is the explanation, it depends on your state and where you live and the tax laws in your state.

I see, yes California is becoming a nightmare for purchasing vehicles. This year car sales taxes is 9.25 and registration fees went up, as well as gas prices. There are a lot of car enthusiast here in LA, so I haven't have any problems selling M cars. But seriously, I'm thinking moving out of the state, just everything is getting too expensive

[JimmyS]

Steering in sport+ is ok, but I have yet to experience an EPS system better than the 911. It’s the main thing I miss.

Unfortunately winter has decided to come to Chicago, and sport+ is not usable aon the streets anymore. Time to park the M2 for winter soon .

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by nachob

: )

Yes those are nice too but I meant the stock 1M, 135i, 128i manual seats that come in no-nav 1Ms sit quite a bit lower and they slide forward and backward faster for rear seat access. That's what I meant.

[bobert]

Originally Posted by champignon

The M2 is a very nice car. Unfortunately, it is going to depreciate fairly rapidly like most BMWs, so you have to factor that into any purchase decision. Much of the depreciation is already over with, with my 1-Series cars, and a lot of it was paid for by the owners before me. Maybe it is just time to enjoy what we have?

Actually, I don't have to factor depreciation into my purchase decisions, because almost all new cars depreciate fairly rapidly (unless you're buying a Ferrari or an extremely limited-production Porsche - none of which are in my ballpark ), plus I just don't care, considering I buy what I want with zero consideration towards its next owner, should there even be one.

[champignon]

Originally Posted by VR-Tech

I see, yes California is becoming a nightmare for purchasing vehicles. This year car sales taxes is 9.25 and registration fees went up, as well as gas prices. There are a lot of car enthusiast here in LA, so I haven't have any problems selling M cars. But seriously, I'm thinking moving out of the state, just everything is getting too expensive

10% of your state has already moved to Idaho, and the other 90% is thinking about it, unfortunately :-)

[champignon]

Originally Posted by bobert

Actually, I don't have to factor depreciation into my purchase decisions, because almost all new cars depreciate fairly rapidly (unless you're buying a Ferrari or an extremely limited-production Porsche - none of which are in my ballpark ), plus I just don't care, considering I buy what I want with zero consideration towards its next owner, should there even be one.

I don't worry about it too much, myself, or I wouldn't own FOUR BMWs